Buddha and his teachings

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ahimsaman72:
And why are we discussing this??? Okay…well, in the South we have expressions that are somewhat ridiculous. For example:

One might say,“Mary has been practicin’ ballet and playin’ softball at the same time”. Mary can’t really be practicing ballet and playing softball at the same exact chronological moment. “Same time” would mean “on equal terms” or “just as much” - not necessarily equivalent to exact chronological periods. Boy, the more we talk about this the crazier it seems. Maybe we can move on to something else???
It’s not crazy. The phrase “at the same time and in the same sense” is a common philosophical phrase with a precise meaning, and your response indicated that you either didn’t understand this or didn’t care. It would be “crazy” not to try to understand what your opponent is saying.

Glad we cleared this up.
 
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ahimsaman72:
And why are we discussing this??? Okay…well, in the South we have expressions that are somewhat ridiculous. For example:

One might say,“Mary has been practicin’ ballet and playin’ softball at the same time”. Mary can’t really be practicing ballet and playing softball at the same exact chronological moment. “Same time” would mean “on equal terms” or “just as much” - not necessarily equivalent to exact chronological periods. Boy, the more we talk about this the crazier it seems. Maybe we can move on to something else???
It’s not crazy. The phrase “at the same time and in the same sense” is a common philosophical phrase with a precise meaning, and your response indicated that you either didn’t understand this or didn’t care. It would be “crazy” not to try to understand what your opponent is saying.

Glad we cleared this up.
 
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Strider:
First of all, thanks ahimsaman, for the PM invitation to this thread.
I’m going to relate a bizarre belief system (I can’t call it a theology), from a woman who worked at a polling place with me (16 hours!) one year.
She explained that Jesus, Mary and John were Essene mystics.
On the cross, Jesus didn’t really die, but put himself into a deathlike trance. Longinus didn’t plunge the spear into Jesus’ heart, but just pricked the skin.
In the tomb, Mary and John healed Jesus and he brought himself out of his trance. He spent the time between his burial and reaurrection in a Buddhist temple in India. By this time, I was too flummoxed to ask her how he got there.
This was her story and she stuck to it. After all, she learned it from her swami!
By way of explanation, for three years, she and her then-husband lived in a tee pee on a vacant lot in a college town north of here.
Fortunately, she is an extremely pleasant person and wasn’t offended at all when I told her I thought this all completely bizarre and ridiculoous.
The reasdon I bring it up here is that her whole philosophy was derived from eastern religiions.
This is NOT to say that all practitioners of eastern reilgions are bizarre. Heck, we have our unusual Christians, too.
Now to the point. She believed in reincarnation, and in each reincarnation we are supposed to learn something that makies us better than we were in our last incarnation. This is the karma thing.
Since I am in a wheelchair, I allowed as how I must’ve really screwed up in my last life. She disagreed, saying only there was “something” I had to learn, and she had no idea what it might be.
Is the learning thing from one incarnation to another a Buddhist belief?
A comment to Exporter, centering prayer and Christianity are incompatible. I refer you to this URL

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711fea1.asp

There are other articles on the same topic. Just type in “Centering prayer” into the CA search engine.

ahimsaman, you might want to take a peek at that, too.

Everything I have heard about eastern religions indicate they relate to Chrishtanity like oil and water. If one does Yoga or one of the martial arts simply for exercise and recreation, there is no problem, but the underlying philosophies are inimical.
Yes, that is rather strange about Jesus, Mary and John. From what little I know of gnosticism this material resembles what I’ve seen labeled as gnostic. There was a man who went to India and supposedly found documents that spoke about a person named “Issa” who gained healing knowledge and such. This was reportedly Jesus. I find it hard to believe that the time Jesus was 12 years old to roughly 30 years old was spent in the East gaining this kind of knowledge and power.

Reincarnation is a Hindu philosophy. Buddhism doesn’t see this concept as identical to what they call “rebirth” or “continuation”. The concept of karma is similar - moral laws of cause and effect. Honestly, traditional Buddhism teaches that one’s previous “life” of actions determines the next existence. Once enough negative karma has been “used up” one can be born into a higher realm - say from the animal realm to the human realm. Human birth is seen as the best birth one can possibly attain to. It is a treasured existence.

The concepts of karma and rebirth can be seen as mental realities and not actual physical realities. Some Buddhists believe that both are literally true physical experiences and others such as myself believe it’s really more of a mental experience within one’s own mind and body.

