Buddhism: A Dangerous Wave From the East?

[Sixtus]

rossum wrote:

I see no problem with someone converting from Christianity to Buddhism because I am a Buddhist. Not everyone in this forum is a Christian.

I see no problem with being Christian and believing in the moral precepts of Buddhism, it is after all a very peaceful and loving religion. I am full of admiration for the ‘live and let live’ philosophy.

But I do have issue with someone who was once Christian but rejects Christianity to become Buddhist because that means they by definition have rejected Christ. Christ reminds us that to reject Him is to reject the Father. Jn 15:23

Christ reminds us that He is the resurrection and the life, no one goes to the Father except through Him. To reject Him therefore is to reject eternal life.

To reject Christ is also to reject forgiveness of sins. There can only be one outcome. It is freely chosen.

 

[nils_iver]

rossum wrote:

I see no problem with being Christian and believing in the moral precepts of Buddhism, it is after all a very peaceful and loving religion. I am full of admiration for the ‘live and let live’ philosophy.

But I do have issue with someone who was once Christian but rejects Christianity to become Buddhist because that means they by definition have rejected Christ. Christ reminds us that to reject Him is to reject the Father. Jn 15:23

Christ reminds us that He is the resurrection and the life, no one goes to the Father except through Him. To reject Him therefore is to reject eternal life.

To reject Christ is also to reject forgiveness of sins. There can only be one outcome. It is freely chosen.

ay, repent for sin before its too late!

 

[Greg27]

I think it is important to try and understand another religion properly before making a judgement on it. I think there are some very clear differences between Christianity (in its various forms) and the three main schools of Buddhist religion, which to my knowledge are Mahyana, Theravada, and Tibetan Buddhism. (Zen and Dzo-chen Buddhism are variants of Mahyana).

I think the main difference between Buddhism and Christianity is in the conception of highest reality or the Absolute. In Buddhism, the highest reality is nirvana/nibbana or sunyata (emptiness), which in Mahyana, pretty much are the same thing. Buddhist philosophers have developed a very interesting set of ideas about this reality, which suggests it is very rich in terms of reality but also ineffable in a way no word can capture, and also the highest beauty and bliss obtainable to the human mind. However to my understanding, we must attain to this reality through a long and careful process of meditiation and right moral conduct which alters our state of conciousness so we unite with this reality in such a way there is no distinction between it and the meditator. I know one Theravada Abbot of a monastary here described mystical cognition of this reality as ‘timeless bliss…in which awareness of yourself ends.’ Buddhist mystical and religious literature describes this reality in many beautiful terms, comparing clear cognition of Reality as like a jewell, pure bliss, perfect awareness, infinite peace, perfect wisdom and so on.

However, Buddhism does not to my knowledge in any form acknowledge an Absolute which is like the Triune God of Christianity. While at times some Buddhist descriptions of highest reality compare with what some Christian mystics call the ‘Godhead’, or God’s essence in itself unrelated in terms of God’s creative activities in terms of creation, God is still always a personal reality. Excepting the mystic Meister Eckhart who said you could penetrate into the Godhead which has ‘no distinctions’ and is in ‘still, complete silence’ and into which ‘no distinction has ever peeped, not even the Trinity’) even when God is a total mystery who is completely beyond any name, term, word or concept, he is still the Triune God, living, active, and concious, and who responds to prayer and gives grace to the Christian. Also, even at the highest levels of mystical awareness, there is no loss of self in the Absolute, either in this life or the life to come, and the union of the Christian with God is always an act of grace on God’s part as well as an effort by the Christian meditator. This is because the Christian aims to comform to the God’s image, Christ, whose human nature lifts us up to the Father but not in such a way we merge with his or the Father’s own being or essence. This does not seem to the case in Buddhism, where the Arahant or one who attains enlightenment merges into nirvana so the union is one of complete identity to the extent that Buddha once said after death it makes no sense to ask what happens to the individual after death, in the same sense it made no sense to ask where a flame has gone when a candle is blown out (implying there is nothing personal left in reality once a person unites to nirvana in conciousness and being, after which such terms make no sense anyway).

Both Buddhism and Christianity have a rich theologial and philosophical system which tries to describe how union with God/The Absolute is possible, but in both religions there are very clear differences and in a way, end goals.

 

[Contarini]

However, Buddhism does not to my knowledge in any form acknowledge an Absolute which is like the Triune God of Christianity. While at times some Buddhist descriptions of highest reality compare with what some Christian mystics call the ‘Godhead’, or God’s essence in itself unrelated in terms of God’s creative activities in terms of creation, God is still always a personal reality. Excepting the mystic Meister Eckhart who said you could penetrate into the Godhead which has ‘no distinctions’ and is in ‘still, complete silence’ and into which ‘no distinction has ever peeped, not even the Trinity’) even when God is a total mystery who is completely beyond any name, term, word or concept, he is still the Triune God, living, active, and concious, and who responds to prayer and gives grace to the Christian. Also, even at the highest levels of mystical awareness, there is no loss of self in the Absolute, either in this life or the life to come, and the union of the Christian with God is always an act of grace on God’s part as well as an effort by the Christian meditator. This is because the Christian aims to comform to the God’s image, Christ, whose human nature lifts us up to the Father but not in such a way we merge with his or the Father’s own being or essence. This does not seem to the case in Buddhism, where the Arahant or one who attains enlightenment merges into nirvana so the union is one of complete identity to the extent that Buddha once said after death it makes no sense to ask what happens to the individual after death, in the same sense it made no sense to ask where a flame has gone when a candle is blown out (implying there is nothing personal left in reality once a person unites to nirvana in conciousness and being, after which such terms make no sense anyway).

