Breastfeeding and the breast

[AdamP88]

I think men are only attracted to female breasts because society makes them seem so forbidden.

I think it’s a little more than that. Lol

To answer the OP, I don’t think the church viewed it as an issue until more modern times. Ireland was a Catholic country since the Middle of the first milennium yet we have paintings of Irish woman bare chested, in front of family and friends, feeding the babies. I think covering up, insofar as it’s reasonable is grand, but the comfort of mother and child is the main thing.

I don’t think it’s really a moral issue.

 

[Camehome4john6]

I never had anything showing whenever I breastfed. The shirt covered the top and the baby covered the bottom. I pretty much nursed anywhere and most of the time you wouldn’t be able to tell whether I was nursing or just cuddling a sleepy baby close.
Sometimes privacy can be helpful to keep baby from being distracted or maybe allow mom to relax more.

 

[Welshrabbit]

“Booby burka,” LOL!!!

 

[midori]

There are more “Nursing Madonnas” in art than you can shake a stick at.

For most of history, breastfeeding wasn’t a big deal. Because that’s what they’re for. Ankles and waists and other things that were normally covered up were often racier. It’s not until relatively recently that breasts have been as hyper-sexualized as much as they are. So it’s a cultural thing, rather than a theological thing.

In the Sistine Chapel last year, Pope Francis sez—

“Babies have their own dialect,” he added. “If one starts to cry the others will follow, like in an orchestra.” He said that if the babies were “starting a concert” of crying because they were hungry, mothers should “go ahead and feed them,” for this too is a “language of love.”

and the previous year–

"As the sounds of crying grew louder, the Pope joked that the concert had begun. The babies are crying, he said, because they are in an unfamiliar place, or because they had to get up early, or sometimes simply because they hear another child crying. Jesus did just the same, Pope Francis said, adding that he liked to think of Our Lord’s first sermon as his crying in the stable.
“And if your children are crying because they are hungry, the Pope told the mothers present, then go ahead and feed them, just as Mary breastfed Jesus.”

But because it’s a culture thing, rather than a theological thing— you’ll have a variety of responses if you try it yourself.

Me, I never nursed in public, because it wasn’t something I was personally comfortable with. I always fed my baby in the car, or in the restroom, or wherever. But other moms were indignant that they were expected balance on a germy toilet to go feed their kid, just to avoid offending someone else’s delicate sensibilities.

Nursing covers or throwing a light blanket over everything are a good thing that straddles both worlds. Not every baby is happy eating with his head covered up, though.

So, if someone wanted to nurse in church, I’d probably encourage them to go to the cry room and do it discreetly, rather than sitting in the first row at church, fiddling with non-nursing clothes, and no cover-up.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with breastfeeding in public. It is just our society, which at its root is a Puritan society, that imagines it that way. A shawl might be called for, but not at the expense of comfort either of mother or baby. Granted, there are teenage boys who might be sent into paroxysms of lust at the slightest provocation, but that is just a reality of hormones at that awkward stage of life, and it takes far less than an exposed breast to send them into this state. Aside from that, public exposed breastfeeding is utterly unproblematical. For my part, I’m just happy to see that a normal, healthy bodily function is playing out in the way nature intended, and that the baby is being contently fed. It’s not an erotic thing.

 

[blackforest]

That’s really weird! Here in the U.S., I meet both liberal and conservative women defending a woman’s right to feed her baby any time and anywhere. All 50 states (finally!) endorse it as a legal right.

Traditionally, theologically, etc, would a woman exposing her breast to feed her child be considered immodest? I don’t want opinions, I want the facts.

I respect what you’re trying to do here, but it’s not as clear-cut as you’re hoping. The FACT is that the Magisterium is silent and our current Pope supports the practice.

Another fact: The Church doesn’t speak about breasts themselves because how and whether they’re exposed, and how and whether they’re considered immodest, is a matter of culture, not theology. The Zulu of South Africa don’t bat an eye at exposed breasts, but I don’t recommend attempting it in Iran.

With these factors in mind, we’re only left with our opinions.

My opinion: I can’t link the issue to modesty because modesty is about sexuality. A baby eating from a breast is no more sexual than a grown man eating a scone at Starbucks.

 

[Episcopalian]

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I visited Ethiopia recently so I had to share! This is a mural in an ancient Coptic Church of Mary feeding baby Jesus and her breast is out for the world to see.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Just be respectful of cultural and societal norms, as with all things. My wife breastfeeds anytime our babes need nourishment, and uses a cover, whether it is in Church, the car (not driving…), or wherever. Fair or not, it does draw attention, attention she does not want for her or our children, so she prefers to cover. Some may choose not to, and that is there prerogative. I would not complain about leering or staring however, even though breastfeeding women hold the moral high-ground there. Reality is what it is, and some rude folks will stare on occasion, because of where certain societies are. You can rail against the lack of the ideal, or deal in what we currently have while striving to move society towards the ideal.

I never cared for the “its perfectly natural” argument however, because there are lots of perfectly natural things that we choose not to do in public. That’s how I ended up with my children to begin with… I think there are better arguments.

The Church is not going to levy mandates about how to do something from 1500 years ago. Societies today are so diverse to say nothing of 1000+ years ago. But as to the morality of breastfeeding in general? I think you’ll find both the Church, history, and modern science are on your side.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yes, that’s a perfectly normal Virgo Lactans mural, and if you google on “Virgo Lactans” or “Nursing Madonna” you will get dozens of paintings and other depictions in art of Mary nursing Jesus. It was a popular subject for at least 6 or 7 centuries.

