Buddhism: A Dangerous Wave From the East?

[kell0618]

In the wake of the Second Vatican Council’s call for respectful dialogue with other religions, many Catholics, including many priests and religious, dove headlong into studying Buddhism. Much was made (and still is) of the many “common characteristics” of Catholicism and Buddhism, especially in the realm of ethics. External similarities, including monks, meditation, and prayer beads, seemed to indicate a newly discovered closeness between the followers of Christ and Buddha. While some helpful inter-religious dialogue and study was accomplished, some Catholics mistakenly concluded that Buddhism was just as “true” as Christianity, and that any criticism of Buddhism was “arrogant” and “triumphalistic.”

Source

I think I found myself in the end of that last sentence. I guess I’m not alone after all.

 

[faelpsanfeel]

Source

I think I found myself in the end of that last sentence. I guess I’m not alone after all.

But that doesn’t mean that they converted to Buddhism.

 

[jrnami]

With the arrival of the Dalai Lama to the United States, April 24 - May 9, 2007, Christians must learn more about this visit and its purpose. “What does this have to do with us?” you may ask. One needs to understand buddhism first in order to clearly see how it contrasts with Catholicism specifically and Christianity in general.

Important basics about buddhism first:

• Buddhists believe that we have many lives but a soul that will end.
• Life is suffering and the way to get rid of suffering is to get rid of the desire and to eventually achieve ‘nirvana’ which means extinction.
• Some buddhists believe in no god, others believe in one God or many.
• In buddhism, there is no permanence of truth.
• The idea of sin is a stranger to buddhists.
• Buddha is considered a savior, but emphasis is placed solely on an individual’s journey and not a larger community.
• Buddhists evangelize by example only, tempting others with their peaceful demeanors which appear to be very attractive to people in these difficult times.
• Buddhists attempt to deconstruct logic and therefore logic does not exist.
  Please note that the likelihood of demonstrations and protests against the dalai lama’s visit is nil. This is quite a contrast to what happens whenever the Pope visits the U.S. Remember, just as papal visits can evangelize non-Catholics, the visit of the dalai lama can serve as evangelization among non-buddhists. It is the peaceful means by which the dalai lama is received that should sound an alarm in the heart of all Christians.

Catholics and many other Christians believe in the following and when contrasting the points above with these present below, you will see where there is a great danger for those weak in their faith:

• As Christians, we have one life on earth and one soul. Salvation is perceived as living in God’s presence forever in Heaven.
• Christians embrace suffering as seeing that it brings us closer to Christ.
• Catholics believe in particular and unchangeable truths.
• Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.
• Our doctrines and beliefs are in the foreground
  The appearance of peace and tranquility, immersed in the love for nature and beauty, buddhism can be alluring to the lambs of Christ who have become wayward. For those questioning what the secular media presents to us on a daily platter, the idea of peace and tranquility would certainly be well received.

Brothers and sisters in Christ, we are called to respect the dalai lama, but must keep in the forefront of our minds and hearts that there is a marked difference and to allow ourselves to be seduced by this non-salvific religion would be deadly. Peace is wonderful indeed, however we need to pursue the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ as He asks of us.

Be cautious especially in regard to our impressionable youth. Buddhism has found an ‘in’ among increasing numbers.

With prayer,

Kelly

For more information on Catholicism and Buddhism

No, Buddhism is not a dangerous wave. The Dalai Lama is a man of prayer who is peaceful and respects our religion.

Islam is a definate danger to us.

 

[rossum]

Why is it that many of the respondents within this thread see no problem with people leaving Christianity for Buddhism?

I see no problem with someone converting from Christianity to Buddhism because I am a Buddhist. Not everyone in this forum is a Christian.

The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ and that is not the ‘way’ for Buddhists. You have to believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior in order to attain eternal life with Him.

One of the reasons I left Christianity was because Christians often seem eager to narrow the way to salvation and to exclude people from salvation. You appear to be saying that every American before the arrival of Christianity was beyond the power of God to save just because Christian missionaries had not yet crossed the Atlantic ocean. What is the point of a God whose power to save is so limited?

rossum

 

[kell0618]

One of the reasons I left Christianity was because Christians often seem eager to narrow the way to salvation and to exclude people from salvation. You appear to be saying that every American before the arrival of Christianity was beyond the power of God to save just because Christian missionaries had not yet crossed the Atlantic ocean. What is the point of a God whose power to save is so limited?

rossum

Hello Rossum,

Christians do not narrow the way and exclude people from salvation; the people who are not saved exclude themselves when they choose to turn away from God.

