Brick Wall Returning To The Catholic Church.

[otm]

Mark Danich:

It is really stupid that the Catholic Church is in dialogue with the Moslems. The Moslem religion is the most evil and demonic inspired religion that has ever been perpetrated on mankind. The Koran commands all Moslems to kill the infidels which are according to the Koran the Jews and the Christians.

That comment coud be amde about the Hindus, given their treatement of Muslims and Christians.
It is just that the grief the radical Muslims give Israel makes the news more often and more widely.

 

[banjo]

## Because the CC has officially stopped doing so.

chretiens-et-juifs.org/article.php?voir%5B%5D=290&voir%5B%5D=8938

“The Roman Catholic reflections describe the growing respect for the Jewish tradition that has unfolded since the Second Vatican Council. A deepening Catholic appreciation of the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, together with a recognition of a divinely-given mission to Jews to witness to God’s faithful love, lead to the conclusion that campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer theologically acceptable in the Catholic Church.”

It seems the operative words here are “campaigns that target.” I don’t believe that this means we are being told/asked to give up evangelizing Jews or anyone else.

 

[Christus_Rex]

Karin:

Totally agree with you here…but Mark was not showing this …he was showing pure hatred for the people of Islam

Islam didnt exists when Mark was around! HMMMMM…

Michael

 

[Karin]

Christus Rex:

Islam didnt exists when Mark was around! HMMMMM…

Michael

Was refering to a post by a member (Mark) that was deleted by the Mod.

 

[carol_marie]

Maranatha:

Now, if I understand this correctly, in so far as the Muslims worship the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, they are worshiping the same God that we are.

As a Catholic, I don’t believe the Koran is revelation from God. Therefore, it was either a fabrication of Muhammad or it came from someone or something else.

Islamic apologists say that the Koran is too perfect and beautiful to have been generated from an uneducated man like Muhammad. It’s also unlikely that a group of conspirators wrote the book and were able to keep their conspiracy a secret.** That leaves only a non-Godly supernatural source for it’s origin.**

When speaking to Muslims, I don’t bring this point up because it’s never profitable to the conversation but did I go wrong in my logic some where?

I agree.

 

[Karin]

Maranatha:

Now, if I understand this correctly, in so far as the Muslims worship the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, they are worshiping the same God that we are.

As a Catholic, I don’t believe the Koran is revelation from God. Therefore, it was either a fabrication of Muhammad or it came from someone or something else.

Islamic apologists say that the Koran is too perfect and beautiful to have been generated from an uneducated man like Muhammad. It’s also unlikely that a group of conspirators wrote the book and were able to keep their conspiracy a secret. That leaves only a non-Godly supernatural source for it’s origin.

When speaking to Muslims, I don’t bring this point up because it’s never profitable to the conversation but did I go wrong in my logic some where?

No as a Catholic your logic is not incorrect. A Catholic will never see the Quran as a revelation from God, but a revelation from someone or something else. Not that a Muslim would agree with you though
It seems that both Catholics and Muslims both have issues with each others Holy Books.

 

[fix]

awalt:

So - given this, isn’t it a better, more Christian course for the Pope and the Church to pursue, to work together, seek understanding on the things we agree on, and work together on the common areas where we can make the world better (poverty, violence, persecution, etc.)? That is the goal.

Where can I read that the Pope says this is the sole goal? If we stop at the things we have in common and go no further, we have lost the zeal for evangelization.

Why did Christ start the Church?

 

[Christus_Rex]

Karin:

Was refering to a post by a member (Mark) that was deleted by the Mod.

oh! LOL I thought you meant St. Mark!

Michael

 

[Evan]

“The Roman Catholic reflections describe the growing respect for the Jewish tradition that has unfolded since the Second Vatican Council. A deepening Catholic appreciation of the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, together with a recognition of a divinely-given mission to Jews to witness to God’s faithful love, lead to the conclusion that campaigns that target Jews for conversion to Christianity are no longer theologically acceptable in the Catholic Church.”

The church has turned it’s attention to saving the world. Christian, Jew, Moslem, Hindu, etc. We no longer target specific populatioins.

We are still free to evangelize to any living person, but we do not seek out only Jews.

 

[Evan]

MrS:

The worshop Allah…one God

Catholics worship the Triune God.

Does not sound quite the same to me. The only similarity is in the use of the term “one God”.

They worship Allah, and teach that Jesus is only a man.

Does not sound quite like the same God to me.

We believe in One God. (In arabic… we believe in one allah). They worship the one God, as do we, as do the Jews. It has been revealed to us (christians) that this one God is made up of three persons. But if you do not accept the Christian revelation, and you worship the creator of all things, what God are you worshiping. The creator is God…Father Son and Holy Ghost.

I don’t need to know everything about God to worship Him. So I can worship God in a simple manner. Either as a monotheist (Jew or Muslim), or as a christian.

The church has the fullness of revelation, whereas other religions and sects, also have part of revelation. They may add to our understanding of God because they can see another side that we do not. This would not reveal anything new, only another aspect of what we believe. For example, the spirit of worship found in evangelical christian communities or the sense of service to others found in the savation army church.

Look to the Muslims to give a greater dignity to the UNITY of the 3 persons. Read the Athanasian Creed. Ask Islam to read and reflect on that creed. ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

 

[fix]

1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

1. As the Son was sent by the Father,(131) so He too sent the Apostles, saying: “Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world”.(132) The Church has received this solemn mandate of Christ to proclaim the saving truth from the apostles and must carry it out to the very ends of the earth.(133) Wherefore she makes the words of the Apostle her own: “Woe to me, if I do not preach the Gospel”,(134) and continues unceasingly to send heralds of the Gospel until such time as the infant churches are fully established and can themselves continue the work of evangelizing. For the Church is compelled by the Holy Spirit to do her part that God’s plan may be fully realized, whereby He has constituted Christ as the source of salvation for the whole world.LUMEN GENTIUM

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

DELLA

*God is merciful, not wishing that any be lost. This is why he sent his Son to redeem the world through his death and resurrection, thus opening the way of salvation to all men. Explicit faith is not required. What is required is the desire to love God and one’s neighbor and to live in accord with the graces God gives to each of us. You forget that the mentally disabled and small children do not have the ability to make any assent to belief, either, and yet they are saved by means of their baptism.
*
Tsk, tsk.

Please don’t compare those who are aware of Christ and refuse Christ to small children and the mentally disabled. The vast majority of adults who refuse Christ are perfectly aware of what they are doing.

They do it to their own peril.

God is their judge … but I would tremble to be in their shoes.