Breastfeeding/nfp question

[28562]

Just curious everyone…

My wife is 8 weeks post partum. She is nursing the baby exclusively. With the three past pregnancies, we have not been concerned about getting pregnant again while nursing. Everything we read says that there is only a 2% chance of getting pregnant if nursing every 4 hrs during the day and 6 hrs at night and that is what we have always counted on. This time, we feel sure that we have hit our kid limit (at least for now) and are scared of getting pregnant again. We are nervous about the same rule of thumb that we have followed each time and we have not ‘renewed our vows’ since he was born. There has been two times in the past 3 weeks when her alarm did not wake her up to nurse the baby (he is sleeping through the night) and she went 7-8 hours between feedings. Other than those two times, she has fed him within the 6 hr window at night and no more than 3-4 hrs during the day.

How concerned should we be about those two times over 6 hrs messing up her body’s natural infertility? Should we be ‘safe’ or is more abstinence necessary? I understand that nothing but abstinence is 100% effective, but I’m just looking for a little direction here…thanks in advance…

 

[Em_in_FL]

Every woman’s body is unique.
Some women will BF exclusively, even following all the rules of ecological BF’ing, and will still have their fertility return early. Others will quit BF’ing entirely and won’t have a return of fertility for almost 2 years! We’re all unique, no rhyme or reason to it.

So, what to do? Re-read those NFP books. Re-read the chapters on postpartum charting. Find some additional books and read those too. Maybe set up a follow-up course with your NFP teacher to go over the postpartum rules.

On a personal note, I’ve always had my fertility return while BF’ing (probably because I’ve always ended up pumping when I had to go back to work), but regardless I was always able to effectively chart my symptoms and detect my returning fertility quite accurately (times 4 kids!)… so it’s definitely possible!

 

[anp1215]

Yes, as PP said, everyone is different. My good friend was very surprised to have her period return after only 6 weeks post partum, while she was exclusively breastfeeding. And I do mean exclusive, no bottles or pacifier or anything. However, she did not become pregnant with #2 until #1 was a year old, and I know she wasn’t trying to avoid pregnancy. Even though her period had returned, I think maybe her fertility held off.

So it can go both ways. Fertility can return even if a woman hasn’t had a period, and periods can return without fertility! Everyone is different.

 

[The_Bucket]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactational_amenorrhea

I understand that Wikipedia is not to be used for research papers, but it works here. Suffice to say that 98% is typical use and 99.5% is perfect use. It’s actually one of the best methods of birth control/spacing out there when it comes to the difference between perfect/typical use.

As you probably well know, “typical use” means you don’t always meet all the criteria, but you usually do. When it comes to ABC, the studies are talking about a missed pill or a condom breaking. When it comes to NFP, it’s having relations on a fertile day. That’s why the typical use/perfect use disparity is so wide with most forms of NFP. You might miss a pill with ABC, but you could have sex on an otherwise infertile day anyway. User failure with NFP means you’re definitely having relations on a potentially fertile day.

At any rate, you’re definitely falling in the typical use area. As long as her cycles have not restarted, I’d say you’re good up to six months. Just don’t make it anywhere close to a habit to miss those feedings. And once you hit that six months, it’s game over on LAM. There’s no reliable information and everyone’s mileage varies. With our second, my wife’s fertility did not return for 13 months even though our daughter started eating some solids at about seven months. (Our first was born premature so we couldn’t use LAM) I know some women go longer and some go shorter. As the method teaches, we dropped LAM at six months and had to go by Phase I rules.

So you’re in the 98% camp my friend, be at ease. But make sure she’s paying attention as much as she can to her signs and drop LAM if she has bleeding after 56 days or if six months go by.

 

[capablanca911]

My wife got pregnant with our second child breastfeeding.

 

[Windmill]

My wife does not see a return of fertility for 2 years after having a baby (just had #4). However, we conceived #3 unknowingly and were already into the second trimester when she decided to take a pregnancy test. She had not had any periods, but we conceived at 23 months post-partum.

What method are you using? If STM, I know that the CCL book has an extensive chapter on return of fertility.

 

[The_Bucket]

My wife does not see a return of fertility for 2 years after having a baby (just had #4). However, we conceived #3 unknowingly and were already into the second trimester when she decided to take a pregnancy test. She had not had any periods, but we conceived at 23 months post-partum.

What method are you using? If STM, I know that the CCL book has an extensive chapter on return of fertility.

Well you obviously hit on the first window. That’s why the limit for LAM’s effectiveness is 6 months. After that you’re far less likely to get a “warning period.” In fact, the likelihood of such an anovulatory period declines the further you progress from six months.

LAM is only effective for up to six months postpartum and the rules are the rules. If she has bleeding after 56 days, consider it the start of a new cycle and LAM is over. If six months pass, it’s over. Effectiveness falls from 99.5% perfect and 98% typical to who-the-heck-knows after six months or once a cycle has started. Yes, the cycles MAY have a too-short luteal phase, but there’s no way to know that in advance.

