Brown Scapular concerns

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Caitlin

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I have been thinking about trying the brown scapular devotion. But there are some things about it that make me nervous. I have heard that you have to stay in a state of grace in order to wear it. But human beings mess up everyday. Myself included. And even the most serious christians mess up. Nobody can honestly say they never do. I have also heard that you must remain chaste in order to wear it. I want marriage and children someday. How can someone remain chaste and still have a family of their own? Anyone who does wear it. Please help me to understand. Because I know I am wrong somewhere in my thinking about this.
 
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Caitlin said:
I have also heard that you must remain chaste in order to wear it. I want marriage and children someday. How can someone remain chaste and still have a family of their own?
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If I’m not mistaken we are all called to be chaste both married and unmarried. Is it possible you are mixing up chastity and celibacy?
 
wkj_123 said:
If I’m not mistaken we are all called to be chaste both married and unmarried. Is it possible you are mixing up chastity and celibacy?
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Could you explain the difference between the words please?
 
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Being chaste is ordaining one’s sexual activity according to one’s state in life. So, for someone who is single, being chaste means being abstinent, but for someone who is married, being chaste includes sexual intercourse with one’s spouse, provided it is within the moral framework defined by the Church.
 
Everyone should strive to remain in a state of grace whether they participate in the brown scapular devotion or not, but you’re absolutely right - we can’t be flawlessly perfect for the rest of our lives. The scapular does not require this, either, but is meant as encouragement and a reminder.
 
You can be married and wear the scapular. By being chaste while you are married, it means you promise to uphold your wedding vows and not cheat on your spouse and use contraceptives. So you can still make babies with your spouse while wearing the brown scapular.
 
Caitlin said:
I have also heard that you must remain chaste in order to wear it. I want marriage and children someday. How can someone remain chaste and still have a family of their own?
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Married people are called to chastity.

Chastity for an unmarried person is different than chastity for a married person. For the unmarried it means remaining contenant.

There are people who do not commit mortal sins, in fact that is the goal that was set for us by Christ. When we sin, repent, and work harder to resist, each time we will grow in strength.

When you sin, repent. Confess. And if you wish to have devotion to the Scapular, keep repenting and resisting sin!
 
Being chaste does not mean not having sexual relations with your spouse. The word for that is being “continent”. People constantly mix up the two (or don’t know the second word). And celibacy is the state of not being married; some are called to a vow of celibacy; some (like diocesan priests) are called to a promise of celibacy. and the rest who are not married get to live it. In either event, they are all called to be continent.

As to your nervousness: first, I commend you for your desire to engage in this devotion.

Second, it, like the rosary, and novenas are all private devotions; as such there is little the Church does to structure them;or rules about them. One is free to choose to engage in approved devotions, or not engage, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with how “good” or how “faithful” they are as a Catholic.

If the devotion causes you nervousness, I hope that you can find the answers you need to resolve that. If it continues, then you might want to find something else in the vast panoply of devotions that fits better.
 
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Caitlin said:
I have been thinking about trying the brown scapular devotion.
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What is the brown scapular devotion? As on OCDS lay Carmelite, we are required to enroll in the brown scapular and wear it (the enrollment words are in any priest’s book). We can also wear a Carmelite medal in lieu of the cloth one – which I switched to when I inherited my mother-in-law’s medal, since when I go to India I tend to sweat a lot.

They used to say that if a person dies wearing the scapular they will not go to Hell, but have since retracted that.

There is nothing as far as I know about how one must remain in a state of grace in order to wear it. Rather, I’m thinking that wearing it would remind one to be good and confess if one does wrong.

Also, as a Carmelite we are expected to practice chastity according to our state – celibacy if unmarried, faithfulness to the spouse if married (no extramarital affairs).

If you have a link to the “brown scapular devotion” to which you are referring could you share it here?
 
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Caitlin said:
I have been thinking about trying the brown scapular devotion. But there are some things about it that make me nervous. I have heard that you have to stay in a state of grace in orderto wear it.
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Where are you getting this from?
I want marriage and children someday. How can someone remain chaste and still have a family of their own? Anyone who does wear it. Please help me to understand. Because I know I am wrong somewhere in my thinking about this.
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Why would you think marriage and chastity are somewhat incompatible? We are all called to be chaste in our state in life, scapular or no. For married people, chastity includes proper use of the sexual faculty within the bounds of marriage.

