Bringing Back the Fallen-Away Young Catholics. Why don't people ask us why we left in the first place?

[Phemie]

There were a couple other things that struck me, though. One was that they appear to offer regular bible study and faith formation classes for the parish. In other words, they regularly reinforce the Catechism. I also saw that, in order for families to keep the parish tuition rate, parents are required to have their kids at Mass on every single Sunday and Holy Day of obligation. Of the other local schools I’ve looked at, the only ones who come close to this only require kids to be at Mass on half the Sundays (we can skip all Holy Days and take a 6-month vacation from Mass and still keep the parish rate).

I’m sure there’s more to it, but this parish which regularly provides extracurricular evangelization to its own members and not only expects but requires attendance at every obligated Mass throughout the year seems to have done a much better job at retaining younger Catholics than any of the other local parishes I’ve looked at.

While teaching the faith outside of Mass is a good thing, I don’t think it’s so great that they feel they have to pay them to come to Mass by offering a cheaper rate to those who attend regularly. Is it faith that keeps the pews full or is it a fear of losing money? Would they still come if they didn’t have to?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

(con’t from other post)
Of course, many happy clappy feel-good priests criticize this saying that I shouldn’t be doing things out of fear of going to Hell, but for the love of God, and that such is an immature faith. Well duh! When you’ve corrupted your theological virtues, specifically faith, there’s not much left to go on. It’s still something, and it got the desired result, more so than anything else that these other parishes have “tried”.

Really, what is was grace. Look at all the actual grace I received to get me into the Confessional. Once I got there, I was restored to being in a state of sanctifying grace. Since then, I have been attending the EF Mass, learning more about what Catholicism really teaches, going to Confession quite regularly, etc. Everything I am right now is all because of grace. Not from some banal homemade liturgy and being told we need to be singing and clapping along at Mass and distributing communion, being mini-priests, etc.

Maybe rather than looking at the problem from a secular marketing perspective, we should be looking at the issue from a theological perspective. After all, we are the fullness of truth, and have existed for over 2000 years.

Thanks for sharing.It was pleasant to read.
You know, you have come a long way and you’ll have a long way to go.
You are exactly on the right path.
I would not avoid the clapping masses. They are masses the same. Stick to the essential: Jesus Christ and he is there.
Nevertheless, you may go to whatever mass you want.
Remember that priests are people with good and bad humor at times. hearing confessions for 6 hours is nervous breaking. Priests have a hard time hearing confessions and many times it is something that they go to with no pleasure.
I would say you to join Intellectual Cathloci Movements or others.
God Bless You.

 

[JRKH]

While teaching the faith outside of Mass is a good thing, I don’t think it’s so great that they feel they have to pay them to come to Mass by offering a cheaper rate to those who attend regularly. Is it faith that keeps the pews full or is it a fear of losing money? Would they still come if they didn’t have to?

Many years ago (pre VII), parents were told that it was a serious sin to not send your child to Catholic School if it was available. Of course back then I don’t think tuition was charged and the majority of the teachers were religious. Also there were different “state requirements” as far as pay and other issues were concerned…BUT…

My point is that in that case a different “incentive” (avoiding sin) was used to get the children well taught in the faith. Today, they are using a different incentive (extra cost). Either way, the idea is certainly that the parents and children need to stay engaged in faith building.

Peace
James

 

[Phemie]

Many years ago (pre VII), parents were told that it was a serious sin to not send your child to Catholic School if it was available. Of course back then I don’t think tuition was charged and the majority of the teachers were religious. Also there were different “state requirements” as far as pay and other issues were concerned…BUT…

My point is that in that case a different “incentive” (avoiding sin) was used to get the children well taught in the faith. Today, they are using a different incentive (extra cost). Either way, the idea is certainly that the parents and children need to stay engaged in faith building.

Peace
James

It’s not quite the same. Going to Mass to avoid paying higher tuition to send your kids to a good school rather than out of love of God and a desire to praise and worship Him is not the same as sending your kids to a Catholic school out of obedience to the Church.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

It’s not quite the same. Going to Mass to avoid paying higher tuition to send your kids to a good school rather than out of love of God and a desire to praise and worship Him is not the same as sending your kids to a Catholic school out of obedience to the Church.

All the schools I’ve looked at around here have at least some sort of Mass attendance policy in order to receive the parish rate, as well as a requirement to contribute financially to the school and perform some degree of volunteer work throughout the year. I’ve talked to priests, principals and teachers who have all said that if they didn’t have that requirement, they believe that most of the parents & student would never attend Mass. As it is, I know our priest has to have regular meetings with parents who don’t even come close to hitting the mark on our Mass attendance requirements. I don’t see a parish requiring parents to bring their kids to Mass in order to be considered parishioners as a bad thing.

