Bridge churches?

[mardukm]

Dear brother ConstantineTG,

Because they didn’t establish the Eastern Catholic Churches for that purpose.

Eastern Orthodoxy itself has always had an strain of “uniatism” in its theology (just look at its history with Oriental Orthodoxy in the past). Don’t blind yourself to that reality in your acceptance of Eastern Christianity. I believe your attitude towards Latin Catholicism makes it sadly evident. Increasingly in your posts, I find an undercurrent of disgust towards things Latin. That’s a shame, IMHO. I pray you can appreciate the universality of the Church while having an Eastern identity.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[ConstantineTG]

Dear brother ConstantineTG,

Eastern Orthodoxy itself has always had an strain of “uniatism” in its theology (just look at its history with Oriental Orthodoxy in the past). Don’t blind yourself to that reality in your acceptance of Eastern Christianity. I believe your attitude towards Latin Catholicism makes it sadly evident. Increasingly in your posts, I find an undercurrent of disgust towards things Latin. That’s a shame, IMHO. I pray you can appreciate the universality of the Church while having an Eastern identity.

Blessings,
Marduk

What is sad about it? I am calling for us to accept the reality as it is presented before us and embrace it if we are to be truly Catholic. I am not trying to paint a negative picture of Rome. This is the papacy, this is the Catholic Church. If we cannot accept it, then we should get out. It is not fair to ourselves and our faith, and not fair to the Pope whom we say we are in communion with and yet we make stuff up about him that does not reflect the reality we are in. What is so bad about being truthful? ECs are quick to complain, “why is Rome doing this?” “What is this RC bishop saying this?” The problem is in our minds we live in a different world apart from reality, that is why we are disappointed always. If we want to be Catholic and we believe in being in communion with the chair of Peter, then we should accept everything the way it is today because that is what the man sitting at the chair of Peter says it is. And that is part of the Catholic faith.

It is not a bad thing to say that and to believe that.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Dear brother ConstantineTG,

Eastern Orthodoxy itself has always had an strain of “uniatism” in its theology (just look at its history with Oriental Orthodoxy in the past).

Indeed, the Georgian Church was uniated 1000 years before the Latins started doing the same.

 

[malphono]

What is sad about it? I am calling for us to accept the reality as it is presented before us and embrace it if we are to be truly Catholic. I am not trying to paint a negative picture of Rome. This is the papacy, this is the Catholic Church. If we cannot accept it, then we should get out. It is not fair to ourselves and our faith, and not fair to the Pope whom we say we are in communion with and yet we make stuff up about him that does not reflect the reality we are in. What is so bad about being truthful? ECs are quick to complain, “why is Rome doing this?” “What is this RC bishop saying this?” The problem is in our minds we live in a different world apart from reality, that is why we are disappointed always. If we want to be Catholic and we believe in being in communion with the chair of Peter, then we should accept everything the way it is today because that is what the man sitting at the chair of Peter says it is. And that is part of the Catholic faith.

It’s not my intention to get involved in this discussion, but I can’t help but wonder if the above comment is tongue-in-cheek or if it’s supposed to be a nice way of saying “sit down, shut-up, and take your medicine. Dr Pope knows best.”

 

[ConstantineTG]

It’s not my intention to get involved in this discussion, but I can’t help but wonder if the above comment is tongue-in-cheek or if it’s supposed to be a nice way of saying “sit down, shut-up, and take your medicine. Dr Pope knows best.”

If you want to put it that way

But the Pope does define what is de fide. The Pope speaks for the Church, the Holy Spirit speaks through him. He is infallible in matters of faith and morals. And the authority of the Pope in the Church is a matter of faith.

See, if we keep saying that the Pope’s authority today is not the same as his authority in the First Millennium, then the simple conclusion is that the Pope is heretical. So if he is, why are we in communion with a heretical bishop?

 

[malphono]

If you want to put it that way

But the Pope does define what is de fide. The Pope speaks for the Church, the Holy Spirit speaks through him. He is infallible in matters of faith and morals. And the authority of the Pope in the Church is a matter of faith.

See, if we keep saying that the Pope’s authority today is not the same as his authority in the First Millennium, then the simple conclusion is that the Pope is heretical. So if he is, why are we in communion with a heretical bishop?

The term “heretical” might be a bit much, but I know the point. A combination of medicine and tongue-in-cheek.

If only Rome would retract its unilateral “developments” in the papacy after the 1st millennium… Yeah, I know … wishful thinking.

 

[Peter_J]

So if he is, why are we in communion with a heretical bishop?

If I thought the pope was heretical, I wouldn’t want to be in communion with him. But, by the same token, why would the Pope want to be in communion with anyone he regards as heretical?

 

[ConstantineTG]

If I thought the pope was heretical, I wouldn’t want to be in communion with him. But, by the same token, why would the Pope want to be in communion with anyone he regards as heretical?

Exactly

 

[Nine_Two]

I’ve noticed a nasty trend; a slight arrogance among Orthodox as they believe they and only they have valid sacraments and the Catholic Church does not, a very un-Christian, and in many cases downright hatred for anything Catholic…especially the Pope, which I find sad.

In order to be considered a faithful Orthodox, you must despise the Catholic Church and consider all Catholics heretics on the way to hell.

So it is naive to believe the Eastern Catholic Church is a bridge from the Orthodox Church to the Catholic Church.

Double standards much?

 

[Nine_Two]

I have been scandalized by what I saw as unbridled hatred towards the Catholic Church by Orthodox whom the Catholic Church sees as brothers and sisters who have valid sacraments and who can take part in the Eucharist in any Catholic Church in the world.

But it is not reciprocated.