Rather than believe things “you’ve heard”, take your guidance from the official Carmelite catechesis on the Brown Scapular.

http://meditationsfromcarmel.com/content/scapular-catechesis
 
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I’ve been wearing the Brown Scapular for several years and I am not sure if I stayed in a state of grace that whole time. The Scapular devotion to Mary, as discussed in the official link someone just posted, does help inspire me to avoid sin and, when I think I’ve messed up, to confess promptly. That’s what it’s supposed to do. Sacramentals and devotions aren’t for perfect sinless people. They’re to help sinners, and we’re all sinners.
 
lynnvinc said:
They used to say that if a person dies wearing the scapular they will not go to Hell, but have since retracted that.
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When did they retract this!? That’s a prime reason to wear it. It’s a promise from Our Lady herself, and it’s written on the Scapular.
 
ThomasMT said:
That’s a prime reason to wear it
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No it’s not. If it were just about having some piece of cloth on when one died, we could just drape them on atheists in their dying moments, and the unlucky faithful person who happened to have some illness or accident that caused the Scapular to be removed before death might go to hell. We don’t treat Scapulars like magic charms.

However, if we wear the Scapular and practice Carmelite devotion as it requires (we don’t just put it on and not do anything else) and try to live according to God’s commandments, we can be assured that the devotion will help us grow close to God, thus reducing our risk of Hell, and also that Mary will help us at the hour of our death.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
No it’s not. If it were just about having some piece of cloth on when one died, we could just drape them on atheists in their dying moments, and the unlucky faithful person who happened to have some illness or accident that caused the Scapular to be removed before death might go to hell. We don’t treat Scapulars like magic charms.
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It was a prime reason for me, anyway. And I simply reasoned that the unrepentant person would be the one to somehow have it removed, while a faithful person would somehow be compelled to put it on, before death. I’ll just stick to the Rosary, though.
I do find it troubling however, how the certainty of these devotional “promises” seems to shift. The St. Bridget devotion is another one that I recently had been learning about.
 
You have to look more deeply at these devotions to see what they truly are.
The Brown Scapular is a way for a lay person to practice Carmelite spirituality. It was unfortunately not always well explained to people in the past. If someone isn’t oriented towards Carmelite spirituality, then they probably shouldn’t wear that scapular. There are several other scapulars of other orders or for other devotions one could wear instead.

The St Bridget 12-year prayers are basically a meditation on the wounds of Christ as described in Scripture, with specific things we pray for on each one (like one of the prayers is for world peace, world leaders etc). The 1-year prayers are a meditation on the 7 last words of Christ from Scripture, and are similar to the Stations of the Cross. If one uses these prayers in the intended manner to meditate on Christ, they’re really powerful prayers. The unapproved promises take the focus off Christ imho.
 
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ThomasMT said:
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lynnvinc:
They used to say that if a person dies wearing the scapular they will not go to Hell, but have since retracted that.
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When did they retract this!? That’s a prime reason to wear it. It’s a promise from Our Lady herself, and it’s written on the Scapular.
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Well, first, it’s private revelation. But even beyond that, it’s incredibly dubious private revelation. This alleged promise is first recorded almost 150 years after it supposedly happened, and goes unmentioned in documents in the intervening time period that should have logically mentioned it if it were known. This goes into some detail:
https://traditionalcarmelite.com/live/brown-scapular-of-our-lady-of-mount-carmel/

(the relevant portion starts at the heading of “Did our Blessed Lady appear to Saint Simon Stock and give him the Brown Scapular?”, particularly the paragraph beginning with “This bring us to the second problem, and that problem is the account of the vision.”)
 
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Caitlin said:
. I have heard that you have to stay in a state of grace in order to wear it. But human beings mess up everyday. Myself included. And even the most serious christians mess up. Nobody can honestly say they never do.
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It’s one thing to be falling into venial sin regularly; it’s quite another thing to be falling into mortal sin regularly, either one is not committed to avoiding the near occasion of sin, or they are not serious about a conversion of heart.

sit back and listen to this 20 minute audio and it will get to the core to help you and set you in the right path:
AUDIO link
 
Gab123 said:
It’s one thing to be falling into venial sin regularly; it’s quite another thing to be falling into mortal sin regularly, either one is not committed to avoiding the near occasion of sin, or they are not serious about a conversion of heart.
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While on the one hand I would very much agree with this statement, there’s an unfortunate (?) other side of the coin: human nature tends to be habitual. There certainly are possibilities for many (if not most) people to find themselves “falling into mortal sin” on a recurring basis, likely with some pattern of occurrence, and it simply be because they are inching closer to breaking a habit or the resolution to their circumstances isn’t so black and white. In those cases, I think it entirely off the mark to label these as “not committed” or “not serious”. No, indeed, this is where the phrase “the struggle is real” comes in. Hopefully, these folks avail themselves of the sacraments (Confession and the Eucharist) frequently to strengthen themselves for this spiritual battle, and we should join in praying with/for them as well (because a good look in the mirror may reveal that they are us).
 
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