 

[JRKH]

It’s not quite the same. Going to Mass to avoid paying higher tuition to send your kids to a good school rather than out of love of God and a desire to praise and worship Him is not the same as sending your kids to a Catholic school out of obedience to the Church.

Well - they will stand before God as regards their heart.

I agree that it is not quite the same thing, but one does what one can…
The Church feels that this is an appropriate thing so - By doing this they ARE obeying the Church…

Peace
James:thumbsup:

 

[turtle18]

When I was younger I was a lapsed Catholic. I was mired in sin and totally swayed by the ways of the world. The problem was, everytime I attended Church, the Church seemed okay with this. There was no moral guidance or spiritual direction to turn away from sin or why I needed to turn away from sin.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

When I was younger I was a lapsed Catholic. I was mired in sin and totally swayed by the ways of the world. The problem was, everytime I attended Church, the Church seemed okay with this. There was no moral guidance or spiritual direction to turn away from sin or why I needed to turn away from sin.

Yes, I too found this when I was attending Mass off and on. I got fed up and moved so I could attend the EF Mass and be more involved in parish life. Our priest is from the FSSP and is quite well balanced in this regard. He’s solid on what he says, but he’s not over-bearing about it and is really good at telling you what you don’t want to hear in a way that it doesn’t sound so bad.

 

[DeniseNY]

When I was younger I was a lapsed Catholic. I was mired in sin and totally swayed by the ways of the world. The problem was, everytime I attended Church, the Church seemed okay with this. There was no moral guidance or spiritual direction to turn away from sin or why I needed to turn away from sin.

Same here. Except for me, it wasn’t that the Church was okay with it, but I was okay with it. I had to make the choice on my own to repent and turn away from sin. When I did, I was glad the Church was there and welcomed me back.

 

[jano1]

Deo Gracias 42

I have a daughter, age 29, who left the church. She loves God and is very spiritual and does attend church. Sometimes it is a non denominational, sometimes a Baptist…

Please tell me why you left the church.

Thank you.

 

[jano1]

Deo Gracias 42

I have a daughter, age 29, who left the church. She loves God and is very spiritual and does attend church. Sometimes it is a non denominational, sometimes a Baptist…

Please tell me why you left the church.

Thank you.

sorry I spelled you name wrong and I did go to earlier posts and read your ‘Readers Digest Condensed Version’

 

[Joe_5859]

A little over two months ago I reached the big 50. If you want my answer, it is not going to be pretty. But I will try to be as charitable as I can,
IMHO
Many “late” (baby) boomers like myself did not relate to our older siblings when it came to politics, social issues, and spiritualality. They were excited at what they percieved as a “liberal” turn in the Church in the “spirit of Vatican 2” While they were excited about throwing off the ‘shackles’ of tradition and morals. We were taking a second look at what they threw into the religious dumpster.
Thier religion seemed phony, only to serve a ‘position’ in the community. While they ‘found’ what they wanted by throwing out the values our parents gave us, we were searching for those values. trying to reclaim them.
But with poor catechisis (touchy feely ‘religion’ classes at our Catholic schools at the time) we soon lost faith in the Church of our fathers. While priests and nuns were trying to look “cool” to our liberally minded older siblings, we were looking elsewhere for authority.
Some found it in atheism, others (like myself) began to be drawn to evangelical and fundamentalist churches that at least gave the appearance of a solid foundation.
Someone said once the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again, each time expecting different results. Take it from someone who has been there. The answer is not more of the same thing that drove them from the Church to begin with. The answer is a proper Catechisis, and a return to Tradition.
Youth can be drawn easily to what LOOKS like the truth, but it led to even more confusion as I got older.
As age and wisdom caught up with me, I realized I needed more authority than a self-appointed “pope with a Bible”.
God is faithful and patient. through the prayers of my family I returned to the Church five years ago.
When you’re seven years old and you run away from home, it’s a lot of fun at 12 noon. But by 6pm it’s not fun anymore, you want to return home.

I really think that the generational thing has a lot to do with it. Of course, anytime we speak of “generations”, it goes without saying that we are speaking in overly-simplistic generalizations, but there is something to those generalizations.

I’ve been to more seminars that discussed these things than I care to admit.

But in a lot of ways the Baby Boomers set themselves up as the “experts” from the time of their youth until the present day. They have never been known for listening to others. Back when they were young, the battle cry was “Don’t trust anyone over 30!” Now that they are older, it is “Don’t trust anyone under 30!”

