Brown scapular - valid?

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When I was a child, we were not allowed to go swimming without the medal.
 
thomas_jd said:
While the scapular medal, on the one side the image of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and on the other,the image of Mary, enjoys all of the privileges granted to those wearing the cloth Scapular ( except for the partial indulgence for kissing the scapular granted by Pope Benedict XV), the substitution of the medal for the cloth should only be made for a good and serious reason. Saint Pius X insisted that he (…did not intend that the Scapular Medal
should supplant the Brown Scapular in “Europe and America.” He said, " I wear the cloth; let us never take it off."
The medal was approved for the tropic areas.
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I’m not encouraging the abandonment of the Cloth Scapular, however Pope Pius XII extended the use of the medal, after enrollment with the cloth medal universally.
 
giuseppeTO said:
I guess you’ll have to take it up with Our Lady since she made the Sabbatine promise. Do you suggest she made a promise she cannot keep? Of course, one cannot use the scapular as an amulet and perhaps the mother was oversimplifying the obligations for the benefit of a young child. But if you read the Rituale which forms the basis of Catholic worship along with the Missale and the Breviary, you will note the rubrics of the enrollment ceremony requires the priest to…
"…admonish the newly enrolled member that he order his life piously and fulfill all the obligations, both for tertiaries and the special ones for members who desire to enjoy the Sabbatine privilege. "

If Our Lady made the promise, I would imagine she got permission first. Your protestant-like disgust for sacramentals is pretty obvious but if you (and martin Luther) would take a second to consider that no sacramentals guarantee salvation, you might understand their grace-giving nature, as authenticated by the Church. If one follows the rule and obligations to pray the rosary and maintain in a state of grace, our Lady makes one’s spiritual destiny clear.
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The Carmelites recently published a small catechism on the Brown Scapular and the Sabbatine privilege is mentioned. It says that there is no historical evidence that such a message was ever given and that Rome actually asked the Carmelites to cease preaching about it. It says that we can believe that our Lady will assist those who have been devoted to her, even after their death, but that the Sabbatine privilege can not be considered worthy of belief.
 
Filioque said:
I’m not encouraging the abandonment of the Cloth Scapular, however Pope Pius XII extended the use of the medal, after enrollment with the cloth medal universally.
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My understanding is the cloth scapular is correct for America and Europe. The medal is used in the tropics because cloth doesn’t last very long under the humidity. I view the medal as a dispensation. I would never tell someone not to wear a medal, but I think the cloth scapular is the correct one to wear.
 
OK, so everyone who questions a “Catholic” thing like scapulars is lutheran (small L). Indeed, you may have unwittingly paid me a compliment. Four centuries of thinking have shown Luther to have been spot-on in some of his criticisms.

In my region (Niagara, Canada) there used to be a large Carmelite seminary, once packed with scores of students. They’re all gone now, and what few friars man the place have long since stopped wearing the habit. As for scapulars, they still sell them in the religious articles store on site, but it’s been decades since the Order has mentioned them or their supposed properties. Even the Carmelites acknowledge their Order was silent on the topic of promises for the first century after they were supposed to have been made to Simon Stock. What does that tell you?

Bottom line: anyone who does what the Church requires of scapular-wearers is sure of salvation, whether they subscribe to the scapular or not. The scapular is just a reminder of how to prepare for death. Mary certainly doesn’t provide special travel insurance to some good people but not for others. Not the Mary I know, anyway.

Now I’m calvinist, I suppose.
 
  1. I’ve been away from the forum for awhile - but reading this topic tonight was disheartening. I was never taught about many of the requirements regarding the Brown Scapular until many years AFTER receiving my first one - at First Holy Communion. String was white - not brown. So, there must be many acceptable types of Scapulars. I do not know if it was simply included in the Communicant’s religious items package or if we were instituted into the Brown Scapular at that time. However, it was my belief that you had to wear it. I wasn’t aware until MANYyears later about being instituted into it. I’ve seen the ceremony but know that people are not always able to follow the requirements afterwards. I know that priests do that but in pamphlets with Our Lady’s promises, I never read about having to be instituted, etc. I’m not arguing the point - just questioning it.
  2. As for Our Lady releasing souls from Purgatory, I can’t speak for God’s ways. Only that perhaps a soul who has been faithful to the Scapular might get relief sooner - by reason of Our Lady’s intercession - and, especially on July 15th (16th?) - be released / escorted by Our Lady to Heaven. What a treasured thought !
  3. I’ve worn woolen ones, cotton - and wonder myself if I’m supposed to have a particular color, fabric - or lifestyle. (The length of the string never occurred to me.) I know I haven’t lived up to the requirements but thought that wearing it was a sure help towards Salvation - We are told that wearing it does NOT remove the necessity for Confession & Communion. It’s not a substitute. BUT I do recall the string on one of mine once showing and hearing an observer comment: “I haven’t seen one of those in years!” Maybe, we should all take a lesson from that and give example to a world gone deaf, dumb and blind to religion.
 
