Brother in law is coming out

[Christ_is_Risen]

I need some advice. My BIL is gay. My wife and I have known for awhile now, but he has finally decided to make it known to the rest of the family. The issue is that his coming out is not just about being gay, the letter he sent to the family was also a nasty and ill tempered proclamation about not being Christian, what is wrong with GO church (my wife’s family and kids are Greek) and how Christianity is a blight on modern society.

My wife is really stressed. Her mom is from the old country and has NO CLUE that her son is gay, even though it has been really clear to many of us for awhile. She keeps asking him about why he doesn’t have a girlfriend, mentions marriage, kids, and so forth. My wife is legitimately concerned that this will hit her mom like a ton of bricks, and she won’t be able to process, understand, or accept it.

So, here is the problem. My wife is projecting her concerns about this onto me. I am Catholic, I follow the Church’s teaching on homosexuality. But at the same time I have gay friends and coworkers and am nothing but kind to them. I accept that no matter what I think, all people should be treated with compassion and love. Yet, because she knows that I am not in favor of things like gay marriage, she thinks I will be the problem.

My position was pretty clear:

1. We will address her brother’s lifestyle with our daughters at an age appropriate level. We will admit that people are free to make their own choices in life, and in America, people are free to marry who they want. But, as a religious family, our Churches believe marriage is between a man and a woman.
2. I am completely comfortable offering acceptance of her brother’s choice of lifestyle, but also expect him to be accepting of our lifestyle. We are a religious family and we are raising our children to know and love God, so anti-Christian sentiment isn’t welcome around my children, and that I will defend my faith if it comes under attack.

She knows what that means. I am no expert compared to many of the posters here, but I take my faith seriously, know a good bit about it, and am very experienced in debate. Her brother is impetuous, younger, and angry right now. In short, it wouldn’t be a fair fight, and I would hurt his feelings and make him look uninformed before I would allow my children to think that defending Christ is something we don’t do in polite company.

My wife thinks this position is unreasonable, and that I should just keep my mouth shut and not cause trouble if her brother goes off on Christians. I feel I would be a huge hypocrite if I act like she wants me to, and would be failing my children as the spiritual head of my household.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Or have any advice on how to help show my wife that I will continue to be accepting and loving of her brother, but that it is important he understand that the anti-Christian “coming out” is something he needs to keep to himself around our kids unless he wants a serious conversation on the topic that is almost certainly going to end with his lack of real knowledge being exposed and him feeling embarrassed?

Lastly, how do I point out that if she feels her mother is the real issue, she needs to deal with that, and not start throwing stones at her husband who already knows her brother is gay and has been accepting it for awhile now without issue?

 

[epan]

I need some advice. My BIL is gay. My wife and I have known for awhile now, but he has finally decided to make it known to the rest of the family. The issue is that his coming out is not just about being gay, the letter he sent to the family was also a nasty and ill tempered proclamation about not being Christian, what is wrong with GO church (my wife’s family and kids are Greek) and how Christianity is a blight on modern society.

My wife is really stressed. Her mom is from the old country and has NO CLUE that her son is gay, even though it has been really clear to many of us for awhile. She keeps asking him about why he doesn’t have a girlfriend, mentions marriage, kids, and so forth. My wife is legitimately concerned that this will hit her mom like a ton of bricks, and she won’t be able to process, understand, or accept it.

So, here is the problem. My wife is projecting her concerns about this onto me. I am Catholic, I follow the Church’s teaching on homosexuality. But at the same time I have gay friends and coworkers and am nothing but kind to them. I accept that no matter what I think, all people should be treated with compassion and love. Yet, because she knows that I am not in favor of things like gay marriage, she thinks I will be the problem.

My position was pretty clear:

1. We will address her brother’s lifestyle with our daughters at an age appropriate level. We will admit that people are free to make their own choices in life, and in America, people are free to marry who they want. But, as a religious family, our Churches believe marriage is between a man and a woman.
2. I am completely comfortable offering acceptance of her brother’s choice of lifestyle, but also expect him to be accepting of our lifestyle. We are a religious family and we are raising our children to know and love God, so anti-Christian sentiment isn’t welcome around my children, and that I will defend my faith if it comes under attack.

She knows what that means. I am no expert compared to many of the posters here, but I take my faith seriously, know a good bit about it, and am very experienced in debate. Her brother is impetuous, younger, and angry right now. In short, it wouldn’t be a fair fight, and I would hurt his feelings and make him look uninformed before I would allow my children to think that defending Christ is something we don’t do in polite company.

My wife thinks this position is unreasonable, and that I should just keep my mouth shut and not cause trouble if her brother goes off on Christians. I feel I would be a huge hypocrite if I act like she wants me to, and would be failing my children as the spiritual head of my household.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Or have any advice on how to help show my wife that I will continue to be accepting and loving of her brother, but that it is important he understand that the anti-Christian “coming out” is something he needs to keep to himself around our kids unless he wants a serious conversation on the topic that is almost certainly going to end with his lack of real knowledge being exposed and him feeling embarrassed?

