Bringing Back Difficulty to get an Annulment

[Jestocost]

I agree with the above postings that say there are no acceptable answers in this poll, and those that say the problem is at the other end. The are too many invalid marriages. This is partly due to interfaith marriages. There isn’t much the church can do to make sure that marriages that occur outside the church are valid. Another problem is the rescue situation. I understand that it is a frequent case for annulment that one or both partners were in a very bad home situation and saw marriage as an escape from that. In effect they were coerced into marriage. Now even if a priest is able to identify this situation (child abusers can be very good at hiding the facts), what priest could in good concience refuse to preform the marriage and leave the young person “trapped” in the cycle of abuse?

 

[parvenu74]

If the couple (or one of them) getting married don’t truly intend to marry, then their ‘marriage’ isn’t valid. They have lied to God and the church and taken false vows. That means that they weren’t married in the eyes of God or the Church.

So you’re willing to bend the rules of the Church in order to accommodate those who would take fraudulent vows? That’s backward! Even before Vatican II it would be possible for an innocent party to get an annulment in such a situation (though I imagine documenting the fraud is the harder part).

Let’s start with the obvious basics: Catholics are bound to follow the laws of the Church. Our mother the Church has clearly taught was we need to do for a lawful marriage. If we fail to follow those rules it’s either the failing of our priests and parents for not teaching us those rules, or its our fault for intentionally breaking them. In either case this isn’t sufficient cause to change the rules for marriage. These rules are in place to protect the spouses and the children resulting from marriage, and our Holy Mother the Church didn’t legislate these rules on a whim.

If we have problems with marriages in the Church today – and the number of annulments should clue us in that there is a first class crisis with regard to Catholic marriage – it ultimately can be traced back to a failure to educate people in the tenets of the Catholic Faith, including our obligations to obey the laws of the Church.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Should we go back to the pre-Vatican II era when it was much harder to get an annulment?

If the question is: Should we make the process more rigorous (harder)? As my wife went thru the process twice (she stopped once) and both times she found it extremely painful and emotional, I think we should add more pastoral care to the process through either better training of the Pastor or making available a Priest with experience to counsel prior to and during the process. The Tribunal Priest is to investigate and not be pastoral.

If the question is: Should we add place greater obstacles to discourage (harder) applications? Absolutely not. If a person is bound by an invalid marriage, it is imperative that the Church relieve the person of the burden to allow them to pursue fully Christ’s plan for the person.

If the question is: Should we create a higher threshold for granting annulments? Impossible. Either the person is in a Sacramentally valid marriage as defined by the Church or not. The decree of annullity only acknowledges what God already knows.

Many on the thread have it right: The problem is not too many annulments but too many invalid marriages. This is all of our responsibility.

Parents to better teache our children so they know what they are doing when they “fall in love.” It is sometimes too late if we wait until they “fall in love.”

Priests, CCD teachers, and marriage lay counselors need to work harder during the engagement process.

Parishioners need to pray for everyone considering marriage.

Everytime someone makes a comment about “too many annulments”, I ask “What are you doing to improve the situation?” If they are doing nothing, I don’t want to hear their opinion. If you aren’t part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

 

[parvenu74]

If the question is: Should we make the process more rigorous (harder)? As my wife went thru the process twice (she stopped once) and both times she found it extremely painful and emotional, I think we should add more pastoral care to the process through either better training of the Pastor or making available a Priest with experience to counsel prior to and during the process. The Tribunal Priest is to investigate and not be pastoral.