I cannot speak for other Christian faiths, but the Catholic Church does not teach that all are damned to hell for eternity who do not embrace the Catholic faith. God puts the rope out for all, but He ultimately provides the opportunity for people to reach for it or deny it. You will find many posts in CAF in regard to the Catholic teachings on salvation. I’ll give you some examples from the Catechism:

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

Source

You will also find that the Catholic Church is not a Christian faith which claims to know who will and who will not be ultimately saved. We believe that the decision is made by the Lord and for us to proclaim who will and will not be damned for all eternity is to be playing God ourselves.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut into this discussion and I wish you much peace and many blessings.

 

[rossum]

I cannot speak for other Christian faiths, but the Catholic Church does not teach that all are damned to hell for eternity who do not embrace the Catholic faith. God puts the rope out for all, but He ultimately provides the opportunity for people to reach for it or deny it.

What you wrote was “The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ and that is not the ‘way’ for Buddhists. You have to believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior in order to attain eternal life with Him.” To me that sounded like all non-Christians are damned to Hell for all eternity. If that is not what you meant then my apologies for misunderstanding you. One of the things I find attractive about Buddhism is that it is universalist; everyone will attain nirvana eventually.

rossum

 

[kell0618]

What you wrote was “The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ and that is not the ‘way’ for Buddhists. You have to believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior in order to attain eternal life with Him.” To me that sounded like all non-Christians are damned to Hell for all eternity. If that is not what you meant then my apologies for misunderstanding you. One of the things I find attractive about Buddhism is that it is universalist; everyone will attain nirvana eventually.

rossum

Hello again, Rossum,

I was referring to the quote from the Bible directly from Jesus Christ Himself:
From John, Chapter 14:

Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him, “Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves. 12 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.

God gave us the directions or rules to live by. It is for Him to ultimately decide our fate in the end. I hope I clarified this a bit for you.

Kelly

 

[Ahimsa]

The Catholic Church does teach that salvation comes only via Jesus Christ. That’s pretty basic, but it’s a statement that can be misunderstood.

The statement doesn’t mean that salvation comes only via accepting – in this present lifetime – Jesus Christ.

So, someone like Gandhi or the Buddha, may in fact be saved, since they could have accepted – after their respective lifetimes – Jesus Christ.

This present life does not exhaust all of the potential time-spans.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

The Catholic Church does teach that salvation comes only via Jesus Christ. That’s pretty basic, but it’s a statement that can be misunderstood.

And it can also be misinterpreted by attempting to interpret it without reference to the body of the rest of the teachings of the Church.

The statement doesn’t mean that salvation comes only via accepting – in this present lifetime – Jesus Christ.

Given that the Church teaches that it is given that man live once and faces judgement, then there is simply no other time available.

So, someone like Gandhi or the Buddha, may in fact be saved, since they could have accepted – after their respective lifetimes – Jesus Christ.

Not Catholic teaching. The judgement all souls face is related to their thoughts, words, and deeds while living. Now in eternity, those not sent to hell will most certainly “accept” Jesus Christ. But that will not be an act of faith. They will be confronted with the reality of Him, in a manner that does not need faith to acknowledge Him for who He is and what He has done.

This present life does not exhaust all of the potential time-spans.

Well, yes it does, because after this lifetime in time, comes eternal life, in eternity, outside of time.

Now as for just how those who have never heard of Jesus Christ can come to be saved through Him, we can only answer that we do not know, since He did not tell us. He did, however, give us very explicit instructions to make Him known, and endeavour to encourage souls to come to Him.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Ahimsa]

Given that the Church teaches that it is given that man live once and faces judgement, then there is simply no other time available.

This would seem to imply the following. Let’s say Gandhi eventually enters into heaven, yet Gandhi did not consciously accept Christ during his lifetime. This would mean that, since there is no other time available other than the time of his lifetime, Gandhi actually did accept Christ in his lifetime, but in an unconscious way, or ‘anonymously’, as Karl Rahner suggested.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

This would seem to imply the following. Let’s say Gandhi eventually enters into heaven, yet Gandhi did not consciously accept Christ during his lifetime. This would mean that, since there is no other time available other than the time of his lifetime, Gandhi actually did accept Christ in his lifetime, but in an unconscious way, or ‘anonymously’, as Karl Rahner suggested.