Hopefully that helps.

Peace…
 
St. Gimp:
It’s not crazy. The phrase “at the same time and in the same sense” is a common philosophical phrase with a precise meaning, and your response indicated that you either didn’t understand this or didn’t care. It would be “crazy” not to try to understand what your opponent is saying.

Glad we cleared this up.
If anything I misunderstood. I take people’s words seriously and respect what they are saying. I thought we were on the same page. Anyway, the really weird thing is that it wasn’t even you I was speaking with - yet you are hounding me about it and I haven’t even heard back from him. That’s incredible. One could say he doesn’t care and you are picking a fight - but I won’t say that. I believe your intent could be genuine. Glad you showed me - shows you are a much bigger man than I am 😛

And by the way, welcome to the Catholic Answers forum…hope you stick around to enlighten us further.

Peace…
 
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ahimsaman72:
We interpret based on our basic human abilities, but we would all admit there have been times that our human ability to understand something has been flawed or incomplete. Your perception and my perception of God could be flawed. He isn’t flawed. Our perceptions are flawed.

Again, you are seeking to combine phenomena with noumena. There is a difference between the two. Both are reality but are different realities. For example: is the Christian concept of the reality of Heaven the same as the reality of New York City. They are beyond comparison.

We say there is a heavenly Jerusalem. Is the Heavenly Jerusalem the same as the Jerusalem on earth? No. Heaven is noumena and New York City is phenomena. One is a vertical relationship and the other is horizontal. The law of gravity isn’t effective on the Moon. It is in effect on the earth. It is easy to see these two distinct realities.

God’s nature doesn’t change. He is the same no matter what. Hindus may comprehend the absolute God as Krishna. Muslims may comprehend the absolute God as Allah. Buddhists may comprehend the absolute God as “the ground of being”. It’s in the eye of the beholder - not in the Beholder Himself. His nature is what we perceive it to be - through Scriptures, apostolic Tradition, etc.

Peace…
I am basically trying to get across the understanding that God can not be *a *and non-a at the same time (chronologically speaking) and in the same sense. To say that he can would be like me writing that I am not typing in English right now. This would be an irrational claim and obviously self-defeating because I am typing in English.

In the same way God *cannot *do or be something that is contradictory. All things are possible for God but they have to be logically possible. Is it illogical for God be both evil and good at the same time and in the same sense, for this would be a contradiction.

Wouldn’t you agree?

And the law of gravity does apply on the moon as it does with the rest of the Universe. It is the physical force that keeps the Universe together.

Peace
 
ahimisman72,

I know that you answered this to some extent. But would you try to answer this?

We Catholics have a motivation to try to avoid sinnly things (ha, I coined a new word). We fear hell, dread the loss of heaven and desire heaven.

What are the motives of a Buddhist to avoid doing evil things and to seek to do good. The leaders of North Korea do not seem to avoid Evil}:tiphat:

Your screen name …does it mean" a him is a man!"
 
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dennisknapp:
I am basically trying to get across the understanding that God can not be *a *and non-a at the same time (chronologically speaking) and in the same sense. To say that he can would be like me writing that I am not typing in English right now. This would be an irrational claim and obviously self-defeating because I am typing in English.

In the same way God *cannot *do or be something that is contradictory. All things are possible for God but they have to be logically possible. Is it illogical for God be both evil and good at the same time and in the same sense, for this would be a contradiction.

Wouldn’t you agree?

And the law of gravity does apply on the moon as it does with the rest of the Universe. It is the physical force that keeps the Universe together.

Peace
I do see your point. I don’t see where chronological time matters or is applicable when discussing these kinds of things. As I have asserted already, God is beyond chronological time in His essence.

Again, I don’t see logic, mathematics and science as necessary in the religious or philosophical realm. I wouldn’t go to a mathematician to get a science degree. I wouldn’t go to the Dalai Lama to get training in scuba diving.

It figures my science would be wrong. I equated weightlessness outside the earth’s atmosphere to “no gravity”. I did tell you I was no expert - after all.

Peace…
 
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Exporter:
ahimisman72,

I know that you answered this to some extent. But would you try to answer this?

We Catholics have a motivation to try to avoid sinnly things (ha, I coined a new word). We fear hell, dread the loss of heaven and desire heaven.