Emotionally painful? Before I got married last summer, my then-fiancee and I were told point-blank that a great portion of the marriage class, and one of the primary goals of the class, was to absolutely preclude the possibility of annulment by the end of the marriage classes. At first this sounded like a bit of CYA on the part of the priest, but on second thought, it’s really a tremendous act of Charity on the part of the Church to prepare for marriage so that annulment isn’t a possibility. Neither my wife nor I have to wonder or worry whether we have sufficient maturity or knew what we were doing or if we did everything properly… that was all settled before we exchanged vows. As a result, we – and also our children – can be SECURE in the knowledge that our marriage is a true, Christian, Sacramental marriage that cannot end until one of us dies. Among other things, this is tremendously reassuring! Were there some tough questions asked during marriage prep? Of course: the priest wanted to make sure we knew what we were getting into (or as he put it to me: I need to make sure you realize that you can’t ever trade her in on a new model if things don’t go the way to expect…). As a guy in this world, the prospect of truly growing up can be tough, even if the yet-unseen rewards for doing so are more than worth it.

I can’t speak to the emotional state of others or why they might find marriage prep difficult, but it seems to me that the preparation should be a lot more reassuring than painful.

 

[parvenu74]

I think marriage prep in most parishes frankly sucks… In my parents’ day, the Church required 6 months of intenstive Pre Cana. That’s what I think we need.

During my marriage prep last summer – which was several meetings over the course of three or four months – the priest at one meeting has us sign affidavits affirming that we were free to marry, knew what we were doing, intended to marry according to rules of the Church, that nobody was coercing us to do so, etc. After we signed the document and handed it back to him he told us point-blank that with this document it would be 100% impossible to ever get an annulment, and that if either of us had any doubts we were bound to bring them up now. Sounds harsh on the face of it, but I think this is what every priest should be doing in marriage prep.

(Don’t get me wrong: it wasn’t all a legal exercise… the paperwork and annulment-proofing was only a small part of the preparation. A lot more time was spent on spiritual preparation for the Sacrament: making us aware of the sacrifices that would be required for the married life, and also explaining how we earn Supernatural Grace in our daily married life.)

 

[qui_est_ce]

If the question is: Should we make the process more rigorous (harder)? As my wife went thru the process twice (she stopped once) and both times she found it extremely painful and emotional, I think we should add more pastoral care to the process through either better training of the Pastor or making available a Priest with experience to counsel prior to and during the process. The Tribunal Priest is to investigate and not be pastoral.

If the question is: Should we add place greater obstacles to discourage (harder) applications? Absolutely not. If a person is bound by an invalid marriage, it is imperative that the Church relieve the person of the burden to allow them to pursue fully Christ’s plan for the person.

If the question is: Should we create a higher threshold for granting annulments? Impossible. Either the person is in a Sacramentally valid marriage as defined by the Church or not. The decree of annullity only acknowledges what God already knows.

Many on the thread have it right: The problem is not too many annulments but too many invalid marriages. This is all of our responsibility.

Parents to better teache our children so they know what they are doing when they “fall in love.” It is sometimes too late if we wait until they “fall in love.”

Priests, CCD teachers, and marriage lay counselors need to work harder during the engagement process.

Parishioners need to pray for everyone considering marriage.

Everytime someone makes a comment about “too many annulments”, I ask “What are you doing to improve the situation?” If they are doing nothing, I don’t want to hear their opinion. If you aren’t part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Thank you. I have been through the process myself. It is very, very difficult. You really have to examine yourself with complete honesty.

The reason annulments are so “successful” is that only people who really care about the Sacraments go through it. The rest don’t care and just get married anyway. They quit going to Church, they’d rather be married than get the Sacraments.

I say this with great difficulty. I have been married and divorced twice.

The first time, I was 23, old enough to know what I was doing. I married a nice Catholic man from a nice Catholic family. After we got married, he decided we needed to use birth control, because he didn’t want any kids, but he wanted a LOT of sex. He stopped going to mass, and became abusive. No kids from that marriage. I divorced and got an annulment.

I got married “again” by this time I was thirty and old enough. I married the best person I could imagine. He came from a good Italian Catholic family, was loving, kind, good looking, wanted family. We shared the same family values. We went through pre-Cana, didn’t live together before marriage, etc. From my point of view, I did everything validly. I was a very active member in my parish. The ex knew that going into the marriage, and he seemed to admire that.