At one level, the notion of “anonymous Christianity” was simply the ancient Christian recognition that “there are many whom Christ has that the Church does not have” — though all who are saved, even outside the formal boundaries of the Church, are saved through Christ. But it has been used to try and assert that, for instance, the missionary effort of the Church should be dialogue, not conversion. That’s anethema, and it, and other extensions of the notion beyond that of the ancient Christian recognition noted above never have been Church teaching, and a part of the faith.

Ghandi (or anyone else) in that situation cannot be said to have come to Christ at that point. He didn’t “come” to anything. Death brought him face to face with that reality.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[nils_iver]

i wonder, as long god didnt do any actions (an by actions i mean converting) anyone at asia into christianity at the very beginning, does that mean that asians dont have any souls? this may sound weird but think about it.

 

[Contarini]

i wonder, as long god didnt do any actions (an by actions i mean converting) anyone at asia into christianity at the very beginning, does that mean that asians dont have any souls? this may sound weird but think about it.

It doesn’t just sound weird. It makes no sense. God didn’t send Christ in the flesh for *anyone *“at the very beginning.” Why are you assuming that Christ must be revealed to every people at the same time?

By your logic, no one had souls until the first century A.D.

No, the more I think about it the less sense it makes.

Edwin

 

[nils_iver]

…i didnt mean that! im just saying that without any type of crusades at the year 1200 there would be far less christians today and more pagan beliefes, and isnt it our christian duty to save others souls by showing them the truth? something that was nearly impossible without audience back then, ergo force, when gengis khan invaded europe he must have destroyed every church he encountered cause of HES belief so was that invading force forseen by any oracle of some kind or what? by killing another human the killer is doomed, so how can we save entire nations without force?.

all in all: how can we bless people without taking the dificult ones and whats the point in that when it becomes the cost of your very own soul? (note that this is a medieval question)

 

[Contarini]

…i didnt mean that! im just saying that without any type of crusades at the year 1200 there would be far less christians today and more pagan beliefes,

I’m not at all sure of that.

and isnt it our christian duty to save others souls by showing them the truth?

The purpose of the anti-Islamic crusades was not primarily to save the souls of non-Christians, but to defend Christianity against them. The crusades in Eastern Europe fit your pattern better–and they were far more clearly unjustifiable.

something that was nearly impossible without audience back then, ergo force, when gengis khan invaded europe he must have destroyed every church he encountered cause of HES belief

Actually no. The Mongols were ruthless, but they were not religiously intolerant. Nestorian Christians actually played quite an important role in Mongol society, although the warlike Mongols didn’t think a whole lot of the Nestorians, whom they saw as “cringing” and cowardly. Eventually the Mongols who came west converted to Islam, and that was a very bad thing for Christianity!

so how can we save entire nations without force?.

It’s not our job to save people. That is the mentality that leads to religious violence. It is our job to bear witness, and God will use that witness as He pleases.

(note that this is a medieval question)

Medieval people did not think that you should save people by doing evil things. They thought too clearly even to pose such a question. They did things that we now regard as evil, but obviously they did not regard them as evil. And medieval theologians uniformly rejected the idea of converting people by force, although just as in the Islamic world there were all sorts of ways of getting around this.

Edwin

 

[East_Anglican]

Buddhism is an interesting and fast growing religion in the West, particularly in ‘Post-Christian’ countries such as Australia and Europe.

But us European Christians are intent on doing something about it.

 

[nils_iver]

But us European Christians are intent on doing something about it.

really? well thats new, many many many people wish a modern crusade this time (belive me, i know LOTS of them) only to purify europe and let the rest seek us out for further question, why old and “dead” religion is growing so fast is cause of the “new brand” feeling, for an example. you love chocolate, but after weeks with chocolate it start to taste normal/boring, you try strawberry, it taste delicious but is not really sweeter, people love the feeling of change, after all, christianity is over 2000 years old, people just wear crosses to look cool these days, again it works in a way as bissniss and again it is silly and blasphemic.

if it is crusade to save the european church you where thinking about then count me in, france is near death cause of islamic invasion and was the last blessed country (Joan D,arc) that means god favor france, and all the churces sons are suffering losses cause of the great feeling of “change”.

its like this, you play Red alert 2, you like it, the expansion pack arrives, you LOVE it!, and there you go, you wont ever play the game without the “new” stuff you see.

honestly i wish armageddon welcome with a smile before even thinking on the defeat of christianity, gods gift to mankind

 

[East_Anglican]

Important basics about buddhism first:

• Buddhists believe that we have many lives but a soul that will end.