Lastly, how do I point out that if she feels her mother is the real issue, she needs to deal with that, and not start throwing stones at her husband who already knows her brother is gay and has been accepting it for awhile now without issue?

It’s really fascinating, and also saddening, the justifications for bigotry during times of social change. But we are all imperfect. Good luck.

 

[pensmama87]

It’s really fascinating, and also saddening, the justifications for bigotry during times of social change. But we are all imperfect. Good luck.

Yes, it is too bad that the personal struggles of the OP’s BIL make him feel it is acceptable to bash the faith of his family. He needs our prayers.

OP: Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t try to turn it into a debate and give him more opportunity to vent. I would say, “I’m sorry, but this is not an appropriate discussion in front of the children. Please pass the mashed potatoes” (or whatever) and if he continues, then your family should leave.

You can attempt to make it clear to your BIL (actually, it should be your wife as it sounds like it’s her brother?) that it is NOT the fact that he is gay, it’s his completely inappropriate social behavior and insults toward your religion, that are leading you to react this way. He may refuse to accept that and that’s his right, but at least you can enforce appropriate social boundaries this way. If he wants to end up rejected by your entire family, he is free to do so, but who wants to invite the mean relative to anything, regardless of how justified they feel they are in their meanness?

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, it is too bad that the personal struggles of the OP’s BIL make him feel it is acceptable to bash the faith of his family. He needs our prayers.

OP: Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t try to turn it into a debate and give him more opportunity to vent. I would say, “I’m sorry, but this is not an appropriate discussion in front of the children. Please pass the mashed potatoes” (or whatever) and if he continues, then your family should leave.

You can attempt to make it clear to your BIL (actually, it should be your wife as it sounds like it’s her brother?) that it is NOT the fact that he is gay, it’s his completely inappropriate social behavior and insults toward your religion, that are leading you to react this way. He may refuse to accept that and that’s his right, but at least you can enforce appropriate social boundaries this way. If he wants to end up rejected by your entire family, he is free to do so, but who wants to invite the mean relative to anything, regardless of how justified they feel they are in their meanness?

Yeah.

For goodness sake, don’t debate your BIL. Nobody in the history of the world has ever “won” a debate with their BIL. But make arrangements with your wife that as soon as things get hot at a family get-together that you guys are going home. She can see him individually and talk to him herself and they can talk as much as they want.

Oh, and somebody needs to talk to Greek Orthodox mom. Maybe your wife?

Next question up: what to do when he shows up at a family event with a gentleman friend.

Edited to add: I have a horrible (or at least difficult) BIL that is continually saying awful things. Family policy is to just nice him to death. My family is WASP. We are EXCELLENT at nicing people to death. Give it a try.

 

[Lu_Lu_Lucy]

It seems this is happening a lot these days… my sister called me the other day that she was now engaged with a trans gender woman… She has been married 3 times previously and has 3 wonderful, adult children from her second marriage. I love her and did not know what to say. I told her I wanted her to be happy and that I would always love her. I was shocked and did not know how to respond to this. It is alarming when it is such a close family member, and they become someone you feel you don’t know at all. She makes it all sound so happy and wonderful, but I really worry about her eternal soul. It reminds me of when Jesus said, something to the effect as, what good does it do a man to gain the whole world if he looses his eternal soul. She has never been attracted to women before that I know of. This person was a man when she met him years ago. Their children went to the same school and they were acquaintances.He/she has 3 grown children from his former marriage. How confused they must be with all of this. Any ideas on how to gently speak to my sister about what a bad idea this is? She already thinks I am a prude I think…Anyway, we are both in a predicament and our society tells us we are wrong for not going along with this as “normal”.

God bless and I will pray for your situation. It’s awful that your marriage is effected by it. You can get through this with God’s help. Don’t give up.

 

[Christ_is_Risen]

Yes, it is too bad that the personal struggles of the OP’s BIL make him feel it is acceptable to bash the faith of his family. He needs our prayers.

OP: Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn’t try to turn it into a debate and give him more opportunity to vent. I would say, “I’m sorry, but this is not an appropriate discussion in front of the children. Please pass the mashed potatoes” (or whatever) and if he continues, then your family should leave.

You can attempt to make it clear to your BIL (actually, it should be your wife as it sounds like it’s her brother?) that it is NOT the fact that he is gay, it’s his completely inappropriate social behavior and insults toward your religion, that are leading you to react this way. He may refuse to accept that and that’s his right, but at least you can enforce appropriate social boundaries this way. If he wants to end up rejected by your entire family, he is free to do so, but who wants to invite the mean relative to anything, regardless of how justified they feel they are in their meanness?