We see Catholics in a much better light than Catholics see Anglicans, so if you’re fine with the Catholic stance on Anglicans, you have no right to condemn us.

Incidentally I was at a dinner party the other night, the party was hosted by an Orthodox man, although it was attended by people of a number of different creeds. One of these individuals is a somewhat prominent Catholic priest. at one point discussion turned to Russia, and from Russia to Orthodoxy. Not realizing there were any Orthodox around to hear (I was the only one), he began to rail against the Orthodox Church.

As Metternich said of the French Revolutionaries )and their slogan, still used by France, ‘Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity’: “If that is fraternity, I don’t want to be their brother.”

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

We see Catholics in a much better light than Catholics see Anglicans, so if you’re fine with the Catholic stance on Anglicans, you have no right to condemn us.

Incidentally I was at a dinner party the other night, the party was hosted by an Orthodox man, although it was attended by people of a number of different creeds. One of these individuals is a somewhat prominent Catholic priest. at one point discussion turned to Russia, and from Russia to Orthodoxy. Not realizing there were any Orthodox around to hear (I was the only one), he began to rail against the Orthodox Church.

As Metternich said of the French Revolutionaries )and their slogan, still used by France, ‘Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity’: “If that is fraternity, I don’t want to be their brother.”

Why did he say that?

 

[Nine_Two]

Why did he say that?

Metternich? Because the French were busy murdering each other in the name of Fraternity.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Metternich? Because the French were busy murdering each other in the name of Fraternity.

The priest, silly

 

[mardukm]

If I thought the pope was heretical, I wouldn’t want to be in communion with him. But, by the same token, why would the Pope want to be in communion with anyone he regards as heretical?

Unless he does not regard them as heretical.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[oyaji]

We see Catholics in a much better light than Catholics see Anglicans, so if you’re fine with the Catholic stance on Anglicans, you have no right to condemn us.

I’m not condemning anyone. I’m just trying to understand the great divide a little better. Just in case you or anyone else misunderstands. I’m just giving my opinion on what I feel is the attitude of Orthodox towards Catholics from reading several hundred posts from Orthodox, Ex-Orthodox, and Eastern Catholics from several different sources scattered around cyber-space.

BTW. I just started reading, His Broken Body: Understanding and Healing the Schism between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches by Fr. Laurent A. Cleenewerck. It’s a good read.

 

[Nine_Two]

The priest, silly

The topic of Russian politics came up and I guess he disagrees with Putin’s politics and the fact that the Church isn’t against him.

 

[Nine_Two]

I’m not condemning anyone. I’m just trying to understand the great divide a little better. Just in case you or anyone else misunderstands. I’m just giving my opinion on what I feel is the attitude of Orthodox towards Catholics from reading several hundred posts from Orthodox, Ex-Orthodox, and Eastern Catholics from several different sources scattered around cyber-space.

BTW. I just started reading, His Broken Body: Understanding and Healing the Schism between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches by Fr. Laurent A. Cleenewerck. It’s a good read.

I understand English might not be your first language, but it certainly came across that way. When you declare what we believe (and are wrong) and say we are wrong, it doesn’t quite have the flavour of opinion.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

I’m not condemning anyone. I’m just trying to understand the great divide a little better. Just in case you or anyone else misunderstands. I’m just giving my opinion on what I feel is the attitude of Orthodox towards Catholics from reading several hundred posts from Orthodox, Ex-Orthodox, and Eastern Catholics from several different sources scattered around cyber-space.
.

I was with Orthodoxy for 16 years and can write a list a mile long of all the criticisms ,condemnations, i heard or read against the Catholics

Even some more liberal Orthodox Christians have been sickened,have stopped attending bible classes and have been put off by some of the ‘theologians’ that do bible classes here and repeatedly attack ,bash or put down the Catholic church,its saints,the Pope and its miracles and theology and sacraments

As i started to flirt with RC again ,one EO priest didnt allow me in his church to pray and attend vespers until i decided to totally reject RC and stay fully Orthodox

I dont care what the EO do or say so im not criticising but just saying ive heard plenty of Catholic bashing from the EO at their bible classes and discussions and talks.

One of those ‘theologians’ has even been banned a number of times from preaching because he speaks out against the actions of Bishops who have relations and are trying to improve relations with Rome.

He said to me that he preaches Truth with Love

So i know the EO believe they just talk or preach what they believe about the RC and they probably arent sorry for it.

Fair enough and God bless them

My RC preist said EO hasnt had a reform like the RC has in becoming accepting of the EO church and sacraments and not considering them schismatics and such anymore.

The RC seem to be more open to reconciliation then the EO,If EO continue to shut out or keep the door closed on RC ,how will there ever be renconciliation,love ,respect and union.

The EO Bishops are forming joint statements with RC but alot of laypeople preach and speak out against the actions of their own Bishops,and are rejecting union and how many EO churches and people have gone into schism and ‘Old calender churches’

Anyway EO churches arent all the same perhaps ,but where i live Catholic bashing has been extreme at times

Peace

 

[oyaji]

I understand English might not be your first language, but it certainly came across that way. When you declare what we believe (and are wrong) and say we are wrong, it doesn’t quite have the flavour of opinion.

Actually I’m an English teacher so my grasp of the English language is just fine. Again, you seem confused. I said over and over again that I’m only giving my take on what I see as-in many cases-hatred towards the Catholic Church by Orthodox Christians.

Apparently you are not in that camp, but the hate out there is real.

 

[Contarini]

We see Catholics in a much better light than Catholics see Anglicans, so if you’re fine with the Catholic stance on Anglicans, you have no right to condemn us.

Can you explain this? I don’t see it myself. In what, precisely, does this “much better light” consist?