Actually they believe it will become one with the cosmos.

• Life is suffering and the way to get rid of suffering is to get rid of the desire and to eventually achieve ‘nirvana’ which means extinction.

Nirvana is a state of absolute nothingness. Not to be confused with Nevada, which is also a state of absolute nothingness.

• Some buddhists believe in no god, others believe in one God or many.

That is because it is theologically lacking.

• In buddhism, there is no permanence of truth.

So they end up with mad satatements like “Every theing’s a lie and thats a fact.”

• The idea of sin is a stranger to buddhists.

If you look at the concept of Karma and the concept of sin, they are the same. The problem is Budhists do not believe the fact that Christs death and reserection, our sin/karma has been blown away. So they try to eradicate it by their own strengths.

• Buddha is considered a savior, but emphasis is placed solely on an individual’s journey and not a larger community.

I’m not sure if Buddha is regarded as a saviour.

• Buddhists evangelize by example only, tempting others with their peaceful demeanors which appear to be very attractive to people in these difficult times.

But that is not attractive. This meditation lark is funny at times. I like eating meat!

QUOTE=kell0618;2169691]

• Buddhists attempt to deconstruct logic and therefore logic does not exist.

Very post modernist!

Catholics and many other Christians believe in the following and when contrasting the points above with these present below, you will see where there is a great danger for those weak in their faith:

• As Christians, we have one life on earth and one soul. Salvation is perceived as living in God’s presence forever in Heaven.

Amen!

• Christians embrace suffering as seeing that it brings us closer to Christ.

Amen!

Some Christians believe in an earthly utopia but we are to be crucified with Christ to live in his resserection.

• Catholics believe in particular and unchangeable truths.

All Christians do.

• Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

Amen!

Jesus is the way the truth and the life who died for us and riose from the dead and lives forever. Buddha is a dead philosopher who lived, died and stayed dead.

• Our doctrines and beliefs are in the foreground

We have absolutes.

The appearance of peace and tranquility, immersed in the love for nature and beauty, buddhism can be alluring to the lambs of Christ who have become wayward. For those questioning what the secular media presents to us on a daily platter, the idea of peace and tranquility would certainly be well received.

We can love nature because we know it has the same father in the heavens as we do. Nature is not our mother, but our sister.

Brothers and sisters in Christ, we are called to respect the dalai lama, but must keep in the forefront of our minds and hearts that there is a marked difference and to allow ourselves to be seduced by this non-salvific religion would be deadly. Peace is wonderful indeed, however we need to pursue the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ as He asks of us.

Amen Shalom/Pax Christi/ Peace of the lord be with you.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

If you look at the concept of Karma and the concept of sin, they are the same. The problem is Budhists do not believe the fact that Christs death and reserection, our sin/karma has been blown away. So they try to eradicate it by their own strengths.

Well, no, actually, that cannot be conceded.

Karma has much in common with the Christian view of the effects of sin, but not much to do with the character of sin itself… Sin, even when forgiven, has enduring effects; it’s consequences do not simply cease to exist (although some confused folk think forgiveness has something to do with pretending that happens). “Blown away” is a bit strong. If one sins, it still has effects, though God’s grace will be available to deal with the effects. It is its ultimate power over us that has been “blown away”, but of course, by Christ’s actions, not ours.

Karma is a “what goes around cones around” kind of thing, which can be found articulated in a number of schemes, because it can be discerned by observation. But no explaination is offered, because the Buddhist concept of deity is pantheistic, not theistic – a “force”, not a personal entity. But the Christian faith does indeed offer an explanation: We will reap what we sow because “God will not be mocked.” It’s more than just something that “is”.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Sixtus]

Ahimsa wrote:

This present life does not exhaust all of the potential time-spans.

Amen