Bringing up baby

[magisterfaust]

As a non catholic, in fact I have what you may refer to as “issues” around catholicism along with other branches of Christianity. many people raised within a particular religious community have not had their senses opened to other beliefs, paths of spirituality, be it Buddhism, Islamism, or Paganism. Surely the RIGHT thing to do would be allow the child to make an educated decision. Open their minds and eyes to other paths without being biased towards your own beliefs or critical of those you oppose. If my daughter one day tells me she wishes to be baptised, or become a follower of krishna or Gaia, then I shall support her and in no way attempt to persuade her to follow another path. Blind faith is a dangerous thing

 

[puzzleannie]

good idea, I won’t teach my child anything about nutrition, hygiene, political decisions and civic responsibility, ethics, or morality, or even how to treat her little brother, even though I may have deeply held opinions based on solid research, evidence, experience and advice of people wiser than I in those areas. I will let the little darling run her own way, make her own “choices” unhampered by any (name removed by moderator)ut from the parents who care about her. I will not share my beliefs and values with her, so she grows up in a vacuum thinking I have no beliefs and values. let’s give it a shot for one generation and see what we get.

 

[magisterfaust]

i will teach her right from wrong, about nutrition etc. What I meant was I think she should make her own choice when it comes to choosing a particular religious path if ever she decides. It doesnt matter which path she chooses, as long as she grows up with sound morals and nkowing right from wrong. apologies if i misled you

 

[agapewolf]

Magisterfaust, I think you aren’t getting the crossover…

Food…is physical nourishment. There are good foods and bad foods. It is well known that vegetables are good for you…processed ding dongs, not so much. It is an objective fact.

Same thing with spiritual nourishment. There is stuff thats good for you, and some that isn’t. Also objective.

And right and wrong, determined by society, doesn’t always match God’s right and wrong, which is also an objective truth.

We must nourish our children not only physically, and teach them what is good and bad, but also spiritually…how on earth can anyone think that letting their kid go blindly on the most important matter (the child’s eternal ETERNAL eternal …(which means forever) life?) would be a good thing?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Magisterfaust, with respect, if “religion” were simply a matter of a personal choice, like deciding whether to be a vegetarian, a Republican, or choosing a fashion style, your plan might make some sense. . .

But it is not.

Religion encompasses a person’s entire life. Knowledge of right from wrong, how a person looks at the world (worldview), comes from a religious foundation. And this is the case even if the person (or his/her parents) has systematically kept him/herself from actually following a particular religion–because the ‘denial’ or the nonpractice of religion is itself a quasi or pseudo religious system in itself.

So what you are planning is to in essence have yourself (along with your spouse) live as though YOU had no religious beliefs (lest you ‘contaminate’ your innocent child). . .while somehow ‘exposing’ said child to ALL the different beliefs (“Guess what, Junior/Buffy? THIS week we are going to learn ALL ABOUT BUDDHA and what Buddhists do. Next week it’s Allah, then the Mother Goddess, then we’re off on an exciting 52 week course of Christianity where each week we study a different Protestant denomination!!”)

Of course, you’ll also have to wait until your child is OLD enough to make an informed decision. So until then, you don’t discuss religion at all. You just do whatever seems best to YOU-- but oh wait–you might not realize it but you know what? Dollars to doughnuts Junior and Buffy are going to want to do, at 18 or so, just what you have been doing all along. No church, no talk of God, no talk of anything ‘religious’, no observance (I mean, why ruin Sunday sleeping in, or sports, by going to some dumb Church if you don’t HAVE to?). And even IF you are lucky and Junior and Buffy haven’t been spoiled irretrievably by your lack of parenting (and depriving them of a religious heritage IS a lack) and actually do “Choose” a religion. . .

Guess what? YOU have deprived them for 18 years or more from the practice of their religion. And since we know that while one can (and does) ‘learn’ throughout one’s life, one learns best and most quickly in youth, you’ve also kept your child from learning about religion at a time he is best suited to learn. While HE is just starting, his peers will have had 18 years of ‘practice’.

Imaging this scenario in anything other than ‘religion’. . .you’d be brought into court for neglect. Why is religion both so ‘important’ that you don’t want to ‘force’ it on your child, yet so UNIMPORTANT that you would keep it from them for decades?

 

[puzzleannie]

i will teach her right from wrong, about nutrition etc. What I meant was I think she should make her own choice when it comes to choosing a particular religious path if ever she decides. It doesnt matter which path she chooses, as long as she grows up with sound morals and nkowing right from wrong. apologies if i misled you

why would you let her choose her own morality and religion, but not allow her freedom in other critical areas that will impact her life and happiness? that seems very inconsistent.

 

[magisterfaust]

why would you let her choose her own morality and religion, but not allow her freedom in other critical areas that will impact her life and happiness? that seems very inconsistent.

