Buddha and his teachings

[ahimsaman72]

Church Militant:

Good morning Ahimsaman72,
Do you practice Zen in your form?
I know that Zen is an ascetic philosophy and that some of the Japanese (national) martial artists practice it.

How is it different and in what way does it complement Buddhism?

Good morning friend.

Yes, basically I do. There are specific meditation exercises that are unique to Zen that I don’t practice. I practice “just sitting” meditation - letting ones thoughts drop away.

My favorite teacher is a Zen master (TNH) and has been the major contributor of my philosophy. He explains things in such a way that I can understand and grasp and that doesn’t deviate from my Christian practice.

Zen has different forms. Zen can actually be separated from Buddhism and exist in its own right. It’s both an easy and difficult philosophy to grasp. There are Zen Christians, Zen Buddhists, Zen Pagans, etc. Zen goes beyond the traditional ideas of the older schools of Buddhism (such as Theravada). It emphasizes long periods of meditation and the inherent Buddha nature in all things. It is a matter not of intellectual or moral effort. It is the absence of struggle to attain enlightenment and the presence of moment by moment mindfulness and awakening.

The introduction of the martial arts into the Western life is also the introduction of Eastern philosophies such as Taoism and Buddhism. My father was in martial arts and loved Eastern philosophy (although we were Baptists ). He would meditate, burn incense, etc. It is through martial arts that he was influenced by Eastern thought. I remember visiting Buddhist temples whenever we would travel. There weren’t many Buddhist temples in the hills of Tenn.

Peace out…

 

[cainem]

no disrespect but who gives a fig for buddhism, this is supposed to be a catholic/christian forum, if you want truth read the bible if you want to meditate meditate on the rosary

 

[ahimsaman72]

cainem:

no disrespect but who gives a fig for buddhism, this is supposed to be a catholic/christian forum, if you want truth read the bible if you want to meditate meditate on the rosary

Ironically, this is a Catholic forum which invites non-Catholics here by providing a “non-Catholic religions” section and tracts for all people to read and study. If Catholic Answers doesn’t want non-Catholics here, then they should delete this part of the forum. I hope they don’t.

And, how can you have an apologetics section without having debates. Who are Catholics going to debate if there’s only other Catholics on the site? It’s beneficial for all people. For people such as yourself, it could help you hone your apologetic skills and maybe you can learn something in the process. For me, it has helped me learn about Catholicism and in the process I have met some wonderful, compassionate people I can call “friends”.

Peace…

 

[Mickey]

ahimsaman72:

They assert that it is by morality, meditation and wisdom that one achieves nirvana.

Hey ahim!

Where does this wisdom originate?

 

[ahimsaman72]

Mickey:

Hey ahim!

Where does this wisdom originate?

Hey there Mickey!

Well, the short answer is that wisdom is produced by the individual. The “wisdom” part of the path involves “right views/understanding” and “right thoughts”. That is - once one truly understands reality and extinguishes the attachments of the ego - then wisdom is the natural result. It’s a cause and effect principle.

All aspects of the eightfold path are directly dependent on each other. You can’t have right speech if your thoughts and views are wrong. You can’t perform wholesome actions if your livelihood is as an abortion doctor. All relate to each other and are intertwined. If you produce one, you produce the other. If you neglect one the path cannot be completed.

They each are much deeper than simple posts here. I have only given the basic understandings here. There’s many sites that are “libraries” of Buddhist Sutras and get in real detail. One of those is: www.accesstoinsight.org It has the biggest library and best authorship. I offer that for you and others in case they want to get deeper info from “the horses mouth” .

Hope that helps.

Peace…

 

[dennisknapp]

ahimsaman72:

Religion defies logic in many ways. Many things in the Christian faith are not logical. Is it logical for Christ to perform miracles? No. It’s beyond logic. Is it logical for Christ to raise from the dead? No, not in the mathematical, logical way.

All that we experience on earth is phenomena. All that is above is noumena. We can’t adequately put those two together and expect one to have the same laws and principles as the other. God is not subject to laws of the earth - He is beyond time, science, logic.

Peace…

Is it possible for God to be all loving and all hating at the same time and in the same sense? Or is it possible for God to exist and not exist at the same time and in the same sense?

This is what I am getting at. Faith is rational and logical because God is rational and logical (logos). God is Truth, for Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. It would be against God’s nature to tell lies to us. To say to us that good is evil and evil is good. This just cannot be.