After we married, he stopped going to mass. He did did not attend the Baptism of our first child And turned almost violent towards the Church. Once he even took down every piece of religious art in our home and through it in the trash. He said he signed the paper that he would raise our kids Catholic only so that the priest would marry us. He had no intention of raising them Catholic. And many other lies and misrepresentations. Every once in a while he would come to mass with me, but I would almost pray he not come along, because he would be in a bad mood the rest of the day. It was like the Devil was stirred up in him. I divorced him. (divorce #2)

I talked to my pastor, and he said I have sufficient grounds to make an appeal for an annulment to this last marriage. I have no intention of getting married again, but it will make a statement about the “marriage.”

The Ex is on his 4th Sig. Other. He lived with a woman for several years, got engaged to another one, married me, divorced me, got married again, and is going through a divorce from wife #2, and already is living with his new grilfreind. He is 55 and still thinks he’s a teen-ager. Even our kids are disgusted by his behavior.

Please do not make a difficult situation even harsher because of pre-conceived ideas of liberalism in the CC. I am about as Orthodox CC as one can get. I don’t know why this happened to me, but anyone who has been through a divorce can tell you it’s one of the most difficult things in life to go through. Even after all the abuse and bullying. I wanted to go back to the marriage. I still mourn the loss. Thank goodness I was safe with my family in another state!

 

[cecilia97]

Cecilia—I guess from everyone else I have heard from—it has appeared to be simply petitioning for one and getting approved. I guess I have never asked about the length of time it takes…or what the exact procedure is with meetings and everything.

It just seems to me, from what I have read (if it is true)—that a 90-95% approval of anullment petitions in the US seems ridiculous-especially when taking into account what happens on appeal…or the approval rate around the rest of the world.

I hope that you get through this process with the result you are looking for and your faith.

Does anyone have copies of any blank documents that they received (questionairres, etc) for starting out the anullment process? I am just curious as to the questions that are asked…I know basically the grounds, but am trying to figure out everything about the process-as I see that in my future.

It is far from simply petitioning and sitting back for the approval to arrive in the mail. You can PM me for some documents if you like.

My pastor, a very traditional and holy priest, explains the approval rate in the US with the fact that, in part, in the US we have to 1) actually be civilly divorced before we can petition, 2) have to be basically pre-approved. i.e…my case sponsor (who just happened to be my pastor) had to read through my petition and decide that there were sufficient grounds for me to even send it in. A lot of petitions get stopped at that level…that can skew the approval “percentages” in the US. My pastor told me he doesn’t let some petitions get past him at all.

 

[qui_est_ce]

During my marriage prep last summer – which was several meetings over the course of three or four months – the priest at one meeting has us sign affidavits affirming that we were free to marry, knew what we were doing, intended to marry according to rules of the Church, that nobody was coercing us to do so, etc. After we signed the document and handed it back to him he told us point-blank that with this document it would be 100% impossible to ever get an annulment, and that if either of us had any doubts we were bound to bring them up now. Sounds harsh on the face of it, but I think this is what every priest should be doing in marriage prep.

(Don’t get me wrong: it wasn’t all a legal exercise… the paperwork and annulment-proofing was only a small part of the preparation. A lot more time was spent on spiritual preparation for the Sacrament: making us aware of the sacrifices that would be required for the married life, and also explaining how we earn Supernatural Grace in our daily married life.)

We signed all that stuff too. But the ex didn’t mean it. He just signed it so we could get married by my priest. Turns out he didn’t care about getting in the Church, it was just me, and he did it to please me.