I will allow her to have freedom. as long as she becomes a good person who is warm hearted towards those who she meets throughout her life. As long as she is not spiteful and hurtful towards others then i don’t mind if she chooses to worship God, Allah or Gaia. To Tantum Ergo. I never said I would expose her to other beliefs, but i would tru to be as honest as i can wihout being critical or biased, and treae each belief/religion with equal respect. If she wished to learn about any particular religion, then I would not prevent her from doing so, but to not be disrepectful if she did not agree with what she has discovered.

 

[kettle]

First, you make the dangerous assumption that my family’s faith is blind. I have partaken in more faiths/religions than I care to recount. I consider myself well-educated in religions, both in scholarly terms and in experience. It is the result of my education and experience that I am in the process of my conversion, together with my family.

Second, my children will also learn about different religions, all the while being reared in the Catholic faith, in a Catholic household, by Catholic parents. If they choose, as adults, to turn their faces away from the Truth, then that decision is between themselves and God.

*edited to add afterthoughts.

 

[Pious_Mat]

i will teach her right from wrong, about nutrition etc. What I meant was I think she should make her own choice when it comes to choosing a particular religious path if ever she decides. It doesnt matter which path she chooses, as long as she grows up with sound morals and nkowing right from wrong. apologies if i misled you

Doesn’t this kind of relegate religion to a second-class entity that is neither necessary or encouraged?

Funny thing about children who are raised this way–they still manage to adopt their parents’ belief system in most cases: indifferentism.

Also, the effect of not showing a child that you have firm existential beliefs and a grasp your own greater purpose in life may leave them spiritually empty and incapable of making spiritual decisions at all.

Lastly, if a child doesn’t like a particular belief system, they are probably going to leave it regardless of what Mom and Dad taught them. That said, I will certainly agree with you that a parent should love their child regardless of what the child choses to believe.

Before I sign off, I just want to comment on your “blind faith being bad” comment in the OP. Blind faith is bad if we look at religion from a secular, non-spiritual point of view “all things being equal…” However, as you and I know, religion doesn’t work that way. If it did, people would join the Catholic Church for the free wine. The person whom I believe to God incarnate (Jesus Christ) said that in order to enter the kingdom of Heaven, we must have child-like (what you would call blind) faith. Come to think of it, isn’t faith by definition kind of “blind”? After all, God is not accepted or regected based on His scientific merits (I’m sure he would laugh at that), but rather on a completely internal shift of paradigm which we Catholics like to think was caused by the Holy Ghost’s intervention.

Yours respectfully,

Mat.

 

[jkarp]

As a non catholic, in fact I have what you may refer to as “issues” around catholicism along with other branches of Christianity. many people raised within a particular religious community have not had their senses opened to other beliefs, paths of spirituality, be it Buddhism, Islamism, or Paganism. Surely the RIGHT thing to do would be allow the child to make an educated decision. Open their minds and eyes to other paths without being biased towards your own beliefs or critical of those you oppose. If my daughter one day tells me she wishes to be baptised, or become a follower of krishna or Gaia, then I shall support her and in no way attempt to persuade her to follow another path. Blind faith is a dangerous thing

This is a good example of the rampant misunderstanding of matrimony. During a Catholic marriage ceremony, the couple not only vows themselves to each other, but also to be open to life and to raise whatever lives may occur as a result of the union in the Catholic faith. Further, when bringing a child into the Catholic family (through the sacrament of baptism), the parents of the child choose godparents, to fulfill the role of raising the children in the faith if the parents are not able to (death, incapacitation, laziness, etc.)

Further, if allowing children to make (educated?) decisions themselves is the “RIGHT” thing to do, why don’t we allow them to make other decisions regarding their lives until their adults (can’t drive until 16-17, can’t vote until 18, can’t drink until 21, etc.)?

If it is the role of parents to help a child make correct decisions regarding the child’s mortal life, why is not the role of parents to help a child to make correct decisions regarding the child’s immortal life?

 

[magisterfaust]

WOW!!! I never expected such a response, but thanx to all of you who took the time to reply. You have certianly given me food for thought . If some of my comments have offended, or upset anyone, A BIG SORRY. :newidea:

 

[mercygate]

i will teach her right from wrong, about nutrition etc. What I meant was I think she should make her own choice when it comes to choosing a particular religious path if ever she decides. It doesnt matter which path she chooses, as long as she grows up with sound morals and nkowing right from wrong. apologies if i misled you

It is your responsibility not only to teach her right from wrong but actually to know what right and wrong really are. It is your responsibility to guide her into the truth as best you know it. And much Truth CAN be known by the use of reason.

Believe me, your daughter WILL choose her own path, and there will be nothing you can do to stop her, whether you teach her anything or not.

OK: so I see this from a Christian POV. For us, without even opening a Bible, the meaning of life is wrapped up the essential dignity of our personhood, which, by the use of raw reason, completely unencumbered by revelation, we know entails a relationship with the Creator responsible for our being on earth.

 

[BeluvdLily]

Magisterfaust:

I do not find your comments offensive at all but I do respectfully disagree. I may have even been inclined to think this way before having a child but now I do not. I understand your desire to allow them to choose their own way but children are not always equipped to make the best decisions.