As I said before, this is a gross generalization and there are, of course, exceptions, but my experience has been similar that those of a certain age group seem convinced they know it all and we have but to sit quietly and learn it all from them.

So I can understand where the OP is coming from.

I do think things are changing, though. I have even known some honest Baby Boomers who have actually come to this realization about themselves and their generation and they are sincerely trying to be better about it. The fact that they even had a panel shows that there is some part of them that recognizes there is a need out there in the Church that they aren’t currently meeting.

It is a difficult thing, though, to be humble enough to admit we don’t know everything, particularly for those who have dedicated their entire lives to service of the Church.

Keep that in mind. They’ve been doing this for decades and they may feel they have been quite successful (everyone that actually sticks around has told them they just love what they’re doing). To admit that there might be other ways of doing things – particularly ways that they themselves rejected 40+ years ago because they didn’t resonate with them – is hard. I think we need to acknowledge that difficulty rather than just get mad at them for being out of touch (even if we have every right to be mad). Even happy-clappy-liberal-baby-boomers deserve to be embraced with charity.

 

[danizaga]

I’m a youngish Catholic revert who had a radical conversion of heart and returned in full force. I fell away in high school after I was scandalized by heretical catechisis, did a lot of things I’m not proud of, and purely by the Grace of God through the work of a very patient and humble priest who lives in the Confessional at my parish, I ended up back in the Church.

I attended some diocesan meeting/discussion about my generation of fallen away Catholics and how to get them back the other night. It was a joke. I found it rich that a group of people “of a certain age” were telling me why I, and many others like me, left the Church. When I told them what caused me to leave, and what caused me to return, several of the panel of priests actually scolded me for allowing myself to be scandalized and leaving.

Some of the various reasons the people there came up with for why we all left include:

• Mass is too boring
• Young people aren’t actively involved during Mass (IE: Being EMHC’s, Lectors, etc)
• They can’t relate to the music

Generally all pretty superficial, as were their reasons for how to get us to return. It’s as if no one believes in sanctifying and actual grace anymore, or that Faith is an infused theological virtue, that is corrupted and lost by one single sin contrary to it. The only way to get it back is via Confession and absolution. They think they need to use banal and superficial means to get young Catholics back in the church, so rather than let God do what he does best, they get in the way of him.

I wasn’t the only revert there, and those who spoke up, got the same condescending treatment. They want to bring young Catholics back, but they don’t want to listen to those of us who left and came back, I have yet to hear from a fallen away Catholic that the reason they left was because they weren’t distributing communion or reading at Mass. Quite the contrary, as many who seem to return, attend the EF Mass, where these are not options, nor is there happy clappy music.

i have to say for me it’s the quality of the homilies, not the music or being involved during mass. i know the priest is trying to reach everyone but i have to say for the most part homilies are completely lacking.

 

[danizaga]

Let me just preface this with saying I didn’t read the whole message board before I posted my first comments but now I’d like to expand on my why I think young Catholics “fall away.”

1. Homilies. Unimaginative re-reading of the readings is not a homily, neither is telling a story about this volunteer so and so and how much they do for the parish blah blah blah or telling me about the new fundraising campaign that we’re starting in March. I want my soul to be feed, so feed it already. You got me here, I’m sitting in the pew, give me a nugget anything that I can take away and carry with me to fuel me spiritually through the day. Which leads me to my second point…
2. Can’t connect to daily life. I’m sorry for thinking small but at this point I don’t care about the flavor of the month cause, the evils of Obamacare (which I’m actually excited about because I’ll have health insurance and medical care) or the Father so and so fund. I’m struggling with underemployment, sallie mae, dealing with my family, being single, losing weight/training for a marathon and having a social life on a shoe string budget. Please give me something that will nourish my stressed out soul, tell me how Catholicism directly affects my life and how it can help me.
3. My time is important. I’m not stupid, please don’t patronize me. Give me the facts, information, allow me to come up with my own questions and answer them when I ask them. If you can’t answer then get me the answer or just tell me you don’t know. I am educated and if I’m here there is a reason. Take me seriously give me what I need if not then I have things to do and places to go that meet my needs and organizations that want my skills, talent and time.
4. Unwelcoming parish communities. It doesn’t matter if it’s folk, Christian rock or all organ/incense/formal if the parish isn’t welcoming who is going to want to come back? Certainly not me, not unless it’s a beautiful environment and I like to worship in beauty otherwise peace I’m out. Parishes, especially my own are very clique, there are pros and cons to this behavior but I think it’s mostly cons because you need to work hard to get into the “in crowd” think Mean Girls catholic parish style.
5. Bad confessors. If I take time out of my Wednesday night to go to confession, clutching my guide to a good confession booklet which is all marked up with things I need to remember to tell the priest then pouring out my heart and soul feeling completely free and refreshed until I get “say 5 our fathers and 2 hail marys” then continuing with the rite. You got to be kidding me. That’s it? No advice on how to avoid the near occasions of sin or anything?! Something?! I took time out of my busy schedule to get my soul feed and I leave feeling disappointed. Is it me? Why didn’t I go to zumba instead? At least I’d feel refreshed and ready to take on the world. That’s what happened the last time I went to confession.
6. Other activities, organizations, groups allow me to use my talents/skills and hey guess what? They want me to be there they also respect my time and know that I can be doing something else so they don’t take me for granted. The church isn’t friendly in terms of activities for working people, let alone the coveted young adults’ population. The only time I could attend daily mass was when I was unemployed. All I’m saying is that confessions on Saturdays from 3-4p isn’t working and trying to find a priest for an appointment who is booked 5 weeks out is ridiculous. I got things to do commitments to keep, please update your bulletin with the correct mass times and confession times and if people leave you a message please call back in a reasonable amount of time. I don’t want to get a random call 3 months later inquiring if I call St. SO and SO about mass times.
   I recently posted on one of these message boards that I chose not to go to Mass. And I got a response along the lines “it’s a mortal sin you have to go.” No, I don’t have to go. I chose to go or not to go. Non-Mass going Catholics should be asked “why do they choose not to go to Mass? “