What are the motives of a Buddhist to avoid doing evil things and to seek to do good. [The leaders of North Korea do not seem to avoid Evil}:tiphat:

Your screen name …does it mean" a him is a man!"
The motivation to avoid evil in Buddhism is based on many things. It is based on fear of creating bad karma which results to suffering - either in this life or the next. It is also based on the teachings of the Buddha himself. He taught others to be compassionate and kind simply because “others” are really “you”. Everyone is part of the same reality. If you do good to “others” you are doing good to “yourself”. And who doesn’t want to help themselves?

And, my screen name is based on the Sanskrit word “ahimsa” which means basically “non-violence” and man of course because I am a man and 72 is year I was born.

Are the North Koreans predominantly Buddhist or atheist? The Chinese have Buddhism but of course their government is atheistic. So, go figure.

Peace…
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I would be very careful as too looking for truth in Buddhism as it appears similar to Christianity but in reality it is vastly different.
Buddhists attempt to escape Suffering and this is the basis of thier belief. They have a detachment which verges on total lack of Charity, Infact you will not find Charities run by Buddhists, in thier lands, you will find them run by Catholics.
Suffering is something that we as Christians do not like either but we can unite our suffering with that of our Christ. There is virtue in suffering and how one deals with it, many Saints have achieved Holiness by embracing suffering in Union with the Suffering Christ.
The matter of God is a very important one as Buddhists try to achieve “nirvana” by there own will alone and seek no help or acknowledge a God. This totally at odds with us, who, as we know are totally dependant on God to achieve our salvation and Holiness.
All that is necessary for salvation is to be found in the Catholic Church, we need no other inspiration. Alhough aknowledging other Faiths contribution is a good thing, we do not need to sink to sncrytism.
 
St. Gimp:
It’s not crazy. The phrase “at the same time and in the same sense” is a common philosophical phrase with a precise meaning, and your response indicated that you either didn’t understand this or didn’t care. It would be “crazy” not to try to understand what your opponent is saying.

Glad we cleared this up.
And, by the way, I don’t see Dennis as my opponent. It’s not about scoring points.
 
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joehar:
How can you say Buddha came before Christ , read John 1 (all), Depend on self - Depend on Jesus , Trying to rationalize with a buddhist. You can choose to serve God or the Devil. Life or Death - Choose life (Christ)
Buddha was born in his physical body approximately 563 BC. Jesus Christ was born in His physical body approximately 4 BC.

Peace…
 
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ahimsaman72:
I’m saying that he was indeed on the right track. He saw by simple observation that the world just isn’t “right”. There’s something wrong. He saw it for what it was. He saw people suffering, dying, dejected, hurt. He knew there must be a way out of this cycle of suffering. He was determined to find that way out.
So, he meditated in the “wilderness” for 6 years and became enlightened
So was Buddah of the opinion that the world is inherently evil?
 
First of all Ahimisman why are you Baptist?
The way your answering questions you should be Catholic.

Is there a Buddhism “bible”? Who makes the “rules”, and interprets them?
Is there anything like miracles, evangelizing etc.

QUOTE:""""""“The motivation to avoid evil in Buddhism is based on many things. It is based on fear of creating bad karma which results to suffering - either in this life or the next. It is also based on the teachings of the Buddha himself. He taught others to be compassionate and kind simply because “others” are really “you”. Everyone is part of the same reality. If you do good to “others” you are doing good to “yourself”. And who doesn’t want to help themselves?”"""""

I dont understand or cant understand suffering the way I see it in Buddhism…
To me I would only accept suffering as a “punishment” in the next life if I was healthy/happy right now (ie in this life) and see that those guys in pain/suffering deserve it. Second how can a person in pure pain and agony or even braindead learn from his past? Also if a person was good enough to pass and have a good next life why or how would it be possible for him to fail? The same goes for the flip view, if someone is evil how can he change/learn. Who distinguishes between living a good life off peoples’ back/crime and living a humble charitable life…what if all you knew were riches and servants.
And this thing about being hurt/suffering caused by others, this is unfair to the person being hurt, why couldnt he be born hurt instead of living a perfect life and getting paralyzed when he is older.
  1. What role does history play in Buddishm? for example I belive that God created the world a long time ago, then the Jews come along, then Christ, Catholic Church, 2nd coming, etc. what do you believe before Buddah?
 