I think we really owe it to bring our children up to love God and develop a strong faith just as we owe it to them to provide for their other needs. It is critical. We are our children’s first line of defense against the world and if we don’t get to them first, trust me, peers and society will. I know firsthand.

Of course, if they become adults and choose another faith, there is nothing we can do but gently speak with them and love them and let them know why we believe what we believe and PRAY, PRAY, PRAY turning them over to God. At least we’ve done the right thing in giving them a strong foundation.

It is not a matter of forcing them into anything. It is giving them a strong and loving foundation and trust me, as the mother of a 19 year old son, they need it! There is no shortage of people and evils and things that will try to lead them astray and even a child who temporarily goes astray is much more likely to return to their faith as they mature if they have that basis.

We owe them that much at least. It’s no different than protecting them from predators or teaching them to say no to drugs or anything else. They need our guidance desperately. We are their examples and they do look to us for that.

Amie

 

[Delphinus85]

I will allow her to have freedom. as long as she becomes a good person who is warm hearted towards those who she meets throughout her life. As long as she is not spiteful and hurtful towards others then i don’t mind if she chooses to worship God, Allah or Gaia. To Tantum Ergo. I never said I would expose her to other beliefs, but i would tru to be as honest as i can wihout being critical or biased, and treae each belief/religion with equal respect. If she wished to learn about any particular religion, then I would not prevent her from doing so, but to not be disrepectful if she did not agree with what she has discovered.

So what if she grows up, becomes catholic and tells you that your opinion is totally wrong? Will you not try to atlk her out of it? or will you be supportive of her belief that the only way to lead a truly loving, fulfilled life is in christ? If you talk her out of that belief as you are trying to talk us out of it, is not an “accepting” and “supportive” thing to do. I’m sorry but your arguement is extremely inconsistent.

 

[fix]

A Surely the RIGHT thing to do would be allow the child to make an educated decision. Open their minds and eyes to other paths without being biased towards your own beliefs or critical of those you oppose… Blind faith is a dangerous thing

How do you know what is true?

 

[Regi]

I have a sister who fell away from the Catholic church many years ago. She decided to not baptize her 3 boys and “let them choose”. Well, guess what, they had no foundation to choose from, so they choose to follow no religious beliefs,

It is now many years later and her children were grown. She regrets her decision to “let them choose” now and would advise anyone against doing so.

 

[bluerose]

i will teach her right from wrong, about nutrition etc. What I meant was I think she should make her own choice when it comes to choosing a particular religious path if ever she decides. It doesnt matter which path she chooses, as long as she grows up with sound morals and nkowing right from wrong. apologies if i misled you

“sound morals”. “knowing right from wrong”. Hmm.

According to whom?

Some people think premarital sex is okay, drug abuse is okay, divorce is okay, and murder is okay.

Let’s consider murder. If you’re an Islamic extremist, called by Allah to wage a holy war on infidels (that’s the rest of us, by the way), then murder is okay, right?

Oh, wait, that’s not “murder”! That’s “jihad”, right?

Or what if you want to kill the child in your womb?

Oh, THAT’S not murder, that’s “terminating a pregnancy”, “making a choice” or “having an abortion”.

Define “sound morals” and “knowing right from wrong”, guess what? YOU’RE IMPOSING YOUR BELIEFS–RELIGIOUS OR NOT–ON YOUR CHILD!

 

[stbruno]

Do you ask your child if they want to be vaccinated? You do it not only because it is required by law but it also has proven to have life saving properties.

Same thing with our faith. We know, Jesus has taught us that He is the way, the truth and the life and whoever follows me will have life eternal.

Faith equals life eternal. Teaching your child the faith which you profess means that you love your child so much that you want them to have life eternal …someday through God’s mercy you will be reunited. So why would you risk your child missing what Jesus told us himself will gain life eternal. Of course, they have the free will to not follow Jesus, but as parents, we need to help them make right choices.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

 

[LilyM]

As a non catholic, in fact I have what you may refer to as “issues” around catholicism along with other branches of Christianity. many people raised within a particular religious community have not had their senses opened to other beliefs, paths of spirituality, be it Buddhism, Islamism, or Paganism. Surely the RIGHT thing to do would be allow the child to make an educated decision. Open their minds and eyes to other paths without being biased towards your own beliefs or critical of those you oppose. If my daughter one day tells me she wishes to be baptised, or become a follower of krishna or Gaia, then I shall support her and in no way attempt to persuade her to follow another path. Blind faith is a dangerous thing

I have to disagree with this. Your children will, and make their own decisions faithwise. All children no matter what their upbringing go through a period when they do this.

And it’s anything but a certainty that that child will continue in the faith they were raised in. Its not like the Catholic Church ever holds a gun to anyone’s head who doesn’t want to believe, and there are many who as adults leave the Church.

The problem with your proposal is that someone who’s brought up in an ‘all faiths are equal’ mindset also tends to absorb an ‘all faiths are equally worthless’ mindset and is much more likely to end up following no faith at all.