Breviaries and Offices

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Duns_Scotus

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Hello! This is my first post, so I’ll work in my ‘hi-s’ here.

Anyway, I’ll not beat about the bush. I would love to pray the traditional Daily Office and I love the structure of prayer, but, to be utterly honest, the price of the Baronius Breviary is simply beyond a lad like me. The [Latin-English, I am learning Latin, and am quite good with Classical texts, but the English texts and rubrics will be an invaluable ‘crib’ and guide] options (new - incidentally, if this is not advertising, I am not selling them though, there are some splendid prices for Latin-only breviaries, even quite obscure ones, on eBay in the UK at the minute if anyone needs one) I know of are:

Baronius Press breviary: £230, plus 25 pounds I think for the Martyrology from the Angelus Press for Prime. All the extras are lovely, plus, the new printing gives me time to drop pennies into the pot and save up!

Monastic Diurnal: Published by St. Michael’s Abbey at Farnborough. £45 plus the twenty-five for the Martyrology for Prime and that again, if, as one blogger advised, the Rule of St. Benedict is required. I am not strictly sure how the traditional Benedictine rite differs from the Roman, but, of course, it is a venerable and deeply pious Office from a great Order of faithful monks. I can’t afford this one, but much less so, and the lack of Matins, as I am studying and don’t have the immense privilege of cloistered life in the service of our Lord, may not be so bad.

Edit: Also, I’ve heard something about errors in this one? Not doctrinal, of course, but printing errors. Is this true?

Of course, I intend to get the Little Office of the BVM as soon as I can.

Therefore, that’s £275 plus shipping for one, and anywhere from £75 to £95 for the other. Of those, the less expensive one is obvious, but even that is a huge amount of money for someone, frankly, as hard-up as me! Also, is the full Breviary better?

All of these carry the baggage of shipping (I’m a Scot). Does anyone know of a less expensive way of getting a traditional Breviary in book form? If not, do you just, sorry to quote scripture, have to gird up your loins and get one?
 
Check this out. $34.99

ebay.com/itm/Divine-Office-Christian-Prayer-The-Liturgy-of-the-Hours-Music-1976-Catholic-/360476151715?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item53ee0d8fa3#ht_1787wt_1181
This is The Divine Office revised by decree of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council and published by authority of Pope Paul VI. Christian Prayer: The Liturgy of the Hours, Morning, Daytime, Evening, Night Prayer, Office of Readings, Edition with Music. Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1976. Hardcover with red edged pages and multi-color bookmarks. Previously owned and used. Cover has a bumped upper right corner and on the top (pages) there is an “E” written in ballpoint pen. Otherwise, this book is clean with no damage. Solidly bound, pages are pristine.
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I’m not affiliated in any way, I just went to ebay and checked.
 
Duns_Scotus said:
Hello! This is my first post, so I’ll work in my ‘hi-s’ here.

Anyway, I’ll not beat about the bush. I would love to pray the traditional Daily Office and I love the structure of prayer, but, to be utterly honest, the price of the Baronius Breviary is simply beyond a lad like me. The [Latin-English, I am learning Latin, and am quite good with Classical texts, but the English texts and rubrics will be an invaluable ‘crib’ and guide] options (new - incidentally, if this is not advertising, I am not selling them though, there are some splendid prices for Latin-only breviaries, even quite obscure ones, on eBay in the UK at the minute if anyone needs one) I know of are:

Baronius Press breviary: £230, plus 25 pounds I think for the Martyrology from the Angelus Press for Prime. All the extras are lovely, plus, the new printing gives me time to drop pennies into the pot and save up!

Monastic Diurnal: Published by St. Michael’s Abbey at Farnborough. £45 plus the twenty-five for the Martyrology for Prime [and that again, if, as one blogger advised, the Rule of St. Benedict is required. I am not strictly sure how the traditional Benedictine rite differs from the Roman, but, of course, it is a venerable and deeply pious Office from a great Order of faithful monks. I can’t afford this one, but much less so, and the lack of Matins, as I am studying and don’t have the immense privilege of cloistered life in the service of our Lord, may not be so bad.