Indulgentiarum Doctrina, 1967, completely revised Indulgences. Enchiridion Indulgentiarum: Normae eet Concessiones (Manual of Indulgences - Norms and Grants) was issued with revisions in 1967, 1968, 1986, and 1999, and that includes the scapulars. All the pre 1967 information is out of date and has been aborogated. Each confraternity or Order had to renew those indulgences after 1967. Basically the Church reduced the number of plenary indulgences and added many new norms. The revised brown scapular investment is here:

ocarm.org/pls/ocarm/consultazione.mostra_pagina?rifi=guest&rifp=guest&id_pagina=521

Here are some notes I collected:
  1. Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel
    Scapular Confraternity (from 1996 Rite of Blessing of and Enrollment in the Scapular of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel)
  1. The members of the confraternity must at all times devoutly wear the scapular or the medal as a visible sign of their belonging to Mary in the brotherhood of Carmel.
  2. Members are bound to set aside regularly time to be with God in prayer, frequent participation in the Eucharist, daily recitation of one of the hours of the liturgy or of some psalms or the rosary or other equivalent prayers.
  3. If possible, they will meet periodically to build up the sense of fraternity, to study the spirit of Carmel, to care for brothers and sisters in need, all in union with Mary.
  4. They may gain plenary indulgences, provided they fulfill the usual conditions *, on the day they join the confraternity and on the following feasts:
    the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel (July 16),
    St Elijah, prophet (July 20),
    St Simon Stock (May 16),
    St Therese of the Child Jesus (October 1),
    St Teresa of Jesus (October 15),
    All Carmelite Saints (November 14), and St John of the Cross (December 14).
*Confession, communion, prayers according to the intentions of the Pope, and a renewal of the promise to keep the pledges of the Confraternity.
Decrees of the Sacred Apostolic Penitentiary 144/68/R of June 25, 1968, and 11533/68/R of Sept. 17, 1968.
 
I understand that members of the Blue Army (Worldwide Apostolate of Fatima) are granted the privilege of saying the rosary instead of the Little Office. At least that’s how it was explained to me when I joined back in the 1970’s.
 
gkirk said:
OK, so everyone who questions a “Catholic” thing like scapulars is lutheran (small L). Indeed, you may have unwittingly paid me a compliment. Four centuries of thinking have shown Luther to have been spot-on in some of his criticisms.

In my region (Niagara, Canada) there used to be a large Carmelite seminary, once packed with scores of students. They’re all gone now, and what few friars man the place have long since stopped wearing the habit. As for scapulars, they still sell them in the religious articles store on site, but it’s been decades since the Order has mentioned them or their supposed properties. Even the Carmelites acknowledge their Order was silent on the topic of promises for the first century after they were supposed to have been made to Simon Stock. What does that tell you?

Bottom line: anyone who does what the Church requires of scapular-wearers is sure of salvation, whether they subscribe to the scapular or not. The scapular is just a reminder of how to prepare for death. Mary certainly doesn’t provide special travel insurance to some good people but not for others. Not the Mary I know, anyway.

Now I’m calvinist, I suppose.
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You seem awfully hostile on this issue.

The scapular is a sign, it’s a sacramental. It’s a sign or sacramental like many others such as holy water, incense, candles, sign of the cross, medals, rosaries and so on. I trust you make the sign of the cross? Use holy water? Well, the scapular is similar. We Catholics have used signs since time began and the scapular is just another sign. If used properly and with the mind of the Church, one can recieve graces to do good and avoid evil. It can give protection to the soul and body and forgive venial sins. What makes them special is the blessing of the priest who can consecrate bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.

