Bucking a trend, these churches figured out how to bring millennials back to worship

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whyeyeman said:
Young Catholics tend to fall into two groups - those who hold all church teaching to be true and want s return to tradition, and those who want the church to change its major teachings and who go to ordinary form masses.
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Of course, as you noted, this is a tendency - it isn’t universally true. However, I am in agreement. I have never met a Catholic (of any age) who prefers the Traditional Latin Mass to the Novus Ordo who wants to see the Church’s teachings and disciplines altered (unless such alterations are a return to authentically traditional practices). On the other hand, I know many Catholics who prefer the Novus Ordo who do wish to see teachings and disciplines changed or abolished entirely. This by no means is to say that all Catholics who prefer the Novus Ordo are like this.
whyeyeman said:
The latter group is unlikely to persist in the church for many more generations.
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This is an important observation. As each generation receives poorer catechesis than the previous, fewer parents are even bothering to have their babies (if they even have children) baptized (and many that are baptized receive the sacrament because of its cultural importance, and not because of its supernatural consequences). It can’t last. Already it is the case that the Church is divided by those who practice their faith and those who don’t. Through how many generations will cultural norms drive parents to baptize their children into the faith without any intention of their children ever really practicing it?
 
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whyeyeman said:
Young Catholics tend to fall into two groups - those who hold all church teaching to be true and want s return to tradition, and those who want the church to change its major teachings and who go to ordinary form masses. The latter group is unlikely to persist in the church for many more generations. Also note that those most zealous for the traditional Latin mass also tend to be converts.
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You do realize that the vast majority of faithful Catholics. young or otherwise, attend the ordinary form Mass? While it is impressive and heartening to see so many vibrant young Catholics embrace their faith and the traditional Mass, there are many, many more faithful and vibrant young Catholics who embrace and love the same Mass that they have known all their lives, the Mass attended by greater than 99% of Latin-Rite Catholics worldwide. And, of course, don’t forget the 1.5% of Catholics who are members of various Eastern Churches.
 
babochka said:
there are many, many more faithful and vibrant young Catholics who embrace and love the same Mass that they have known all their lives
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Indeed there are. Yet, as I often ask, do these young Catholics embrace the Novus Ordo Mass in and of itself, or do they embrace it because it is all that they know? What if another option was given them? Many argue that such an option is already there and that since it is not well attended, clearly young people don’t want it. Maybe there is some truth to that. I argue, though, that if the bishops wouldn’t relegate the Traditional Latin Mass to the margins, and would invest even the slightest effort in promoting it, its popularity would skyrocket. “Marketing” is important. People won’t take advantage of what they don’t know exists. And if they do know it exists, they are wary of it because it has been so maligned and associated with “schism” and “disobedience”. If the bishops made a sincere effort to clear away the uneasiness and uncertainty that hovers around the Traditional Mass and made a real attempt to bring it out of the “fringe”, people would listen. They would come.
 
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exnihilo said:
But Protestant churches don’t provide things that Catholic Church does. For instance they are missing most sacraments. As a result they focus on these things you like. There is nothing wrong with those things, but there is no reason those couldn’t be organized by laypeople in a parish.
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Of course not. They don’t have all 7 valid sacraments, most notably the Eucharist. I never suggested otherwise. I would never stop attending the Mass/Divine Liturgy for a Protestant prayer service.
exnihilo said:
but there is no reason those couldn’t be organized by laypeople in a parish.
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It would seem so, but that’s not really the case – at least around here. I have seen a great deal of reticence to such efforts. Meeting notices are intentionally left out of bulletins, meeting rooms are “overbooked” (even though they are all empty on Sundays), people fail to show up after having committed to do so, etc.

The effort to deal with such crummy parish politics becomes more effort than the Bible study, prayer group, etc. itself and they die. I have witnessed this more than once.
 
The EF Mass is no panacea that will attract new souls to the Church while helping to retain existing ones.
 
Nothing more than my own experiences of people, myself included, who have discovered the Traditional Latin Mass.
 