Edit: Also, I’ve heard something about errors in this one? Not doctrinal, of course, but printing errors. Is this true?

Of course, I intend to get the Little Office of the BVM as soon as I can.

Therefore, that’s £275 plus shipping for one, and anywhere from £75 to £95 for the other. Of those, the less expensive one is obvious, but even that is a huge amount of money for someone, frankly, as hard-up as me! Also, is the full Breviary better?

All of these carry the baggage of shipping (I’m a Scot). Does anyone know of a less expensive way of getting a traditional Breviary in book form? If not, do you just, sorry to quote scripture, have to gird up your loins and get one?
Click to expand...
Well the first thing to understand is that the Baronious isn’t really “traditional”, it is only “pre-Vatican II”. The Roman Breviary was completely revised and made a serious break with tradition in 1910 when Pius X promulgated it and forbade the use of the previous Roman Breviary. Many of it’s “innovations” in fact set the precedent for the current 4-week Liturgy of the Hours: splitting psalms, dreaming up new antiphons with no available music for them for the new sections, killing the tradition of terminating the psalmody of Lauds with the three “Laudate” psalms (148, 149 and 150), etc.

The Monastic Diurnal is the Benedictine Office minus Matins. Note that the English translation is not an approved translation and is unsuitable for liturgical use. The Benedictine Office is still existant 1500 years later in fact there is an approved post-Vatican II adaptation with the same psalmody. I only know of a French/Latin version though.

You’re not a monastery though so you don’t need to read the Rule of St. Benedict (unless an Oblate like me) at Prime. Nor the martyrology. Don’t think monks traveled with a Martyrology when they would recite the Office while away from the abbey! Prime was often said in chapter because that’s where the martyrology and Rule would be read.

It’s a heavy Office though; 12 psalms at Matins plus long readings, Lauds is heavy with much repetition (6 psalms plus OT canticle), the minor hours are pretty repetitive too.

Really there’s nothing wrong with the 4-week current LOTH for laypeople. The Diurnal or old Roman Breviary were never intended for the laity; the LOTH was designed with diocesan clergy AND laity in mind. And to respect tradition, there are books available to allow you to chant the hours in Gregorian chant in Latin: Antiphonale Romanum II is Vespers in Latin Gregorian chant for Vespers of Sundays, feasts and solemnities, and Les Heures Gregoriennes allows you to chant all the day hours (no Office of Readings) in Gregorian chant, in either French or Latin. Both books are in Gregorian notation.

Moreover, if you really dig deeply in the LOTH, you’ll note that many ancient traditions were kept, at least as options.

I’d give it a shot. It’s much more convivial for busy laymen.
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True, and if you do have a breviary it’s great way to check you are on the right page.👍
 
Duns_Scotus said:
Hello! This is my first post, so I’ll work in my ‘hi-s’ here.

Anyway, I’ll not beat about the bush. I would love to pray the traditional Daily Office and I love the structure of prayer, but, to be utterly honest, the price of the Baronius Breviary is simply beyond a lad like me. The [Latin-English, I am learning Latin, and am quite good with Classical texts, but the English texts and rubrics will be an invaluable ‘crib’ and guide] options (new - incidentally, if this is not advertising, I am not selling them though, there are some splendid prices for Latin-only breviaries, even quite obscure ones, on eBay in the UK at the minute if anyone needs one) I know of are:

Baronius Press breviary: £230, plus 25 pounds I think for the Martyrology from the Angelus Press for Prime. All the extras are lovely, plus, the new printing gives me time to drop pennies into the pot and save up!

Monastic Diurnal: Published by St. Michael’s Abbey at Farnborough. £45 plus the twenty-five for the Martyrology for Prime [and that again, if, as one blogger advised, the Rule of St. Benedict is required. I am not strictly sure how the traditional Benedictine rite differs from the Roman, but, of course, it is a venerable and deeply pious Office from a great Order of faithful monks. I can’t afford this one, but much less so, and the lack of Matins, as I am studying and don’t have the immense privilege of cloistered life in the service of our Lord, may not be so bad.

Edit: Also, I’ve heard something about errors in this one? Not doctrinal, of course, but printing errors. Is this true?