That is pretty much the issue. My BIL chose a very angry, and off topic, way to come out to the rest of the family. My wife did mention that this wasn’t the best way to do it, and to focus on what he is really trying to say about himself, not be negative about others.

It is just a field of landmines for me. I thought it would be OK to mention that my wife should talk to him about us being a religious family and to respect our beliefs around the kids. I think she feels that would be unsupportive of her brother and making demands on him. I am trying to be proactive and head off any big conflicts around the dinner table before they happen, but it hard to talk to my wife about this right now.

 

[LSZ1318]

Have you seen your BIL since the letter?

 

[Mr_Clean]

I’m not sure what I would do but if someone in my family tried to slam my faith in front of my kids in a nasty way I promise you it would be a long time before the dust would settle. They would certainly be shown the door.

 

[LSZ1318]

There is only one way for you to respond to him and the entire situation:

With total and complete Love.

God is giving you a golden opportunity here - as he does with all struggles and strife. You have an opportunity to truly practice your Faith. When you next see your BIL embrace him. Tell him that above all else you love him. Resist any temptation to be drawn into conflict or anger. The devil, believe me man, is going to try and get you to fall into that trap. No good whatsoever will come from angry conflict. None. Zero. Zilch.

Debating or defending the Faith? There’s a time and a place for that, and this isn’t it. We’re probably talking about someone that has had anger and resentment building in him for ages, and he’s spoiling for a fight. In fact, if you get drawn into one it will probably get ugly quick and that will only confirm his opinion about Christianity. Evil wins in that scenario. It would feel awesome to destroy him, but think of the wreckage beyond the moment.

If anti-Christian sentiment in family situations starts to occur, there’s again only one way to handle it…with love. First thing is that no matter how difficult, you and your wife need to agree on an exact course of action for any given scenario. You both need to be on the same page here. Since it’s her brother, I’d let her take the lead with the scenario planning.

The vital thing, and I can’t stress this enough, is don’t react how he expects you to react. If you let Christ guide you fully and completely in this matter there is no doubt that your BIL will be touched by the Holy Spirit

I’ve gone on too long here and hope you don’t find my statements presumptive.

 

[Christ_is_Risen]

Have you seen your BIL since the letter?

No, it was sent out this week, and he lives up north now. It could be months before we see him. I think the reason for dropping the bombshell is that his parents are going up for an extended visit next month, and his lifestyle may be to the point now where it will be too apparent to ignore that he is gay.

He has always been a pretty even-keeled guy around the family, so I am hoping the anti-Christian sentiment in person won’t match what he decided to put in print.

What is frustrating is that I want to help make this as less stressful for my wife and him as possible, but by commingling this very vocal and pointed rejection of Christianity with his coming out as being gay makes me feel like my family needs to make our position about what we believe and want for our children clear up front, before a big blow-up happens.

I am just the bad guy right now because I told my wife in a time of stress for her that tolerance of others is a two way street, and gave notice that I wouldn’t back down in front of our kids if her brother starts to attack the faith. The timing was my mistake, but I feel like I have to stand with Christ if he comes under attack, even from a family member.

 

[Christ_is_Risen]

There is only one way for you to respond to him and the entire situation:

With total and complete Love.

God is giving you a golden opportunity here - as he does with all struggles and strife. You have an opportunity to truly practice your Faith. When you next see your BIL embrace him. Tell him that above all else you love him. Resist any temptation to be drawn into conflict or anger. The devil, believe me man, is going to try and get you to fall into that trap. No good whatsoever will come from angry conflict. None. Zero. Zilch.

Debating or defending the Faith? There’s a time and a place for that, and this isn’t it. We’re probably talking about someone that has had anger and resentment building in him for ages, and he’s spoiling for a fight. In fact, if you get drawn into one it will probably get ugly quick and that will only confirm his opinion about Christianity. Evil wins in that scenario. It would feel awesome to destroy him, but think of the wreckage beyond the moment.

If anti-Christian sentiment in family situations starts to occur, there’s again only one way to handle it…with love. First thing is that no matter how difficult, you and your wife need to agree on an exact course of action for any given scenario. You both need to be on the same page here. Since it’s her brother, I’d let her take the lead with the scenario planning.

The vital thing, and I can’t stress this enough, is don’t react how he expects you to react. If you let Christ guide you fully and completely in this matter there is no doubt that your BIL will be touched by the Holy Spirit

I’ve gone on too long here and hope you don’t find my statements presumptive.

No, it isn’t presumptive. It is a the kind of balance I need to hear as I work through this.

 

[Havard]

No, it was sent out this week, and he lives up north now. It could be months before we see him. I think the reason for dropping the bombshell is that his parents are going up for an extended visit next month, and his lifestyle may be to the point now where it will be too apparent to ignore that he is gay.