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ahimsaman72:
It is both a religion and a philosophy. Depends on who you talk to 🙂

Sin is not easily transferable between the faiths. In Buddhism there are wholesome and unwholesome actions. Unwholesome actions are those which either hurt “yourself” or “others”. Wholesome actions are those which are beneficial to either “yourself” or “others”. So, that’s the only relation to sin there is in Buddhism. So, there’s no forgiveness of sin from a divine viewpoint. However, if one does harm to another one is expected to make it right - so that would be forgiveness.

Peace…
I know that in Tibetan Buddhism their are what’s called prelimenary practices which students of Buddhism follow which
entail that by doing them in ernest, the practices ( prayer and ritual offerings ) help one gain ‘merit’ in obtaining dissolution of their sin ( sin is refered to as samsara : the ocean of suffering in our fallen world ).

:coffee: have a cup on me.
 
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CreosMary:
I would be very careful as too looking for truth in Buddhism as it appears similar to Christianity but in reality it is vastly different.
Buddhists attempt to escape Suffering and this is the basis of thier belief. They have a detachment which verges on total lack of Charity, Infact you will not find Charities run by Buddhists, in thier lands, you will find them run by Catholics.
Suffering is something that we as Christians do not like either but we can unite our suffering with that of our Christ. There is virtue in suffering and how one deals with it, many Saints have achieved Holiness by embracing suffering in Union with the Suffering Christ.
The matter of God is a very important one as Buddhists try to achieve “nirvana” by there own will alone and seek no help or acknowledge a God. This totally at odds with us, who, as we know are totally dependant on God to achieve our salvation and Holiness.
All that is necessary for salvation is to be found in the Catholic Church, we need no other inspiration. Alhough aknowledging other Faiths contribution is a good thing, we do not need to sink to sncrytism.
Escaping suffering and seeking happiness is universal to all people in all ages. Some seek it by accumulating wealth, some by overeating, some by drinking. Suffering is part of life. The Buddhist approach to suffering is not one of detachment from suffering. It is one of acceptance of suffering. It is about realization of suffering, seeing the causes and eliminating the causes. If anything, Buddhism understands and deals with suffering more than any other religion on earth.

Peace…
 
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Sowndog:
So was Buddah of the opinion that the world is inherently evil?
He didn’t have an opinion of the “evilness” of the world. He saw by simple observation that things just weren’t “good” - that happiness and life escaped us all in the end.

Peace…
 
Catholic Dude:
First of all Ahimisman why are you Baptist?
The way your answering questions you should be Catholic.
:hmmm: Well, I was born Southern Baptist and continue to be Baptist because the tenets of that faith is just as plausible if not more so than any other denomination
Is there a Buddhism “bible”? Who makes the “rules”, and interprets them?
Is there anything like miracles, evangelizing etc.
There are Buddhist Scriptures - they are the Pali Canon. This is the oldest surviving collection. This collection is enormous and is not widely available. One can purchase it, but it is very expensive. A website that houses parts of them is at: www.accesstoinsight.org

Approximately 100 years after Buddha died his monks held the first council recited all the teachings of the Buddha. So, originally his teachings were passed down orally. Later, they began to be written down and preserved.

There are at least 18 major schools of Buddhism - each make their own rules and interpret them. The oldest school is Theravada which emphasizes the monastic life. The latest schools emphasize lay participation and less monastic life.

There are no miracles in the supernatural sense. Evangelizing is not part and parcel of the Buddhist faith. One is free to accept or reject without intimidation. Before he died Buddha told his followers to go in all directions teaching.
I dont understand or cant understand suffering the way I see it in Buddhism…
To me I would only accept suffering as a “punishment” in the next life if I was healthy/happy right now (ie in this life) and see that those guys in pain/suffering deserve it. Second how can a person in pure pain and agony or even braindead learn from his past?
There’s a lot of questions here that I don’t fully understand. I think explaining karma and rebirth a bit would help here. Karma is basically the law of cause and effect. Karma is “actions”. In the physical realm if you hit a brick wall with your fist - your fist would probably get broken. In the moral realm it is the same. If you cheat on your spouse, chances are you will suffer loss.