Peace

 

[ahimsaman72]

dennisknapp:

Is it possible for God to be all loving and all hating at the same time and in the same sense? Or is it possible for God to exist and not exist at the same time and in the same sense?

Yes it is. Is it possible for you to be loving one moment and not loving the next moment? Yes. We embody both evil and good. Our hands can be used to do our work or to kill someone. Are the hands evil in and of themselves? No.

Asking the question can God exist and not exist at the same time is similar to asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. This question will take me some time to answer well. I don’t know at the moment how to express my concepts.

This is what I am getting at. Faith is rational and logical because God is rational and logical (logos). God is Truth, for Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. It would be against God’s nature to tell lies to us. To say to us that good is evil and evil is good. This just cannot be.

Peace

Faith is rational in some respects and in others it is not. God is rational and logical. Laws of physics and science show us that. But, naturally if we believe He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent (I assume you do) then in some respects He is beyond rationale. I don’t believe God has ever lied to us.

I believe we have misinterpreted Him and fit Him into a box that He cannot be put into. The duality of good and evil is an illusion in the Buddhist context. There’s a lot of philosophy that one would have to take into account to adequately discuss this. We can’t pull this out of the whole and expect to understand the whole.

Hopefully that helped some.

Peace…

 

[Exporter]

cainem:

no disrespect but who gives a fig for buddhism, this is supposed to be a catholic/christian forum, if you want truth read the bible if you want to meditate meditate on the rosary

---

Yes, cainemjno, this is Catholic Answers Forum - and it is funded by “catholic” dollars. We are now on something called “NonCatholic Topics”. So this is the place for nonCatholic posters or nonCatholic topics to be posted.

I recognise your respect for others, especially ahimsaman72. What he is doing is educating those who are interested im some fundamentals of the philosophy of Buddhism. I don’t see anyone attempting to snatch anyone away from Catholocism.

I spent almost 4 years in the Far East adn on two occasions I was treated as a VIP when visiting a Buddhist Temple. I always wondered how thay could treat me as they did. There was something in what they did that was good. There is a site for “Centering Prayer” here.cellofpeace.com/cp_method.htm Father Thomas Keating, a Trappist Monk has incorporated Buddhist methods for Centering Prayer. Read it. It tells you things you dont know. May you grow in faith and may the Lord smile upon you.

 

[dennisknapp]

ahimsaman72:

Yes it is. Is it possible for you to be loving one moment and not loving the next moment? Yes. We embody both evil and good. Our hands can be used to do our work or to kill someone. Are the hands evil in and of themselves? No.

Asking the question can God exist and not exist at the same time is similar to asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. This question will take me some time to answer well. I don’t know at the moment how to express my concepts.

Faith is rational in some respects and in others it is not. God is rational and logical. Laws of physics and science show us that. But, naturally if we believe He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent (I assume you do) then in some respects He is beyond rationale. I don’t believe God has ever lied to us.

I believe we have misinterpreted Him and fit Him into a box that He cannot be put into. The duality of good and evil is an illusion in the Buddhist context. There’s a lot of philosophy that one would have to take into account to adequately discuss this. We can’t pull this out of the whole and expect to understand the whole.

Hopefully that helped some.

Peace…

How do you believe we have misinterpreted Him if God is beyond logic and reason? I know that God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient, but I do not see how this relates to God not doing or saying contradictory things.

What we are talking about is reality. In reality if one wishes to defy to Law of Gravity one will be dead or badly injured. In the same way when God declares something to be true, like Jesus is God or the Shema in Duet. chapter 6, he is excluding Allah, Krishna, Zues, Odin, Giai, etc. from this truth claim. For our God and Krishna cannot both be God at the same time and in the same sense.

Peace

 

[joehar]

ahimsaman72:

Hey there Mickey!

Well, the short answer is that wisdom is produced by the individual. The “wisdom” part of the path involves “right views/understanding” and “right thoughts”. That is - once one truly understands reality and extinguishes the attachments of the ego - then wisdom is the natural result. It’s a cause and effect principle.

All aspects of the eightfold path are directly dependent on each other. You can’t have right speech if your thoughts and views are wrong. You can’t perform wholesome actions if your livelihood is as an abortion doctor. All relate to each other and are intertwined. If you produce one, you produce the other. If you neglect one the path cannot be completed.