Of course, I intend to get the Little Office of the BVM as soon as I can.

Therefore, that’s £275 plus shipping for one, and anywhere from £75 to £95 for the other. Of those, the less expensive one is obvious, but even that is a huge amount of money for someone, frankly, as hard-up as me! Also, is the full Breviary better?

All of these carry the baggage of shipping (I’m a Scot). Does anyone know of a less expensive way of getting a traditional Breviary in book form? If not, do you just, sorry to quote scripture, have to gird up your loins and get one?
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I like the Pius X Psalter so I use a breivary online. They use the Clementine Latin Vulgate with the Douay-Rheims translation, side by side. There’s only one place you can get it and it’s online. It costs about $2 per month. It’s beautiful. Here’s where to sign up: breviary.net/

They even sort out the pages for you. Before I started using this, I used the 1963 Breviary but you have to go back and forth with the pages and have to study on how to use it. It took me awhile to figure it all out.
[/quote]
 
I always enjoy discussions about the Office. Partly because I think that area of Liturgy is neglected by the majority of laymen and partly because OraLabora comes in and gives me food for thought.

Ora, if I could high jack this thread, I’d ask you to convince me to use the LOTH versus a trad Office like the MD (which is what I’m trying to wrestle with right now even though I attend an OF parish). as much as I’d love to pray in sync with mt pastor, I find the cheesy Collects and antiphons of the LoTH a hindrance to my spiritual growth.
 
Windmill said:
I always enjoy discussions about the Office. Partly because I think that area of Liturgy is neglected by the majority of laymen and partly because OraLabora comes in and gives me food for thought.

Ora, if I could high jack this thread, I’d ask you to convince me to use the LOTH versus a trad Office like the MD (which is what I’m trying to wrestle with right now even though I attend an OF parish). as much as I’d love to pray in sync with mt pastor, I find the cheesy Collects and antiphons of the LoTH a hindrance to my spiritual growth.
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They sound a little less cheesy in Latin.

If you use Les Heures Grégoriennes (Latin/French) a good number of the Latin antiphons come from the monastic collection; others were composed on the same modes/melodies.

As for the collects the same collects are in the current monastic offices, even the ones using the traditional Benedictine schema.

From a “tradition” standpoint, here’s some food for thought:
  1. Many of the psalms have kept their “traditional” place in the Office, in particular the traditional Lauds and Vespers psalms (50, 62, 117, 109-113 on Sundays, etc.)
  2. There are options to make the Office of Readings a Vigil office
  3. There’s an option to make Compline psalm 4, 90 and 133 every day (and you don’t miss the usual Compline psalms, they are elsewhere in the Office)
  4. You can use the gradual psalms to complete the other minor hours
  5. If you say the invitatory before Lauds, you can use Ps. 66
  6. Prayer for the dead has been kept but as the last intercession at Vespers.
From the “practicality” standpoint;
  1. it’s short enough for busy people
  2. the calendar is in synch with the OF Mass
  3. the collects and readings are in synch with the OF Mass
And lastly: it’s the main official Office of the Church. You are joining your prayer to the Universal Church. The MD in English isn’t liturgical… it isn’t an approved translation, it’s only “liturgical” if you do it in Latin.

Since in summer I’m busier, I tend to use the LoTH in the summer, otherwise I use a Benedictine Office as my abbey). However, that office uses the same calendar (although the Benedictine Calendar has minor differences for some saints, and some memorials, for instance of St. Benedict, are solemnities or feasts instead of memorials) and collects as the LoTH so other than the psalmody things are in synch.
 
I know this is kind of late but i had the same situation you did. I brought the Collegeville Breviary which is what the barnious one is based on for $100 from ebay. It was an amazing deal and in excellent condition. I think that might be the best since we still dont know when the second printing of the Barnious One will be
 
OraLabora said:
And to respect tradition, there are books available to allow you to chant the hours in Gregorian chant in Latin: Antiphonale Romanum II is Vespers in Latin Gregorian chant for Vespers of Sundays, feasts and solemnities, and Les Heures Gregoriennes allows you to chant all the day hours (no Office of Readings) in Gregorian chant, in either French or Latin. Both books are in Gregorian notation.
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There’s also the Mundelein Psalter, which uses the approved english LOTR translation with gregorian chant notation. It also has English/Latin hymns, which I believe are from the editio typica instead of the sometimes cheesy hymns found in the english LOTH.

