Britain's Papal Visit Fallout

[Ockham]

Damian Thompson of the UK’s Telegraph is writing about the scandal that nearly occurred over the music for the Papal Mass in London. Composer James MacMillan was commissioned to write a new arrangement, but certain ‘liturgists’ opposed it as being too traditional. They lost. It’s an example of the “spirit of V2” crowd losing their power and influence and should give traditional Catholics encouragement and hope that we’re rebuilding albeit slowly.

Excerpt:

“There’s a liturgical culture war going on here and, for the first time in 40 years, the liberals sense that they’re on the losing side. Bishop Conry makes it sound as if the casus belli is the use of Latin, and indeed he’s been very thorough indeed in discouraging the use of the ancient language in his diocese of Arundel and Brighton. Also, I gather that certain bishops are putting pressure on seminary directors not to teach their students too much Latin. A few years ago, they needn’t have worried: seminarians didn’t want to learn it. Now the students don’t wait for permission from their seminary to teach themselves the venerable prayers (and, when no one is looking, the rubrics of the older form of the Roman Rite). This is causing dismay verging on panic among the more hardline soixante-huitards of the Magic Circle.”

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100061052/as-the-campaign-against-james-macmillan-shows-the-enemies-of-traditional-catholic-worship-are-starting-to-panic/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[At_Trent]

Google “bishop refuses to allow tlm” and look at all the reports.

 

[Winstone]

Damian Thompson of the UK’s Telegraph is writing about the scandal that nearly occurred over the music for the Papal Mass in London. Composer James MacMillan was commissioned to write a new arrangement, but certain ‘liturgists’ opposed it as being too traditional. They lost. It’s an example of the “spirit of V2” crowd losing their power and influence and should give traditional Catholics encouragement and hope that we’re rebuilding albeit slowly.

Excerpt:

“There’s a liturgical culture war going on here and, for the first time in 40 years, the liberals sense that they’re on the losing side. Bishop Conry makes it sound as if the casus belli is the use of Latin, and indeed he’s been very thorough indeed in discouraging the use of the ancient language in his diocese of Arundel and Brighton. Also, I gather that certain bishops are putting pressure on seminary directors not to teach their students too much Latin. A few years ago, they needn’t have worried: seminarians didn’t want to learn it. Now the students don’t wait for permission from their seminary to teach themselves the venerable prayers (and, when no one is looking, the rubrics of the older form of the Roman Rite). This is causing dismay verging on panic among the more hardline soixante-huitards of the Magic Circle.”

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100061052/as-the-campaign-against-james-macmillan-shows-the-enemies-of-traditional-catholic-worship-are-starting-to-panic/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[campion]

Can we get a link to the music composition???

 

[ProVobis]

Well, if we knew we were going to get such a negative feedback, the Pope could just as easily have said the TLM.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

As I see it the Bishop is relatively powerless in this regard. The Supreme Pontiff has given permission for the TLM to be celebrated; no need to get Bishop’s permission. Although a few prelates appear to have mis-read/misunderstood SP.

 

[ConstantineTG]

As I see it the Bishop is relatively powerless in this regard. The Supreme Pontiff has given permission for the TLM to be celebrated; no need to get Bishop’s permission. Although a few prelates appear to have mis-read/misunderstood SP.

Actually a Diocesan Bishop has the authority to regulate all Liturgy in his diocese, whether its OF, TLM, OF in a different language, etc. This is what SP says, notice my highlight:

Art. 2. In Masses celebrated without the people, each Catholic priest of the Latin rite, whether secular or regular, may use the Roman Missal published by Bl. Pope John XXIII in 1962, or the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970, and may do so on any day with the exception of the Easter Triduum. For such celebrations, with either one Missal or the other, the priest has no need for permission from the Apostolic See or from his Ordinary.

So in the context of the article, permission is not needed for private Masses only. Although people are free to join the priest in the private Mass. Ultimately all public Masses are regulated and controlled by the Bishop within his diocese. Its part of his duty and authority.

edit to add:
The only thing I cannot find in the SP is if a parish wishes to switch an already approved Mass time from OF to EF. But I guess its still subject to approval, in the same way if they want to switch the OF from English to OF French. But I am unsure.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Actually a Diocesan Bishop has the authority to regulate all Liturgy in his diocese, whether its OF, TLM, OF in a different language, etc. This is what SP says, notice my highlight:

So in the context of the article, permission is not needed for private Masses only. Although people are free to join the priest in the private Mass. Ultimately all public Masses are regulated and controlled by the Bishop within his diocese. Its part of his duty and authority.

edit to add:
The only thing I cannot find in the SP is if a parish wishes to switch an already approved Mass time from OF to EF. But I guess its still subject to approval, in the same way if they want to switch the OF from English to OF French. But I am unsure.

OK, it’s too late and I’m too tired to go through SP to find a loophole in your argument

I was under the impression that SP gave a much greater freedom to priests as opposed to the permissions given by JPII which did require bishops to give permission. I thought Benedict XVI was more savvy than that like the way he’s going to set up ordinariates for former Anglicans which will be under the control of the CDF so local bishops cannot put obstacles in their way.

 

[ConstantineTG]

OK, it’s too late and I’m too tired to go through SP to find a loophole in your argument

I was under the impression that SP gave a much greater freedom to priests as opposed to the permissions given by JPII which did require bishops to give permission. I thought Benedict XVI was more savvy than that like the way he’s going to set up ordinariates for former Anglicans which will be under the control of the CDF so local bishops cannot put obstacles in their way.

I don’t think the Vatican will issue a document that will undermine the authority of the Bishop within his own diocese. SP for sure wasn’t meant to do that. While it affirmed the place of the EF Mass in the Roman Catholic Church, it also didn’t mean to supercede any Episcopal privilage or authority that Bishop of every diocese possesses. Its a common misconception by many that because of the SP that any priest can celebrate the EF without the permission of the Bishop. Yes, but only in private. A public Mass no matter the form would need permission.

 

[archangel04]

Truly sad indeed, but as these “modernist” sence their time for curtain call is comming they are going to launch all they have! So this won’t be the last we hear about these types of situations.

 

[Ockham]

OK, it’s too late and I’m too tired to go through SP to find a loophole in your argument

I was under the impression that SP gave a much greater freedom to priests as opposed to the permissions given by JPII which did require bishops to give permission. I thought Benedict XVI was more savvy than that like the way he’s going to set up ordinariates for former Anglicans which will be under the control of the CDF so local bishops cannot put obstacles in their way.

You are correct. If a priest wants to say the EF he does not require his bishop’s approval per say. Bishops are the moderators of the liturgy, but Pope Benedict XVI gave the priest freedom to say either form.

Here’s good advice as to how to approach a priest with this request:

unavoce.org/s-p-resources/requesting-tlm-post-sp/