They each are much deeper than simple posts here. I have only given the basic understandings here. There’s many sites that are “libraries” of Buddhist Sutras and get in real detail. One of those is: www.accesstoinsight.org It has the biggest library and best authorship. I offer that for you and others in case they want to get deeper info from “the horses mouth” .

Hope that helps.

Peace…

How can you say Buddha came before Christ , read John 1 (all), Depend on self - Depend on Jesus , Trying to rationalize with a buddhist. You can choose to serve God or the Devil. Life or Death - Choose life (Christ)

 

[ahimsaman72]

dennisknapp:

How do you believe we have misinterpreted Him if God is beyond logic and reason? I know that God is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient, but I do not see how this relates to God not doing or saying contradictory things.

What we are talking about is reality. In reality if one wishes to defy to Law of Gravity one will be dead or badly injured. In the same way when God declares something to be true, like Jesus is God or the Shema in Duet. chapter 6, he is excluding Allah, Krishna, Zues, Odin, Giai, etc. from this truth claim. For our God and Krishna cannot both be God at the same time and in the same sense.

Peace

We interpret based on our basic human abilities, but we would all admit there have been times that our human ability to understand something has been flawed or incomplete. Your perception and my perception of God could be flawed. He isn’t flawed. Our perceptions are flawed.

Again, you are seeking to combine phenomena with noumena. There is a difference between the two. Both are reality but are different realities. For example: is the Christian concept of the reality of Heaven the same as the reality of New York City. They are beyond comparison.

We say there is a heavenly Jerusalem. Is the Heavenly Jerusalem the same as the Jerusalem on earth? No. Heaven is noumena and New York City is phenomena. One is a vertical relationship and the other is horizontal. The law of gravity isn’t effective on the Moon. It is in effect on the earth. It is easy to see these two distinct realities.

God’s nature doesn’t change. He is the same no matter what. Hindus may comprehend the absolute God as Krishna. Muslims may comprehend the absolute God as Allah. Buddhists may comprehend the absolute God as “the ground of being”. It’s in the eye of the beholder - not in the Beholder Himself. His nature is what we perceive it to be - through Scriptures, apostolic Tradition, etc.

Peace…

 

[St.Gimp]

ahimsaman72:

dennisknapp:

Is it possible for God to be all loving and all hating at the same time and in the same sense?

Yes it is. Is it possible for you to be loving one moment and not loving the next moment? Yes.

Interesting… Dennis asked whether one could be loving and hating at the same time and in the same sense, then you respond by saying that one can be loving and hating at different times in the same sense. You’re not falsifying the law of non-contradiction, you’re side-stepping it.

 

[buzzcut]

ahimsaman72:

Ironically, this is a Catholic forum which invites non-Catholics here by providing a “non-Catholic religions” section and tracts for all people to read and study. If Catholic Answers doesn’t want non-Catholics here, then they should delete this part of the forum

It’s true. This is the Non-Catholic Religions board. But some give the impression that discussion of Non-Catholic Religions is considered off-topic. Very Zen.

 

[Katholikos]

"The most prominent religious picture in which God does not figure at all is, of course, the Buddhist religion. This religion can be characterized not only as non-theistic but more so as atheistic; that is to say, not only does the Buddhist religion discard the notion of God as a religious term, but it vehemently rejects any use of this notion as meaningless. Buddhism is, therefore, a religion without God."

darkfiber.com/atheisms/atheisms/buddhism.html

JMJ Jay

 

[ahimsaman72]

St. Gimp:

Interesting… Dennis asked whether one could be loving and hating at the same time and in the same sense, then you respond by saying that one can be loving and hating at different times in the same sense. You’re not falsifying the law of non-contradiction, you’re side-stepping it.

My definition of “same time” and “same sense” may be different from yours. I didn’t suppose he meant same chronological time - but figured it was an expression. I have to admit my level of intelligence has its limits . I’m not an expert on philosophy, religion or science (obviously). I’m simply answering the best I can.

Peace…

 

[St.Gimp]

ahimsaman72:

I didn’t suppose he meant same chronological time - but figured it was an expression.

Out of curiosity, what kind of time did you think he was referring to?