He has always been a pretty even-keeled guy around the family, so I am hoping the anti-Christian sentiment in person won’t match what he decided to put in print.

What is frustrating is that I want to help make this as less stressful for my wife and him as possible, but by commingling this very vocal and pointed rejection of Christianity with his coming out as being gay makes me feel like my family needs to make our position about what we believe and want for our children clear up front, before a big blow-up happens.

I am just the bad guy right now because I told my wife in a time of stress for her that tolerance of others is a two way street, and gave notice that I wouldn’t back down in front of our kids if her brother starts to attack the faith. The timing was my mistake, but I feel like I have to stand with Christ if he comes under attack, even from a family member.

Best piece of advice I can possibly offer you:

youtube.com/watch?v=iS8AXZdfq1g

Specifically, watch from 17:18-18:50. I could never have said it any better than this. Hope it helps, and prayers offered for you all.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Your brother-in-law:

a. sometimes feels like a monster, because of his attractions.
b. envies people who are “normal”.
c. feels like (if God exists) God made him this way.
d. feels like (if God exists) God must hate him.
e. is terribly afraid of losing his family, and is not necessarily willing to play fair.
f. feels that he is God’s rival, and he is in competition with God for your family’s love and devotion.
g. fears being alone, and is not sure that any romantic relationship – however desirable – will make him feel less alone.

Presumptuous list? Heck yeah. But … I myself am attracted to other guys, so I’m not exactly shooting in the dark here. Growing up in a deeply religious context brings out all the emotions I discussed above.

The challenge here is treating him lovingly and gently, but at the same time not pandering to him or being manipulated by him. Your wife needs to see his histrionics as what they are: attempts to manipulate her. I don’t blame him for them, not at all. But he needs to grow beyond them. We’re only that zealous about things we don’t really believe in.

Make him feel like an insider, like nothing he could ever do would change how much he BELONGS. But at the same time, gently direct things so that he has the opportunity to be respectful of other people’s values – which he surely ought to think is important, if he wants other people to be respectful of his!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Perhaps your wife needs a bit of time to calm down a bit. Then you talk about setting boundaries of decent behaviour that apply to everyone, even close family.

I think you are absolutely right to put your foot down and not allow people to disrespect your faith in front of your children. You are setting the example for the kids here. And yes, tolerance and respect is a 2 way street.

 

[Christ_is_Risen]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I really appreciate it.

 

[underacloud]

For goodness sake, don’t debate your BIL. Nobody in the history of the world has ever “won” a debate with their BIL. But make arrangements with your wife that as soon as things get hot at a family get-together that you guys are going home. She can see him individually and talk to him herself and they can talk as much as they want.

Yes, there’s nothing to be gained from arguing with him.

And keep in mind that while you may think you’re more informed and the better debater, your children will lack the knowledge to see this. All they will see is you and uncle whats-his-name fighting and it may be a 50:50 bet as to whether they see this as noble on your part or mean (ie “picking on uncle whats-his-name”).

Or we could put it this way: “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

I think you should set boundaries, but in terms of how to enforce them, I would simply leave the conversation when it heads in that direction, and make sure the children are elsewhere. My BIL has a habit of saying disparaging things about traditional marriage, but I let my wife argue the point with him while I make sure the children are entertained elsewhere - it’s just not an age-appropriate issue for them right now.

There’s also the point that families often have a way of arguing/fighting that an in-law will never properly understand. And they can often brush it off later with little fuss. I don’t get into arguments with my wife’s siblings - even though I want to at times - but let her deal with them. And she bites her tongue around my family too (which I’ll hear about later, of course). I can say things to my family that she couldn’t really get away with. I suggest you largely leave it to your sister and mother to talk with the BIL, while you focus on shielding your children from all the fuss until things settle.

Of course, if/when he wants to bring a partner to family events, you’ll need to review how to handle things. But cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

[Xantippe]

And keep in mind that while you may think you’re more informed and the better debater, your children will lack the knowledge to see this. All they will see is you and uncle whats-his-name fighting and it may be a 50:50 bet as to whether they see this as noble on your part or mean (ie “picking on uncle whats-his-name”).

**Yeah.

This is about feelings. It’s not about facts or figures.
**

There’s also the point that families often have a way of arguing/fighting that an in-law will never properly understand. And they can often brush it off later with little fuss. I don’t get into arguments with my wife’s siblings - even though I want to at times - but let her deal with them. And she bites her tongue around my family too (which I’ll hear about later, of course). I can say things to my family that she couldn’t really get away with. I suggest you largely leave it to your sister and mother to talk with the BIL, while you focus on shielding your children from all the fuss until things settle.

Bonus quote: “If your brother-in-law borrows $100 a never speaks to you again, was it worth it?”

I got that one from Dave Ramsey.