Scapulars have also been the sign of confraternity members for centuries, to bring them closer to, and share in the charism of, the order that they are a part of. I have been wearing my Black Scapular of the Passion for years now and have had indulgences granted by the wearing of this scapular in good faith to me on many occasions. I also share in the works and prayers of the Passionists. 🙂
 
Sorry for sounding ignorant, but what do you mean by enrollment?
 
ConservativeOne said:
… I was never taught about many of the requirements regarding the Brown Scapular until many years AFTER receiving my first one - at First Holy Communion … I wasn’t aware until MANYyears later about being instituted into it…
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The Carmelites say you do not have to be instituted.

carmelitanacollection.com/catechesis.php

"Six practical ways of affiliation are recognized by the Carmelite Order:

  1. *]the religious men and women of the Order and aggregated institutes
    *]the Secular/Lay Order (Third Order)
    *]members of public associations and confraternities of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, such as active communities of the Scapular Confraternity.
    *]Those who have been invested in the scapular, practice the Order’s spirituality, and have been granted some association with the Order.
    *]Those who wear the scapular out of devotion, practice the Order’s spirituality, but who have no formal association to the Order.
    *]Those who are committed to practice the Marian characteristics of Carmelite Spirituality but use outward forms other than the Brown Scapular to express this devotion.

    **If a person wears the scapular, but has no formal association to the Order, does that person still gain the benefits associated with the scapular?
    **
    A person who wears the scapular and practices the spirituality of the Carmelite Order has an affiliation, loose as it may be, to the Carmelite family and so shares in the graces traditionally associated with the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel. However, simply to wear the scapular without accepting the responsibilities attached to it would be to reduce this precious sacramental to the status of a charm or good-luck piece."
 
Just my:twocents: I was enrolled with my First Communion class in 1960 but set the scapular aside not long after. Still have my original! Began feeling a strong pull to express my devotion to Our Lord thru his Dear Mother before our last presidential election. All that talk about electing a messiah got to me, I guess! Anyay, I bought a new small brown wool scapular and have worn it since the feast of Christ the King- Nov of 2008 (also the anniversary of my First Communion). Since I have been a Benedictine Oblate for 20 years I was pleased to find one that also has a small medal of St. B. and a Crucifix attached to the strings. I just made the 4th of the 5 First Saturdays Our Lady requested and whether this is ‘valid’ or not it has all served to deepen my commitment to my faith. I live in an area that isn’t exactly over-run with Catholics so I gives me comfort. They are my spiritual dog-tags in the army of King Jesus, you could say. May more people take up the practice and be blessed as I have been.
 
gkirk said:
OK, so everyone who questions a “Catholic” thing like scapulars is lutheran (small L). Indeed, you may have unwittingly paid me a compliment. Four centuries of thinking have shown Luther to have been spot-on in some of his criticisms.

In my region (Niagara, Canada) there used to be a large Carmelite seminary, once packed with scores of students. They’re all gone now, and what few friars man the place have long since stopped wearing the habit. As for scapulars, they still sell them in the religious articles store on site, but it’s been decades since the Order has mentioned them or their supposed properties. Even the Carmelites acknowledge their Order was silent on the topic of promises for the first century after they were supposed to have been made to Simon Stock. What does that tell you?

Bottom line: anyone who does what the Church requires of scapular-wearers is sure of salvation, whether they subscribe to the scapular or not. The scapular is just a reminder of how to prepare for death. Mary certainly doesn’t provide special travel insurance to some good people but not for others. Not the Mary I know, anyway.

Now I’m calvinist, I suppose.
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So am I correct in assuming you are saying that the Blessed Virgin did not do as the tradition says she did is that about right? And if so, please tell us how you know this to be a fact.
 
Just to clarify something…

it IS a teaching of the Church that those who die wearing the scapular will go to Heaven. But that’s not because the scapular is what saves you. If you wear the scapular but then die in mortal sin without repentance, you’ll somehow lose the scapular before you die… there have even been cases of people throwing off the scapular cause it burned them etc.
 
I’m depressed to hear that indulgences were revised in 1967 and all the old ones, that were not included in the new Handbook, revoked. If true, that sounds like a very stupid, bureaucratic and fiendish thing to do.

Can anyone verify this?
 
Layman said:
I’m depressed to hear that indulgences were revised in 1967 and all the old ones, that were not included in the new Handbook, revoked. If true, that sounds like a very stupid, bureaucratic and fiendish thing to do.