It only includes the full Lauds/Vespers/Compline though.
 
curlycool89 said:
There’s also the Mundelein Psalter, which uses the approved english LOTR translation with gregorian chant notation. It also has English/Latin hymns, which I believe are from the editio typica instead of the sometimes cheesy hymns found in the english LOTH.

It only includes the full Lauds/Vespers/Compline though.
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Yes I forgot about that one, I have it in my collection. The French equivalent would be Les Heures Grégoriennes which I do use. It has all the Latin antiphons with Gregorian notation, and the Latin psalms, readings, responsories etc. on the left-hand page and the official French AELF translation on the right. It’s a full diurnal antiphonary, covering Lauds, mid-day, Vespers and Compline, with the complementary psalter if one wants to observe all three minor canonical hours (Terce, Sext and None). It comes in three volumes and they’re nicely laid out to avoid page flipping; volume I covers Advent, Christmas and Ordinary Time; vol. II is Lent and Eastertide, and Vol III is the sanctoral. The hymns are straight from the Liber Hymnarius and the French hymns are direct translations of the Latin hymns. It may surprise you to no end to learn that the French hymns in LOTH that are original compositions and not Latin translations, are also very cheesy… :rolleyes:

I also use a monastic psalter as I mentioned, when I have more time, which hasn’t been the case lately.
 
Duns_Scotus said:
Hello! This is my first post, so I’ll work in my ‘hi-s’ here.

Anyway, I’ll not beat about the bush. I would love to pray the traditional Daily Office and I love the structure of prayer, but, to be utterly honest, the price of the Baronius Breviary is simply beyond a lad like me. The [Latin-English, I am learning Latin, and am quite good with Classical texts, but the English texts and rubrics will be an invaluable ‘crib’ and guide] options (new - incidentally, if this is not advertising, I am not selling them though, there are some splendid prices for Latin-only breviaries, even quite obscure ones, on eBay in the UK at the minute if anyone needs one) I know of are:

Baronius Press breviary: £230, plus 25 pounds I think for the Martyrology from the Angelus Press for Prime. All the extras are lovely, plus, the new printing gives me time to drop pennies into the pot and save up!

Monastic Diurnal: Published by St. Michael’s Abbey at Farnborough. £45 plus the twenty-five for the Martyrology for Prime [and that again, if, as one blogger advised, the Rule of St. Benedict is required. I am not strictly sure how the traditional Benedictine rite differs from the Roman, but, of course, it is a venerable and deeply pious Office from a great Order of faithful monks. I can’t afford this one, but much less so, and the lack of Matins, as I am studying and don’t have the immense privilege of cloistered life in the service of our Lord, may not be so bad.

Edit: Also, I’ve heard something about errors in this one? Not doctrinal, of course, but printing errors. Is this true?

Of course, I intend to get the Little Office of the BVM as soon as I can.

Therefore, that’s £275 plus shipping for one, and anywhere from £75 to £95 for the other. Of those, the less expensive one is obvious, but even that is a huge amount of money for someone, frankly, as hard-up as me! Also, is the full Breviary better?

All of these carry the baggage of shipping (I’m a Scot). Does anyone know of a less expensive way of getting a traditional Breviary in book form? If not, do you just, sorry to quote scripture, have to gird up your loins and get one?
Click to expand...
I use the same Diurnal, I had no idea they had the Martyrology, I use me from a local monastery! Yes, there are printing errors in the one frok St. Michaels Abbey. For example, in the Litany it says wouldsr instead of wouldst but that’s okay.

I use Matins from Lancelot Andrews Press, at first I didn’t want to use it but I found a catholic site that testifies that catholics, Anglicans and orthodox use it. Although it is Anglican. The Matins is not to expensive and with the diurnal it might cost about $100. I have a small version of the little office of the bvm. Hopes this helps some how!👍
[/quote]
 
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