 

[cecilia97]

Emotionally painful? Before I got married last summer, my then-fiancee and I were told point-blank that a great portion of the marriage class, and one of the primary goals of the class, was to absolutely preclude the possibility of annulment by the end of the marriage classes. At first this sounded like a bit of CYA on the part of the priest, but on second thought, it’s really a tremendous act of Charity on the part of the Church to prepare for marriage so that annulment isn’t a possibility. Neither my wife nor I have to wonder or worry whether we have sufficient maturity or knew what we were doing or if we did everything properly… that was all settled before we exchanged vows. As a result, we – and also our children – can be SECURE in the knowledge that our marriage is a true, Christian, Sacramental marriage that cannot end until one of us dies. Among other things, this is tremendously reassuring! Were there some tough questions asked during marriage prep? Of course: the priest wanted to make sure we knew what we were getting into (or as he put it to me: I need to make sure you realize that you can’t ever trade her in on a new model if things don’t go the way to expect…). As a guy in this world, the prospect of truly growing up can be tough, even if the yet-unseen rewards for doing so are more than worth it.

I can’t speak to the emotional state of others or why they might find marriage prep difficult, but it seems to me that the preparation should be a lot more reassuring than painful.

I think he was saying the *annulment process *is emotionally painful.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Cecilia—I guess from everyone else I have heard from—it has appeared to be simply petitioning for one and getting approved. I guess I have never asked about the length of time it takes…or what the exact procedure is with meetings and everything.

It just seems to me, from what I have read (if it is true)—that a 90-95% approval of anullment petitions in the US seems ridiculous-especially when taking into account what happens on appeal…or the approval rate around the rest of the world.

I hope that you get through this process with the result you are looking for and your faith.

Does anyone have copies of any blank documents that they received (questionairres, etc) for starting out the anullment process? I am just curious as to the questions that are asked…I know basically the grounds, but am trying to figure out everything about the process-as I see that in my future.

Go to your priest if you are truly interested. Are you trying to get the exam so you can know the answers? You will be disappointed, because it’s not as black and white as you think. AGAIN, I say, the reason it’s so successful is that only people who care about the Sacraments will go through this extreme length to make thinks right with their Holy Catholic Church.

 

[SnorterLuster]

Is the concept of a solemn vow so foreign to our world today, that the vow is not sufficient to preclude any annulments? My wife and I knew when we were married that we were taking a vow before God and our families that we would be married til death do us part. I can’t imagine any circumstance that would make me break that vow. If my wife left me for another man then I would still be bound by my vow. The rush for annulments is nothing more than looking for some loophole to get out of keeping your word.

The Church may say you have grounds for an annulment, but you know in your heart that you made a vow that you fully intended to be taken on it’s face. Self respect demands that you fulfill your part of the vow.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It is far from simply petitioning and sitting back for the approval to arrive in the mail. You can PM me for some documents if you like.

My pastor, a very traditional and holy priest, explains the approval rate in the US with the fact that, in part, in the US we have to 1) actually be civilly divorced before we can petition, 2) have to be basically pre-approved. i.e…my case sponsor (who just happened to be my pastor) had to read through my petition and decide that there were sufficient grounds for me to even send it in. A lot of petitions get stopped at that level…that can skew the approval “percentages” in the US. My pastor told me he doesn’t let some petitions get past him at all.

You are right. Are you going through the process? I am too, my prayers are with you.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Is the concept of a solemn vow so foreign to our world today, that the vow is not sufficient to preclude any annulments? My wife and I knew when we were married that we were taking a vow before God and our families that we would be married til death do us part. I can’t imagine any circumstance that would make me break that vow. If my wife left me for another man then I would still be bound by my vow. The rush for annulments is nothing more than looking for some loophole to get out of keeping your word.

The Church may say you have grounds for an annulment, but you know in your heart that you made a vow that you fully intended to be taken on it’s face. Self respect demands that you fulfill your part of the vow.

I’m glad you and your wife were on the same page. Not everybody is as lucky as you. If I make a vow to stick to the marriage CATHOLIC, and the other lies in the vow, what do you do if you don’t find out about it till AFTER the marriage?

 

[cecilia97]

You are right. Are you going through the process? I am too, my prayers are with you.