Can anyone verify this?
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It is certainly true. I have a copy of Manual of Indulgences, Norms And Grants, (translated from Enchiridion Indulgentiarium: Normae et Concessiones, fourth edition 1999) USCCB, Washington D.C., 2006. In that book is also contained the text of Indulgentiarum doctrina of H. H. Pope Paul VI, 1967.

Norm 13 of that states that the Enchiridion Indulgentiarium is to be revised such that indulgences are only on the most important prayers and works of piety, charity, and penance.

That was done, in Jun 29, 1968 1st, Oct 1,1968 2nd, May 18, 1986 3rd, and Jul 16, 1999 4th.

“… the abolishment of the former determination of days and years…”

“It has also been considered fitting to reduce appropriately the number of plenary indulgences in order that the faithful may hold them in greater esteem and may in fact acquire them with the proper dispositions. For indeed the greater the proliferation (of indulgences) the less is the attention given them; what is offered in abundance is not greatly appreciated. Besides, many of the faithful need considerable time to prepare themselves properly for acquisition of a plenary indulgence.”

“As regards the “real” and “local” indulgences, not only has their number been reduced considerably, but the designations themselves have been abolished to make it clearer that indulgences are attached to the actions performed by the faithful and not to objects or places which are but the occasion for the acquisition of the indulgences. In fact, members of pious associations can acquire the indulgences proper to their associations without the requirement of the use of distinctive objects.”

Norm 14 states that the indulgences for religious orders, congregations, societies without vows, secular institutes, and pious associations, had to be revised.

Norm 15 regards a plenary indulgence applicable only to the dead which can be acquired in all churches and public oratories.

Norm 17 states that "The faithful that use with devotion an object of piety (crucifix, cross, rosary, scapular or medal) properly blessed by any priest, can acquire a partial indulgence. But if the object of piety is blessed by the Supreme Pontiff or any bishop, the faithful who use it devoutly can also acquire a plenary indulgence on the feast of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, provided thay also make a profession of faith using any legitimate formula."

"Indulgences attached to the use of religious objects which are not mentioned above cease three months after the date of publication of this constitution in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis."

"The revisions mentioned in n. 14 and n. 15 must be submitted to the Sacred Apostolic Penitentiary within a year. Two years after the date of this constitution, indulgences which have not been confirmed will become null and void."

Vatican: Indulgentiarum doctrina of H. H. Pope Paul VI, 1967
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19670101_indulgentiarum-doctrina_en.html
 
Cripes. What a pity. Indulgences are a great way to encourage piety; they give a sense of having earned something wonderful and also, practical. I’ll bet some lovely old devotions got the boot.

What is this mania for revision, that seems to have started in the 1940’s? No wonder people fled to the SSPX; if the Mass get’s hugely re-organised and this sort of thing happens and you were raised on Pre-Vat II Catholicism, you’d be scandalised.

Had to ask around a bit in London to find a priest to enrol me in the Brown Scapular; eventually went to the source; the Carmelites.

Time to put Vat. II in a box marked “Experiment - Failed” and file it away somewhere excitable young Catholic academics can’t get at it.
 
Layman said:
Cripes. What a pity. Indulgences are a great way to encourage piety; they give a sense of having earned something wonderful and also, practical. I’ll bet some lovely old devotions got the boot.

What is this mania for revision, that seems to have started in the 1940’s? No wonder people fled to the SSPX; if the Mass get’s hugely re-organised and this sort of thing happens and you were raised on Pre-Vat II Catholicism, you’d be scandalised.

Had to ask around a bit in London to find a priest to enrol me in the Brown Scapular; eventually went to the source; the Carmelites.

Time to put Vat. II in a box marked “Experiment - Failed” and file it away somewhere excitable young Catholic academics can’t get at it.
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This is one of the reasons for revision, but read the Indulgentiarum doctrina at the link in the previous post for all the reasons:

“It has also been considered fitting to reduce appropriately the number of plenary indulgences in order that the faithful may hold them in greater esteem and may in fact acquire them with the proper dispositions. For indeed the greater the proliferation (of indulgences) the less is the attention given them; what is offered in abundance is not greatly appreciated. Besides, many of the faithful need considerable time to prepare themselves properly for acquisition of a plenary indulgence.”
 
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