Duesenberg said:
One of the biggest problems in the Church is exemplified by the reactionary retorts of so many to the article. They couldn’t see past the surface to find the gold.

The response to “dig in and denigrate” is just so terribly ingrained. Perhaps that’s to be expected after being treated as they have for so long within the Church.

Nice to see at least a few “got” this article…
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It is a little ironic that earlier in this thread you were trumpeting the need for the church to listen to people with respect to what they wanted/needed, but when people tell you what they want/need - which is occasionally not the type of church this article envisions - and it happens to oppose your own beliefs, you shut them down.

Listening to people means you have to listen to those who disagree with you. It also means accepting that reasonable people can look at the same situation, form different opinions, and draw different conclusions, and yours isn’t right just because it’s yours.
 
R_H_Benson said:
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babochka:
there are many, many more faithful and vibrant young Catholics who embrace and love the same Mass that they have known all their lives
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Indeed there are. Yet, as I often ask, do these young Catholics embrace the Novus Ordo Mass in and of itself, or do they embrace it because it is all that they know? What if another option was given them? Many argue that such an option is already there and that since it is not well attended, clearly young people don’t want it. Maybe there is some truth to that. I argue, though, that if the bishops wouldn’t relegate the Traditional Latin Mass to the margins, and would invest even the slightest effort in promoting it, its popularity would skyrocket. “Marketing” is important. People won’t take advantage of what they don’t know exists. And if they do know it exists, they are wary of it because it has been so maligned and associated with “schism” and “disobedience”. If the bishops made a sincere effort to clear away the uneasiness and uncertainty that hovers around the Traditional Mass and made a real attempt to bring it out of the “fringe”, people would listen. They would come.
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I’m not young, but I’m not old enough to remember a time before Vatican II. I grew up in the Byzantine Rite and attended a Latin Rite Catholic school, so I saw my fair share of 1970s Novus Ordo Masses. I attended my first Latin Mass, an indult Mass, in the mid-90s. Since that time, I’ve attended and somewhere between 30 and 40 Latin Masses at a vibrant FSSP parish, full of good Catholics, both young and old. I’ve also attended Chaldean, Maronite, Melkite, and Syro-Malabar liturgies, in addition to my own Ruthenian Divine Liturgy. I embrace the teachings of the Church. I love the Church. I do not particularly care for the Latin Mass. Of the Catholic and Orthodox Eucharistic Liturgies that I have attended, it is at the bottom of the list. It isn’t the language. I’ve attended liturgies in Arabic, Assyrian, Greek and Slavonic. It just isn’t my favorite. One of my kids prefers the Latin Mass because they don’t use much incense and it is quiet (she’s hyper-sensitive to sound and the constant chanting in the Byzantine Rite bothers her.) I just don’t thinkone can generalize.
 
Nope. For a very long time some pushed the belief that if only the EF Mass was allowed, that it would skyrocket in popularity. I actually believed that. I did not agree with my bishop at the time who did not allow the EF Mass because he felt doing so would foster division.

Then Summorum Pontificum was promulgated. The same people were absolutely sure the EF Mass would rival the Ancient Vernacular Mass (AVM/OF Mass) in popularity and soon pass it.

That has not happened, not even close – despite a great deal of material support from the bishops for the EF Mass. The AVM is here to stay, at least for now. Oh, and the division my former bishop worries about has indeed reared its ugly face.

Unless the people who give the EF Mass a face, change a great deal, it will become even rarer in years to come.
 
