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mrsdizzyd
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Slow down there! She has not been canonized. She is Servant of God Lucia Santos.
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Bluebright
Guest
Bullying? I’m sorry you are being bullied you should report that to your school or parish. That’s quite serious. Good luck in your vocation then, God bless. I simply meant you may be fighting against Carmelites when God is calling you to us, but I meant no harm by saying this. It is often the way in discernment but if you know your path already except my apologies I do struggle to express things sometimes.
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That is not an attitude required or espoused by the Church. Otherwise, there would be no Benedictines, no Franciscans, no Servites, no Passionists, and no Carmelites. But there are, because the Church recognizes that in the Catholic family there are different spiritualities and charisms. The Carmelites have a particular spirituality that is distinct from that of the others, and the Scapular represents that spirituality. The Brown Scapular is not primarily Marian. It is primarily Carmelite. Its Marian character comes from the Carmelite devotion to the Blessed Mother, specifically, under the title of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel.
And your use of the word “icon” specifically betrays a further lack of understanding of the Scapular. It’s not the icon that is significant. It is the brown cloth. A Brown Scapular does not need any icons, and in fact, it is preferred that the scapular be plain brown cloth with no embroidery at all.
The Carmelites are doing the right thing by educating the faithful in the proper use of the Carmelite scapular and its relationship to Carmelite spirituality. And one does not have to be “party” to the Carmelite family. As the Catechesis states, one needs only practice, however loosely, some part of Carmelite spirituality, which includes some practice of the Marian devotion, the Liturgy of the Hours, and mental prayer. Or, in other words, keep Carmelite spirituality in mind and not merely mindlessly wear the Scapular without considering its Carmelite roots.
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Anne3
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Sorry again. Lúcia is a Saint in my eyes. St Simon - why is he a saint if he never had a vision of Our Lady, never received a scapula from Her according to the Carmelite teachings?
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Anne3
Guest
Porthos11. Please be assured that I 100% respect all people that dedicate their lives to serving Our Lord and the Christian faith, I did not have that vocation. The Brown Scapula is absolutely attributed to the Carmelite Order shown special favour by Our Blessed Mother.
This is where we diverge in our opinions – If the Carmelite Order reject the St Simon vision and Brown Scapula story as legend and not fact, as stated by a Carmelite member in the video, then why are the Carmelite Nuns still exploiting this story, they produce and sell thousands of miniature Brown Scapulas depicting the St Simon vision. Why was I enrolled and given a miniature Brown Scapular at my First Holy Communion like thousands of other children. Why does every web page on this subject still refer to St Simon apparition in 1251? Why did Pope John Paul II not allow his Brown Scapula to be removed when he was shot in 1981?
The very basis of non vocation Catholics wearing the miniature Brown Scapular is false according to the Carmelite Community. However thank God we have a lifeline, we have faith. Lúcia Santos was pivotal to a miracle witnessed by 70k people, she had the apparition of Our Lady of Mount Carmel who gifted her the Brown Scapula. To quote Lúcia from an interview in 1949 with Carmelite Fr. Kilian Lynch “The scapular and the Rosary are inseparable. The scapular is a sign of consecration to Our Lady. Our Lady wants all to wear the scapular. The Holy Father has already told this to the whole world, saying that the scapular is a sign of consecration to the Immaculate Heart. Nobody can disagree now ”
I cannot add to or top that. God Bless you Lúcia, you are my Saint and no Carmelite Community member can taint your part in history or the Catholic faith. The Fatima 3rd secret has come to bear down on the Vatican as told, we have to rid our Church of the freemasons, Jesuits, communists, homosexuals and falsehoods, this will be my promise.
This is where we diverge in our opinions – If the Carmelite Order reject the St Simon vision and Brown Scapula story as legend and not fact, as stated by a Carmelite member in the video, then why are the Carmelite Nuns still exploiting this story, they produce and sell thousands of miniature Brown Scapulas depicting the St Simon vision. Why was I enrolled and given a miniature Brown Scapular at my First Holy Communion like thousands of other children. Why does every web page on this subject still refer to St Simon apparition in 1251? Why did Pope John Paul II not allow his Brown Scapula to be removed when he was shot in 1981?
The very basis of non vocation Catholics wearing the miniature Brown Scapular is false according to the Carmelite Community. However thank God we have a lifeline, we have faith. Lúcia Santos was pivotal to a miracle witnessed by 70k people, she had the apparition of Our Lady of Mount Carmel who gifted her the Brown Scapula. To quote Lúcia from an interview in 1949 with Carmelite Fr. Kilian Lynch “The scapular and the Rosary are inseparable. The scapular is a sign of consecration to Our Lady. Our Lady wants all to wear the scapular. The Holy Father has already told this to the whole world, saying that the scapular is a sign of consecration to the Immaculate Heart. Nobody can disagree now ”
I cannot add to or top that. God Bless you Lúcia, you are my Saint and no Carmelite Community member can taint your part in history or the Catholic faith. The Fatima 3rd secret has come to bear down on the Vatican as told, we have to rid our Church of the freemasons, Jesuits, communists, homosexuals and falsehoods, this will be my promise.
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giuseppe96
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Taking what you said, could one enrolled in the Brown Scapular incorporate other spiritualities into their faith (Dominican, Franciscan, Ignatian, etc.) alongside Carmelite spirituality?