 

[mdleagedguy]

It didn’t bring ovulation back for my wife when this happened, but as has been said, everyone is different. One thing you may want to try is to use one of the ovulation tests available in the drug store. If it’s even very weakly colored on the part that tells if ovulation is occurring, you know there’s a chance. There are also ovulation microscopes that use saliva. It forms a crystal pattern when ovulation is returning. Don’t wait for a full-blown crystal pattern. A few small crystals indicate ovulation will occur soon. It’s pretty inexpensive too if you buy online.

walgreens.com/store/c/fairhaven-health-fertile-focus-personal-ovulation-microscope/ID=prod6058329-product?ext=gooSexual_Wellness_PLA_Fertility/Ovulation_prod6058329_pla&adtype={adtype}&Kpid=prod6058329&sst=0816bed3-06ff-f749-22e7-000045368960

 

[28562]

So today is 55 days and my wife had a little bleeding this am…so I guess we should keep abstaining to be safe?

 

[twoangels]

Just curious everyone…

My wife is 8 weeks post partum. She is nursing the baby exclusively. With the three past pregnancies, we have not been concerned about getting pregnant again while nursing. Everything we read says that there is only a 2% chance of getting pregnant if nursing every 4 hrs during the day and 6 hrs at night and that is what we have always counted on. This time, we feel sure that we have hit our kid limit (at least for now) and are scared of getting pregnant again. We are nervous about the same rule of thumb that we have followed each time and we have not ‘renewed our vows’ since he was born. There has been two times in the past 3 weeks when her alarm did not wake her up to nurse the baby (he is sleeping through the night) and she went 7-8 hours between feedings. Other than those two times, she has fed him within the 6 hr window at night and no more than 3-4 hrs during the day.

How concerned should we be about those two times over 6 hrs messing up her body’s natural infertility? Should we be ‘safe’ or is more abstinence necessary? I understand that nothing but abstinence is 100% effective, but I’m just looking for a little direction here…thanks in advance…

I used LAM with charting. Ecological breastfeeding seemed unrealistic, so the LAM rules seemed helpful. Things became much easier when I began cycling again. I don’t know anyone who finds the time of breastfeeding with NFP easy, but it should not have to mean total abstinence.

 

[Em_in_FL]

So today is 55 days and my wife had a little bleeding this am…so I guess we should keep abstaining to be safe?

Abstaining is always safest… but I still highly recommend re-educating yourself on your NFP method as much as possible!!!

 

[28562]

Abstaining is always safest… but I still highly recommend re-educating yourself on your NFP method as much as possible!!!

We are trying to…but we can’t find a local instructor. We wanted to do Marquette this time and I guess it will have to be self taught online…Any tips or links(I can’t get the pdf instructions on their website to load…)?

 

[The_Bucket]

So today is 55 days and my wife had a little bleeding this am…so I guess we should keep abstaining to be safe?

55 days is not 56 days. But you should wait a few days to see what comes of it. Postpartum bleeding is normal for a couple of months. After that it STILL might be just some postpartum bleeding but it’s much tougher to tell, hence the rule.

So look, 55 days is not 56 days. There are reasons for the rules. Wait a bit to see what comes of this latest episode. If it goes away quickly then you’re fine. If not, you’ll need to switch to something else posthaste; preferably something that works with the basic infertile pattern of some mucus because that’s typical with postpartum women.

I’m far from an expert but sometimes I think I know too much about this stuff.

 

[Em_in_FL]

We are trying to…but we can’t find a local instructor. We wanted to do Marquette this time and I guess it will have to be self taught online…Any tips or links(I can’t get the pdf instructions on their website to load…)?

What method were you originally taught?
It is often challenging (not impossible) to learn a new method during the postpartum months (which are the most challenging to understand)…

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I agree with Em regarding refamiliarizing yourself with NFP.

Creighton and Billings both state that along with breastfeeding, couples should still chart.

Sympto-thermal method advocates for Ecological breast feeding…I don’t know the method except from reading about it occasionally, but I’m not sure if one still charts during ecological breastfeeding ( I would guess yes )

You could try to learn Marquette, but most NFP methods require abstaininig until a cycle or a certain amount of time has passed. Also try using another browser to open the site, maybe that would work.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I agree with Em regarding refamiliarizing yourself with NFP.

Creighton and Billings both state that along with breastfeeding, couples should still chart.

Sympto-thermal method advocates for Ecological breast feeding…I don’t know the method except from reading about it occasionally, but I’m not sure if one still charts during ecological breastfeeding ( I would guess yes )

You could try to learn Marquette, but most NFP methods require abstaininig until a cycle or a certain amount of time has passed. Also try using another browser to open the site, maybe that would work.