Duesenberg said:
Understanding what they are seeking and then doing everything possible to give people what they need with respect to worshiping God.
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Here’s the thing, though: “what people are seeking” isn’t always equivalent to “what people need”. 😉
 
casslean said:
Listening to people means you have to listen to those who disagree with you. It also means accepting that reasonable people can look at the same situation, form different opinions, and draw different conclusions, and yours isn’t right just because it’s yours.
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True. But, the job of the priest/minister and pastoral team is to discern what the spiritual needs of their congregation is. Part of that discernment – although not all of it – is hearing what the congregation is requesting. (And, of course, discernment is not merely a “rubber stamp” of their requests…)
 
Gorgias said:
True. But, the job of the priest/minister and pastoral team is to discern what the spiritual needs of their congregation is. Part of that discernment – although not all of it – is hearing what the congregation is requesting. (And, of course, discernment is not merely a “rubber stamp” of their requests…)
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I agree. But I also think that part of that process is listening with an open heart and an open mind. If you have already decided that the parish needs X, and then meet resistance when you try to introduce that idea to people, do you go back and reconsider whether or not the parish truly needs it, or do you simply push back against those who are giving you their feedback and then dismiss what they said because it doesn’t fit with your preconceived notion?
 
Duesenberg said:
That has not happened, not even close – despite a great deal of material support from the bishops for the EF Mass.
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That’s where you lose me. I haven’t seen a “great deal of material support” for the Traditional Mass from the bishops. More often I encounter or read stories of reluctance and skepticism on the part of the bishops. I’ve never seen or heard of any sort of promotional material promulgated by a diocesan office that offers, for example, catechetical or historical seminars on the TLM. The TLM just kind of exists because SP says it has to, and the bishops have to oblige. So, it is there to be sought out by those who are looking for it or to be stumbled upon by those who aren’t, but to say that it enjoys a “great deal of material support” from the bishops is contrary to everything I have found (perhaps with the exception of a diocese like Lincoln, NE).
 
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casslean said:
If you have already decided that the parish needs X, and then meet resistance when you try to introduce that idea to people, do you go back and reconsider whether or not the parish truly needs it, or do you simply push back against those who are giving you their feedback and then dismiss what they said because it doesn’t fit with your preconceived notion?
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I think that it depends on the situation and the particular nature of the “X” in question.

(For instance, if there were liturgical dance at a parish and I stepped in as their pastor, I would decide that it was time to end that practice… even if there were significant push-back. On the other hand, if I decided that a physical renovation were in order, and there was push-back, then I’d need to re-evaluate the decision and open it up to additional discussion…)
 
Some parishes are very change resistant, sometimes its self destructive and an unwelcome change could be the right thing in the long term
 
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I’ve read through many of the responses here and I’m rather confused. @Duesenberg hasn’t, at least in my reading, suggested changing anyone’s Mass or eliminating the need for attending Mass. It’s not about adding guitars or more Latin. It’s not about becoming more charismatic or more traditional, it’s about exploring the needs of parishioners instead of making assumptions based on status quo or who the current largest segment attending mass happens to be.

The suggestion being made is that Catholics parishes aren’t addressing their parishioners needs and desires. You can do that and not change a thing about Mass.

The Catholic Church, as a whole, provides phenomenal levels of outreach and good to the world; but, at the local level, the level that gets parishioners to actually show up for Mass. In my experience, and the experience of other posters here, we stink at it!

I would LOVE to grow in faith in the more structured setting of a Bible study group. The only one my Church offers is, occasionally, at 10 am on Tuesdays, the few evening activities I have seen are at 6 and don’t provide childcare options.

I would love to volunteer but I couldn’t tell you the ministries that my Church participates in because the meeting times aren’t included on the calendar and the website has the very helpful advice to “call Janice” to inquire about opportunities/schedules. I understand I could call; but, really? This isn’t 1965. The church has a website, Facebook, a calendar… if “Janice” needs help keeping those updated POST TO FACEBOOK AND ASK FOR HELP. I’m sure someone would be willing but they won’t ask.

So, ok, maybe I don’t “need” these things but they sure wouldn’t hurt my faith life and would like be a big help.
 
LittleFlower said:
If the majority of parish life is happening however at 10am those who do seek out community, faith instruction or other ministries cannot attend.
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the majority of these activities take place in the evening in our parish. Only a few ministries focused on the elderly or retired take place during the day. Usually combining elementary school kids and older parishoners
 
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