Hopefully finished one way or the other by next spring. I’ll be praying for you and all the folks in this annulment “no man’s land”.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hopefully finished one way or the other by next spring. I’ll be praying for you and all the folks in this annulment “no man’s land”.

I hate that poll too: “Should we keep it easy to get an annulment.” HA! Many are confusing “easy” with “more”

 

[cecilia97]

I’m glad you and your wife were on the same page. Not everybody is as lucky as you. If I make a vow to stick to the marriage CATHOLIC, and the other lies in the vow, what do you do if you don’t find out about it till AFTER the marriage?

Exactly. And this gets to the whole point behind declarations of nullity. The Church is not RELEASING anyone from a vow. I made a vow and meant it. My ex did not intend to make the same vow. Since matrimony is the one sacrament that the participants CONFER ON EACH OTHER, one false vow means a false sacrament.

If the vows are REAL, you don’t get the annulment.

There’s so much misunderstanding about this topic. You can’t just go out and buy an annulment from the Church because one or both spouses suddenly had a change of heart. That’s ridiculous. If that were the case I’d join the scolders too…thankfully it’s not.

I pray that everyone who misunderstands annulments never has to gain any firsthand knowledge about them.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Exactly. And this gets to the whole point behind declarations of nullity. The Church is not RELEASING anyone from a vow. I made a vow and meant it. My ex did not intend to make the same vow. Since matrimony is the one sacrament that the participants CONFER ON EACH OTHER, one false vow means a false sacrament.

If the vows are REAL, you don’t get the annulment.

There’s so much misunderstanding about this topic. You can’t just go out and buy an annulment from the Church because one or both spouses suddenly had a change of heart. That’s ridiculous. If that were the case I’d join the scolders too…thankfully it’s not.

I pray that everyone who misunderstands annulments never has to gain any firsthand knowledge about them.

My sentiments exactly, and more impportantly THE CHURCH’S .

 

[dixieagle]

And you think that’s going to change by making the Church be more liberal in its recognition of annulment? Yes, it should be harder to get a Catholic wedding, but it should be equally as hard to get the Church to recognize annulment, so that people take the sacrament of marriage seriously.

If it is more difficult to have a Catholic wedding, entailing thorough preparation and education, then there will be more Catholics who are fit for Catholic matrimony and fewer annulments. Annulments are, of course, solely dependent on the conditions in existence at the time of the wedding.

 

[dixieagle]

I believe there are too many Catholics who don’t have a clue what they are entering into or what their wedding vows mean. There are probably more invalid marriages today than ever before.

Sadly, this is so very true…

 

[dixieagle]

If the question is: Should we make the process more rigorous (harder)? As my wife went thru the process twice (she stopped once) and both times she found it extremely painful and emotional, I think we should add more pastoral care to the process through either better training of the Pastor or making available a Priest with experience to counsel prior to and during the process. The Tribunal Priest is to investigate and not be pastoral.

If the question is: Should we add place greater obstacles to discourage (harder) applications? Absolutely not. If a person is bound by an invalid marriage, it is imperative that the Church relieve the person of the burden to allow them to pursue fully Christ’s plan for the person.

If the question is: Should we create a higher threshold for granting annulments? Impossible. Either the person is in a Sacramentally valid marriage as defined by the Church or not. The decree of annullity only acknowledges what God already knows.

Many on the thread have it right: The problem is not too many annulments but too many invalid marriages. This is all of our responsibility.

Parents to better teache our children so they know what they are doing when they “fall in love.” It is sometimes too late if we wait until they “fall in love.”

Priests, CCD teachers, and marriage lay counselors need to work harder during the engagement process.

Parishioners need to pray for everyone considering marriage.

Everytime someone makes a comment about “too many annulments”, I ask “What are you doing to improve the situation?” If they are doing nothing, I don’t want to hear their opinion. If you aren’t part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Great post!

This education process needs to start WAY earlier than during engagement, in my opinion. Catholic parents should be providing a good example of true Christian marriage, and religious education programs should be addressing this, as well.