This idea is not totally foreign to Christianity. “Do not be deceived, a man reaps what he sows”. This is true physically, emotionally and morally. Karma in Buddhism isn’t a “punishment” sent from a divine being. It’s an impersonal force that “decides” the fate of the person. So, I think the misunderstanding comes from trying to apply Christian principles to a Buddhist concept that is not truly possible.

Rebirth is naturally related to karma. In the traditional schools, rebirth is “physical” and just as real as the reality of you reading my post. In the later schools rebirth has been looked upon as perhaps a mental state. Mind is the maker of all things. Mind precedes all things. This the teaching of Buddhism. Since this is the case, it’s not a far leap to accept that the mind creates either hells or god realms for oneself instead of it being a physical reality.
  1. What role does history play in Buddishm? for example I belive that God created the world a long time ago, then the Jews come along, then Christ, Catholic Church, 2nd coming, etc. what do you believe before Buddah?
Well, these are some good questions. Buddhism takes the scientific approach to history and the “beginning” of life scientifically also. Buddhism accepts the explanations of science in regards to life on earth and realities of the universe.

I personally believe before the Buddha the same principles as you believe. The difference would be in how we understand God and the second coming, etc. I believe the claims of the Bible. I believe that we should take it not simply for its face value. Instead of getting lost in details, the explanations found in the Bible are to point you in the right direction instead of define absolutes.

For instance, I would not posit a literal 24 hour day creation week. I would take it for what it is - an explanation of origins - not a scientific treatise. Concepts and ideas about realities are not the realities themselves. I can tell you the song of a Robin sounds like such and such. I can point you in the right direction. However, you need to experience the song of a Robin before you can truly understand the nature of the song and the voice of the Robin.

Hopefully this has helped some. I’m a student of Buddhism and no expert. So, take it for what it’s worth.

Peace…
 
MARIA METKO:
I know that in Tibetan Buddhism their are what’s called prelimenary practices which students of Buddhism follow which
entail that by doing them in ernest, the practices ( prayer and ritual offerings ) help one gain ‘merit’ in obtaining dissolution of their sin ( sin is refered to as samsara : the ocean of suffering in our fallen world ).

:coffee: have a cup on me.
Hello Maria -

The same is true in Theravada Buddhism. One obtains merit by practicing moral discipline, offerings, chanting, etc. The purpose is to dispel bad karma and create good karma and thus even if one does not reach enlightenment in this life, they will not have to suffer in a lower realm of existence.

Sin doesn’t truly exist in Buddhism. Actions are either wholesome and skillful or unwholesome and unskillful. Samsara is the vicious cycle of life and death in which one is born again and again without achieving nirvana. One is born again and again without rest or peace. For some this is a physical reality and for some this is only a mental reality. Sin implies guilt and punishment by a divine being which Buddhism declines to take a stand on.

Have a cup of java on me!!

Peace…
 
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dennisknapp:
I am basically trying to get across the understanding that God can not be *a *and non-a at the same time (chronologically speaking) and in the same sense. To say that he can would be like me writing that I am not typing in English right now. This would be an irrational claim and obviously self-defeating because I am typing in English.

In the same way God *cannot *do or be something that is contradictory. All things are possible for God but they have to be logically possible. Is it illogical for God be both evil and good at the same time and in the same sense, for this would be a contradiction.

Peace
While I was reading last night, I came across the fact that Jesus is both Son of God and Son of man at the same time. He is explained as both in Scriptures and in modern belief. This is a mystery - how divine and human can reside in the same “place” - the body of the Lord. The Trinity is in essence the same. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all divine - at the same time and in the same sense. When people are married they become “one”. They are two separate people but are considered as “one” entity.
Maybe this only confuses matters more. It would be nice just to be on the same page.

Peace…
 
Haven’t been a round cause of the system problems. Looks like you are having fun.

As I stated a long time ago, I was studying buddhism several years ago during my spiritual quest. I found the following:
  1. While the selflessness life is a fulfilling life, it is awefull lonley.
  2. The universe could not be explained without a higher diety…big bang or not, there is a God.
  3. Jesus brings us no new teachings. What he taught/teaches is consistent with the teachings of Buddha which is consistent with the Old Testament. Though Buddha came before Jesus, the Mosaic Law came before Buddha and before Thich Nhat Hanh and Jesus’ teachings fulfill the Mosaic prophcies, no buddha even came close.
There are not arguments nor am I trying to convert you to anything or prove anything. These are my findings and why I decided to follow Christ.
 
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