 

[apekatt]

I was very interested to read this thread since a lot of the comments reflect my experiences - I was brought up in a fairly liberal Catholic home, school and parish and drifted away from the church in my late teens. This wasn’t for any reason other than the fact that, although I identified as a vague sort of cultural Catholic, I didn’t feel a strong connection to my faith.

Then, about a year ago (I am now in my early thirties), I ended up tagging along to confession and Latin Mass with a friend. Going to confession was incredibly moving and made me feel as if I had been welcomed back to the church. I now attend Mass at that parish - a very traditional one - every week and although I still feel as if I am on the journey back to being a “proper Catholic”, I am much more involved and connected than I was growing up.

I wonder if lots of reverts end up being more traditional/orthodox than they were before they left the church? And why this might be, if so?

 

[JRKH]

I was very interested to read this thread since a lot of the comments reflect my experiences - I was brought up in a fairly liberal Catholic home, school and parish and drifted away from the church in my late teens. This wasn’t for any reason other than the fact that, although I identified as a vague sort of cultural Catholic, I didn’t feel a strong connection to my faith.

Then, about a year ago (I am now in my early thirties), I ended up tagging along to confession and Latin Mass with a friend. Going to confession was incredibly moving and made me feel as if I had been welcomed back to the church. I now attend Mass at that parish - a very traditional one - every week and although I still feel as if I am on the journey back to being a “proper Catholic”, I am much more involved and connected than I was growing up.

I wonder if lots of reverts end up being more traditional/orthodox than they were before they left the church? And why this might be, if so?

I can only speak from my own experience but I believe that this is true. The main reason would be the actual decision to return. A new conversion and mature decision to become (return) Catholic.
Such people are less likely to just “slide along”.

Peace
James

 

[chepner3]

I’m in my 50’s and my experience is completely opposite from what “JustAServant” described. I loved the changes made in Vatican II. What I experienced was honoring our entire Catholic history (good and bad) while also embracing our daily lives. I experienced a church that more fully embraced the definition of “catholic” - universal and of the people. The Catholic Church wasn’t a building or a hierarchy anymore. It was US.

Vatican II brought real hope.

I fell away as a young adult because I was busy. I became pre-occupied with boyfriends and college and working multiple jobs. I was either working on Sundays or it was the only day to sleep in (back in those days there was no Sunday evening ‘teen’ mass).

As I settled down, I returned to the church in fits and starts. The church as I had remembered it had changed. It had become “stodgy”. The ‘radical’ priest from my old parish had been replaced by order of a more conservative bishop. A lot of the programs that priest had started - programs that excited me into action because they reflected my values - survived in name only, if they survived at all.

I cast around for another parish and did finally find a welcoming parish home, thankfully, a church in the parish where I should technically be a member. At least there was no conflict there. I fell away again, first because of a serious physical illness, and stayed away because of lack of relationships (heck, no one even noticed that I wasn’t going to church any longer.)