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I don’t see why not. People wear the "Five-Fold Scapular’ which contains not only the Brown Scapular but the scapulars of Servites and a couple other orders, plus the Pope granted the Redemptorists the special faculty to promote the Five-fold Scapular, so you have a bunch of orders’ spiritualities involved there.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
Your postings in this thread are very presumptuous!
You are arguing down members of the Carmelite family who are trying to help you understand the scapular. You are declaring your own saints. You are continuing to misrepresent the present Carmelite view of St. Simon.
Clearly, you have decided what you want to do. Neither the church nor the Carmelites are going to stop you from using your sacramentals as you see fit.
You are arguing down members of the Carmelite family who are trying to help you understand the scapular. You are declaring your own saints. You are continuing to misrepresent the present Carmelite view of St. Simon.
Clearly, you have decided what you want to do. Neither the church nor the Carmelites are going to stop you from using your sacramentals as you see fit.
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MikeInVA
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Absolutely! I stopped wearing my brown scapular when I received my Dominican scapular, but that doesn’t mean I stopped my devotion to our Blessed Mother. Remember, it isn’t the cloth that makes the scapular, it’s your faith.
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Gertabelle
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angel12
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The basis of “non-vocation” (I guess you mean laypersons?) Catholics wearing the scapular is devotion to Our Lady. And the Carmelite Orders have NEVER declared devotion to Our Lady to be false. That is completely false.
No one has tried to. Also not true.
Rid the Church of Jesuits? You do realize our Holy Father is a Jesuit?
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giuseppe96
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Yeah, the Jesuits themselves aren’t the problem. It’s the Freemasons, modernists, and socialists that have infiltrated the order.
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Diaconia
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All scapulars are an indication of the wearer’s association with the religious order or confraternity associated with the scapular.
The promise associated with St. Simon Stock is not what the Carmelite scapular is about. It is about living a way of Carmel in the individual’s life.
Of course there are people who only wear it because of St. Simon’s Promise, but that misses the forest for the trees. But that’s not what a scapular is about generally, and it’s not what the Brown Scapular is about specifically. If you are attracted to the charism of Carmel, then feel free to become a member of their Order in this way. Pope St. John Paul II did just that, and was a third order Carmelite.
That’s why they stopped auto-enrolling First Communicants, if children aren’t interested in Carmelite spirituality they shouldn’t be forced to wear the scapular. Someone might be interested in a different Third Order, who may have their own version of a scapular, or have an Oblate program, for example.
Many years ago a woman showed me her scapular, which had the hair from a nun on the back, instead of the brown felt. I’ve never seen one since, but have heard stories about the nuns making them. The hair was a little bit more abrasive, and throughout the day reminded the wearer with this small act of penance. Wish I could locate one now.
May the Doctor of the Church, Therese of Lisieux, our beloved Little Flower intercede for all Carmelites,
Deacon Christopher
The promise associated with St. Simon Stock is not what the Carmelite scapular is about. It is about living a way of Carmel in the individual’s life.
Of course there are people who only wear it because of St. Simon’s Promise, but that misses the forest for the trees. But that’s not what a scapular is about generally, and it’s not what the Brown Scapular is about specifically. If you are attracted to the charism of Carmel, then feel free to become a member of their Order in this way. Pope St. John Paul II did just that, and was a third order Carmelite.
That’s why they stopped auto-enrolling First Communicants, if children aren’t interested in Carmelite spirituality they shouldn’t be forced to wear the scapular. Someone might be interested in a different Third Order, who may have their own version of a scapular, or have an Oblate program, for example.
Many years ago a woman showed me her scapular, which had the hair from a nun on the back, instead of the brown felt. I’ve never seen one since, but have heard stories about the nuns making them. The hair was a little bit more abrasive, and throughout the day reminded the wearer with this small act of penance. Wish I could locate one now.
May the Doctor of the Church, Therese of Lisieux, our beloved Little Flower intercede for all Carmelites,
Deacon Christopher
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Dorothy
Guest
I hope that the Prior Provincials of both branches of the Carmelite Order will instruct the nuns and others who make Brown Scapulars to not put anything on them at all, except for a small embroidered cross (if they want to put something on it.)
Obviously this information has not trickled down sufficiently! And you are being unnecessarily anxious about it.
Peace in Carmel!
Obviously this information has not trickled down sufficiently! And you are being unnecessarily anxious about it.
Peace in Carmel!
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Anne3
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Porthos11. I have stated several times that the Carmelite Order own the brown scapular, my original post states that Lúcia Santos was my inspiration with a message from Our Lady for us all to wear said scapula. Simon Stock apparition is untrue according to Carmalite Community so that can no longer be an inspiration. Please stop trying to divide the Catholic faith, we are one faith and all equal in God’s eyes.
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Anne3
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At last we agree on something. I am informing the Catholic faithful on social media about Simon Stock now sited as legend only.
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giuseppe96
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Uh, what does this have to do with the Jesuits being ‘evil’?
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mrsdizzyd
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What in tarnation?! Jesuits are evil? Freemasons are brainwashing us all? The world is flat? Oh dear. SMHYeah, I don’t know where you’re drawing this from.
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