Sympto-Thermal users who meticulously follow the Ecological Breastfeeding rules are allowed reprieve from charting for those 6 months of “guarantee”… beyond that, charting is required.
(Personally, I’ve never been able to follow all the rules so I’ve always charted from 2-3 weeks postpartum forward)

 

[28562]

What method were you originally taught?
It is often challenging (not impossible) to learn a new method during the postpartum months (which are the most challenging to understand)…

We have always used the ‘rhythm’ method…outdated I’m sure, but it worked well for us. Now that we are at a number of kids where we feel we don’t have ‘room for error’, we want to use something a tad more scientific, accurate, and reliable.

 

[Em_in_FL]

We have always used the ‘rhythm’ method…outdated I’m sure, but it worked well for us. Now that we are at a number of kids where we feel we don’t have ‘room for error’, we want to use something a tad more scientific, accurate, and reliable.

I recommend contacting your diocese office to see what sort of courses are locally available. It’s helpful to have a personal teacher who can answer your questions one-on-one.

If that doesn’t work out, then there are many websites with at-home-education kits available, but those are back-up plans. Find a local teacher, if at all possible.

I doubt anyone is still teaching anything called “rhythm” these days… the most common and accurate/scientific methods are:
Sympto-Thermal (many different courses under a variety of names for this method)…
Creighton
Marquette
Billings

All the best to you… prayers for you and your family!

 

[Dasi4747]

I highly recommend reading Sheila Kippleys books on Ecological breastfeeding. She is Catholic and has thoroughly researched the topic of breastfeeding and fertility. Women who practice ecological breastfeeding average 14.6 months without a return of fertility. Ecological breastfeeding is NOT the same as exclusive breastfeeding. THere are 7 rules/standards you have to follow. It is the only type of breastfeeding that is associated with long term amenorrhea.

When my first son was born I breastfed, but in a way similar to bottle feeding women (because that’s what our culture is taught and I was dumb- lol). My fertility returned at 8 months post partum. I was STILL nursing my son AT LEAST every 2 hours at night and AT LEAST every 4 hours during the day. It was not as often as he needed (I was inexperienced and didn’t have help or support with breastfeeding). IT was not enough nursing to keep my fertility at bay.

Now I have another child and know how to nurse correctly. As a newborn he nursed about every 20 minutes. This is what is normal in traditional cultures- they average about 23 minutes between nursing sessions for newborns (about 80 minutes between nursing sessions for 3 year olds). Our society makes us think breastfed babies should be fed on a schedule similar to bottle bed babies, but that is why so many in our culture fail at breastfeeding. FREQUENCY is the crucial factor for return of fertility (and milk supply- if you want to successfully breastfeed!). And if you learn to read your baby, and dont offer mother substitutes (like pacifiers, bottles, thumb-sucking) then it will be easy to nurse frequently enough to keep fertility at bay for most women.

My second child is now almost 16 months old. We followed ecological breastfeeding and still are except we have outgrown the daily nap now at this point. I have not had a period yet. Quite the change from my 8 month post partum return with my first child- and my second child doesn’t nurse as long or as much for comfort as my first child did. It is the frequency factor, as Sheila Kippley explains in her books. Ecological breastfeeders usually nurse frequently but not as long (usually 5-10 minutes at the breast). THis is what my second child does naturally.

So if you really want to try and maximize your infertility with breastfeeding, I highly recommend reading Sheilas books on Ecological breastfeeding. Again, the average return of fertility for women practicing this is 14.6 months. But there will ALWAYS be exceptions to the rule. Some women will practice eco-breastfeeding to a T and still have an early return. Other women will have an older child, down to only one nursing session a day, and still not have a period.

So, if you don’t want another child at this point, I would still use other methods of NFP in addition to breastfeeding and practice abstinence when neccessary. She can still observe her cervical mucus or try temping (although that can be hard with interrupted sleep at night by babies). Since I haven’t had a return of my cycles yet, I watch my mucus and also take note of any crampy-ness/mood swings. If I notice any of this, we practice abstinence just to be safe in case my fertility is trying to return.

Breastfeeding is God’s natural way to space babies and make sure Mom doesn’t have too much on her plate at a time. There is also the Catholic Nursing Mother’s League that has info on eco-breastfeeding. Hope that helps! catholicbreastfeeding.org/resources.html

 

[Dasi4747]

As far as post partum bleeding, I will add as far as the medical community is concerned like someone else said, anything in the first 56 days is considered post partum bleeding and not a period. I also have had random spotting with both children while breastfeeding.

However, I have always had bleeding for 7-8 weeks post partum with both my babies. I was still wearing pads with my 6 week check up with my midwife last time, and she thought by “flow” was normal. Sorry if that’s TMI. Just trying to point out that it’s really common for ladies to still be bleeding even after 6 weeks post partum.

EDIT: I may have an extra copies of some of Sheila’s books laying around the house. If you think you’d like one, send me a message, and maybe I can mail you one.