And to reveal a part of my personal journey, I had NO faith during all this time. I went to church hoping to find faith. I went to church because I was born Catholic and identified as Catholic much the same way Jewish people identify as Jewish. Being Catholic is my heritage. It is at the core of who I am. I’m Catholic whether I go to church or not. I doggedly raised my daughter in the Catholic church and went for her. But but that confidence that comes with having a “testimony” escaped me.

Finally a few years ago, I had an “a-ha” moment - a gift of grace - and I received faith. Even though I’m a cradle Catholic, I still study the religion and seek support to live a fuller Catholic life. However, there are areas where the Church and I still disagree. I pray for revelation - on my part or the Pope’s - in hope that my values more fully blend with the Church’s dogma.

What drives me away:
~ The strict dogma.
~ The most recent return to the “traditional” church; overturning some of what happened during Vatican II.
~ Foreign priests (bless them for the difficult work they do) only because it is so hard to sit there for an hour and not understand a word that is being said in “English”, especially the homily.
~ Lack of Bible study classes or ‘faith formation’ classes for adults. I really miss having a real-life forum where I can talk to others about the Catholic faith. My old parish had an incredible lecture series but I’ve not found anything like that since moving. And years ago, I belonged to a “small faith group” within my parish which really energized me until the group broke up.
~ Lack of friendliness. While I loved the lecture series at my old parish, it was also one of the most unfriendly parishes I had ever known. For instance, if you didn’t sit in a pew but sat on the benches along the wall, NO ONE - not even the ushers - extended a hand to offer the sign of peace to you. It was weird.
~ Not utilizing volunteers. I’ve volunteered numerous times and have even sat through homilies where the priest begs for volunteers yet no one calls back or “rallies the troops”.
~ No inclusion for women like me - which is surprising since women are the traditional backbone of church activities. There is the teen / young adult group. There was the co-operative preschool. One church even had a "Red Hat Society. But there is no standing “women’s group” for females 25 thru 50’s. There is no support network for SAHM’s. There is nothing except showing up for Sunday mass and holiday days of obligation.

 

[danizaga]

What drives me away:
~ The strict dogma.
~ The most recent return to the “traditional” church; overturning some of what happened during Vatican II.

~ Foreign priests (bless them for the difficult work they do) only because it is so hard to sit there for an hour and not understand a word that is being said in “English”, especially the homily.

~ Lack of Bible study classes or ‘faith formation’ classes for adults. I really miss having a real-life forum where I can talk to others about the Catholic faith. My old parish had an incredible lecture series but I’ve not found anything like that since moving. And years ago, I belonged to a “small faith group” within my parish which really energized me until the group broke up.

~ Lack of friendliness. While I loved the lecture series at my old parish, it was also one of the most unfriendly parishes I had ever known. For instance, if you didn’t sit in a pew but sat on the benches along the wall, NO ONE - not even the ushers - extended a hand to offer the sign of peace to you. It was weird.

~ Not utilizing volunteers. I’ve volunteered numerous times and have even sat through homilies where the priest begs for volunteers yet no one calls back or “rallies the troops”.

~ No inclusion for women like me - which is surprising since women are the traditional backbone of church activities. There is the teen / young adult group. There was the co-operative preschool. One church even had a "Red Hat Society. But there is no standing “women’s group” for females 25 thru 50’s. There is no support network for SAHM’s. There is nothing except showing up for Sunday mass and holiday days of obligation.

i completely agree with you on all of your points. i’m in my 20s and everything you’d said resounds with me. i just wish someone was listening.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Keep in mind, a lot of what happened in Vatican II, wasn’t actually what the Vatican II documents said. The strict dogmas haven’t changed, and never will. What was once a mortal sin then, is still a mortal sin now. And yes, you are still required to attend Mass every Sunday. No one is going to put a gun to your head and force you to go, but if you choose not to got to Mass on Sunday, you are sinning gravely.

If you don’t accept what the Church teaches, then that’s a problem, but the Church does not and will not change its dogma to make us happy. The thing about sin is that the more you sin the dumber we get.

 

[Joe_5859]

I think a very important thing we always need to keep in mind is that priests are not mind readers nor can they compel people to do things.

If we want to see change in our parish, we need to take the initiative. “Be the change you want to see.”

If no one makes us feel welcome, we should be bending over backwards to make other people feel more welcome.

If there’s not a group of a particular demographic and/or organized around a certain topic, then start one.

God is the only one who can create ex nihilo. Parish groups don’t spring up out of nothing. There needs to be people who are dedicated who see it through and help to build it up.

The parish isn’t a place where we go and expect to receive and consume whatever spiritual good or service we think they ought to be offering. It’s not Walmart. The parish is not a place for us to take what we want, but a place for us to give to others in need.