 

[on_the_hill]

Frustrating as it may be, sometimes the Church (wisely) chooses not to comment.

I have a sense that the breastfeeding discussions don’t happen much outside of the West. We had decades of bottle-formula fed babies and breastfeeding (public or not) is relatively new to most of us in the U.S. When our first child was born 20 years ago, breastfeeding was unfamiliar enough to new parents that hospitals employed lactation consultants to teach new moms how to do it. For all I know, hospitals still do this.

There’s a point to all this. Just be patient.

I bet that breastfeeding wasn’t a ‘lost art’ in most other parts of the globe. Most of the world’s populations don’t live with industrialized food production, including baby formula.

For the universal Church to have made rules about breastfeeding might have satisfied Western mores but would likely have made life very difficult for everyone else.

In other words, this is another example of the Church shepherding all people, not just those of us United Staters in the country formerly known as America.

 

[on_the_hill]

And I sort of prefer it if breastfeeding moms don’t do it in the pew during Mass but instead go to the vestibule (where CC TVs broadcast the Mass).
I get uncomfortable worrying that I might make them uncomfortable if I glance over and notice what’s happening. My own foible, I suppose.

 

[Dolphin]

I find it very laughable when people say breasts have no sexual attraction to them unless we make them something hidden. These same people make the argument that toplessness wouldn’t cause any temptation breast aren’t a sex organ and thus aren’t tempting to lust… these people just want to see topless woman and are making an excuse for it. Don’t kid yourself.

I’ve seen plenty of woman breastfeeding during mass in the back. It’s good they brought their young kids to mass! We should encourage this never shame it!

 

[babochka]

When our first child was born 20 years ago, breastfeeding was unfamiliar enough to new parents that hospitals employed lactation consultants to teach new moms how to do it. For all I know, hospitals still do this.

I used a lactation consultant with my sixth child. Even though I was very experienced and had nursed five children into toddlerhood and beyond, this child had difficulty latching and I had no experience with that. The lactation consultant, a highly trained professional, was able to identify a physical issue and help me and the baby get a good latch. My mother and grandmother also breastfed their babies without difficulty, so they had no similar experience. My doctor, knowing that it was not her area of expertise, referred me to the lactation consultant. (The problem was a posterior tongue tie, which was not easily identified. It was eventually cut,)

 

[NeedANap]

Lactation Consultants are very high in demand in the States. Breastfeeding is becoming more popular and there are still plenty of women who have no experience and may need guidance or have difficulty.

I, personally, rarely use covers for nursing, but I do have clothes that are made for breastfeeding so they have discreet openings and built in modesty covers.

 

[whatistrue]

I find it very laughable when people say breasts have no sexual attraction to them

Really? Even limiting the term “people” in this context to adult heterosexual males, I find it easy to believe that there are some who do not consider breasts to be arousing. In the interest of full disclosure, I am myself a member of the defined demographic and I personally do find breasts attractive in that way, but I have heard of and actually known members of the group who think exactly as described - one way I have heard it put is “breasts are for baby’s pleasure, (redacted) are for men’s”.

 

[Aquinas11]

what does the Chruch say on breasts if anything?

Like asking what does Church say about mothers staying home and raising kids.

This isn’t directed at OP, but the topic does expose how far off modern culture has become.

 

[aroosi]

In Italy there are plenty of Madonna’s paintings called ‘Madonna del Latte’ literally ‘Madonna of the Milk’, and is the Blessed Mother breastfeeding Baby Jesus. I think this was a very common devotion especially in the past when problems with breastfeeding could not be easily solved (think about lack of antibiotics if the woman got mastitis or women without milk production unable to feed their babies if they could not hire a breastfeeding nanny).
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[Lifeisbeautiful3]

I find it very laughable when people say breasts have no sexual attraction to them unless we make them something hidden. These same people make the argument that toplessness wouldn’t cause any temptation breast aren’t a sex organ and thus aren’t tempting to lust… these people just want to see topless woman and are making an excuse for it. Don’t kid yourself.

@Dolphin Imagine living in a community where everyone was topless all the time. The novelty of ‘catching a glimpse’ would go away and the attribution of a breast as a sexual organ would change to the point that seeing a ‘boob’ is no big deal.

 

[whatistrue]

Imagine living…

I never stated or implied otherwise. My post was a reply to a general statement and was related to the current culture in which I live. There are many cultures, both past and present, where something similar to what you describe is the norm, but I deliberately did not “go there” as it was not germane to my point.

 

[phil19034]

Ok, so what does the Chruch say on breasts if anything? Traditionally, theologically, etc, would a woman exposing her breast to feed her child be considered immodest? I don’t want opinions, I want the facts. Have Church Fathers, Doctors, Popes, Saints, talked about this at all? I want to know what (if) the Church has any sort of stance on this.

The Church really isn’t going to say much here because this is a cultural issue.

The only thing I can say about breasts is that there is (at least in people attracted to women) a possible carry over from our infancy. Infants are subconsciously attracted to the breast for their source of food.

In a lot of men, that subconscious attraction does not go away. I think it’s also important to remember that in centuries past, it was not uncommon for adults (esp when sick) to drink breast milk from a nursing mother.

Today, most people would never drink breast milk, so the subconscious attraction for men (and lesbians) seems to only be expressed sexually. PERHAPS in years past, when a man was able to drink from his wife’s breast, it make the act less lustful. Also, it wasn’t uncommon to drink from the mother’s (or nurse maid’s) breast for several years into later childhood.

Anyway, I personally think that the reason why breasts have become objects of lust for men isn’t because they are hidden, but because men & older children do not drink breast milk today.