 

[ahimsaman72]

"The most prominent religious picture in which God does not figure at all is, of course, the Buddhist religion. This religion can be characterized not only as non-theistic but more so as atheistic; that is to say, not only does the Buddhist religion discard the notion of God as a religious term, but it vehemently rejects any use of this notion as meaningless. Buddhism is, therefore, a religion without God."

darkfiber.com/atheisms/atheisms/buddhism.html

JMJ Jay

Amazingly enough this person had this to say right before the above quote:

“Buddha also rejected religious devotion (bhakti) as a way of salvation. His position was the sort of atheism we have already noted in Mahavira. He believed that the universe abounded in gods, goddesses, demons, and other nonhuman powers and agencies; but all were without exception finite, subject to death and rebirth. In the absence, then, of some transcendent, eternal Being, older than the Creation, and the Maker of heaven and earth, who could direct men’s destinies and hear and grant human wishes, prayer, to Buddha, was of no avail; he at least did not resort to it. For similar reasons he did not put any reliance on the Vedas, or on practice of their nature worship, or on the performance of their rituals as a way of redemption; now would he countenance going to the Brahmins as priests.”

Sorry, this person is talking out of both sides of his mouth or has a different definition of atheism than I know of. This isn’t indicative of all Buddhist philosophy and religion. A better source would be to go to different Buddhist schools of thought to get their opinion rather than a non-Buddhist atheist. It’s kinda like going to a protestant to learn about Catholicism.

Peace…

 

[Strider]

First of all, thanks ahimsaman, for the PM invitation to this thread.
I’m going to relate a bizarre belief system (I can’t call it a theology), from a woman who worked at a polling place with me (16 hours!) one year.
She explained that Jesus, Mary and John were Essene mystics.
On the cross, Jesus didn’t really die, but put himself into a deathlike trance. Longinus didn’t plunge the spear into Jesus’ heart, but just pricked the skin.
In the tomb, Mary and John healed Jesus and he brought himself out of his trance. He spent the time between his burial and reaurrection in a Buddhist temple in India. By this time, I was too flummoxed to ask her how he got there.
This was her story and she stuck to it. After all, she learned it from her swami!
By way of explanation, for three years, she and her then-husband lived in a tee pee on a vacant lot in a college town north of here.
Fortunately, she is an extremely pleasant person and wasn’t offended at all when I told her I thought this all completely bizarre and ridiculoous.
The reasdon I bring it up here is that her whole philosophy was derived from eastern religiions.
This is NOT to say that all practitioners of eastern reilgions are bizarre. Heck, we have our unusual Christians, too.
Now to the point. She believed in reincarnation, and in each reincarnation we are supposed to learn something that makies us better than we were in our last incarnation. This is the karma thing.
Since I am in a wheelchair, I allowed as how I must’ve really screwed up in my last life. She disagreed, saying only there was “something” I had to learn, and she had no idea what it might be.
Is the learning thing from one incarnation to another a Buddhist belief?
A comment to Exporter, centering prayer and Christianity are incompatible. I refer you to this URL

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711fea1.asp

There are other articles on the same topic. Just type in “Centering prayer” into the CA search engine.

ahimsaman, you might want to take a peek at that, too.

Everything I have heard about eastern religions indicate they relate to Chrishtanity like oil and water. If one does Yoga or one of the martial arts simply for exercise and recreation, there is no problem, but the underlying philosophies are inimical.

 

[ahimsaman72]

St. Gimp:

Out of curiosity, what kind of time did you think he was referring to?

And why are we discussing this??? Okay…well, in the South we have expressions that are somewhat ridiculous. For example:

One might say,“Mary has been practicin’ ballet and playin’ softball at the same time”. Mary can’t really be practicing ballet and playing softball at the same exact chronological moment. “Same time” would mean “on equal terms” or “just as much” - not necessarily equivalent to exact chronological periods. Boy, the more we talk about this the crazier it seems. Maybe we can move on to something else???

Peace…

 

[Kevin_Walker]

I have observed several times in the past year and a half of Jesus being compared with Buddha in some capacity, and some are spreading rumors that the teachings of Jesus are so similar to Buddhism that Jesus was inspired by the Bodhiharma in some way.

I just want to refute all these as sheer anti-Catholic propaganda and have done so to the individiuals spreading these rumors (another rumor I have argued against recently is that of a female Pope, the myth of Pope Joan).

If you know your Catholic Church history, you can disavow any malicious gossip and anti-Catholic propaganda.