I basically agree, though this statement ascribed to Buddha is more characteristic of the Theravada tradition, I think. The Mahayana speak of a “Buddha nature” that is in everything, and they seem to believe that Buddha is some kind of timeless, transcendent reality, fairly close to the Christian concept of God–certainly a lot closer than anything in Theravada. However, I’m not sure how far we can take this.

Edwin

 

[jedimasterham]

As a buddhist practitioner myself, and a killer of dogma, I have to say something here. How can anyone ever call Buddhism dangerous wave from the east? I truly hate the idea of, “I’m right, so you’re wrong.” I find many truths in Christian faith, not facts, but stories on which morals can be extracted. I also never have blindly believed Buddhism, but I constantly check up on whether buddhist ideas make sense.

      Buddha taught that our suffering and unhappiness came from not knowing an absolute reality.. As buddhists state, Absolute reality is "nothing itself specific," which I'm sure will confuse many a person. To simplify it, if one thinks of something as solid like an apple, then he does not know absolute truth, since he cannot see that the consecutive layers and factors that make up an apple are in constant transition and change... Our hinderances to happiness are our greed, hatred, and ignorance.

       There's the idea that I am a solid being...By no means is this true, not even in the mind of my being. I am bones, muscle, arteries, blood, nervous system, etc.. My mind is made of factors such as, formulation, feeling, discrimination, composing factors, and consciousness... As one becomes wise about these facts, self awareness and the triviality of ego kicks in. Eventually, the problems that a self has, begin to vanish, because one realizes there's no self to attribute problems to.. A buddhist will say there is a self, and there is no self... There's an appearing self, based on all the factors, and there's no real self...

      As a buddhist, in the Mahayana, you work to benefit the beings around you, to help them find some happiness. Most people look on buddhist paintings, practices, and philosophy, and assume this is this, that is that. When it comes down to it, it's all in the mind anyhow, so be happy, be open, and embrace others.

 

[nils_iver]

As a buddhist practitioner myself, and a killer of dogma, I have to say something here. How can anyone ever call Buddhism dangerous wave from the east? I truly hate the idea of, “I’m right, so you’re wrong.” I find many truths in Christian faith, not facts, but stories on which morals can be extracted. I also never have blindly believed Buddhism, but I constantly check up on whether buddhist ideas make sense.

      Buddha taught that our suffering and unhappiness came from not knowing an absolute reality.. As buddhists state, Absolute reality is "nothing itself specific," which I'm sure will confuse many a person. To simplify it, if one thinks of something as solid like an apple, then he does not know absolute truth, since he cannot see that the consecutive layers and factors that make up an apple are in constant transition and change... Our hinderances to happiness are our greed, hatred, and ignorance.

       There's the idea that I am a solid being...By no means is this true, not even in the mind of my being. I am bones, muscle, arteries, blood, nervous system, etc.. My mind is made of factors such as, formulation, feeling, discrimination, composing factors, and consciousness... As one becomes wise about these facts, self awareness and the triviality of ego kicks in. Eventually, the problems that a self has, begin to vanish, because one realizes there's no self to attribute problems to.. A buddhist will say there is a self, and there is no self... There's an appearing self, based on all the factors, and there's no real self...

      As a buddhist, in the Mahayana, you work to benefit the beings around you, to help them find some happiness. Most people look on buddhist paintings, practices, and philosophy, and assume this is this, that is that. When it comes down to it, it's all in the mind anyhow, so be happy, be open, and embrace others.

isnt it obvios?, dangerous cause of our loss in christianity ranks.

 

[jedimasterham]

It is so strange, this dependence to a religion! Buddhist teaching are not threatening, considering their main focus completely is love, compassion, and wisdom. The logical answer might be that Christian faith might not have enough to offer… Buddhism is not on the rise to convert people, far from it in fact. People are attracted to it from every faith and philosophy because it is a medium, non judgemental philosophy, and is open to questioning and checking up… Wisdom in buddha’s sense, is awareness of self and surrounding. Doesn’t that sound decent??

 

[Bennie_P]

It is so strange, this dependence to a religion! Buddhist teaching are not threatening, considering their main focus completely is love, compassion, and wisdom. The logical answer might be that Christian faith might not have enough to offer… Buddhism is not on the rise to convert people, far from it in fact. People are attracted to it from every faith and philosophy because it is a medium, non judgemental philosophy, and is open to questioning and checking up… Wisdom in buddha’s sense, is awareness of self and surrounding. Doesn’t that sound decent??

What is wrong with religion? Buddhism is a religion and to me it seems to be a religion of self?

Attraction to Buddhism in it’s westernized forms, is for those that want to choose thier own truth, so there is no wrong, so anything is allowed, for there is no judgement, for each may follow thier own path and that is OK. :twocents:

It gives no grounding for truth. It offers nothing.

 

[jedimasterham]

What is wrong with religion? Buddhism is a religion and to me it seems to be a religion of self?

Attraction to Buddhism in it’s westernized forms, is for those that want to choose thier own truth, so there is no wrong, so anything is allowed, for there is no judgement, for each may follow thier own path and that is OK. :twocents:

It gives no grounding for truth. It offers nothing.

Buddhist teachings have a huge grounding, considering their basis in logic. In the Mahayana the grounding is called the Lam-Rim, the general Path to Enlightenment. Basically, it contains reasoning and logic behind beginninglessness, karma, fortunate human life, impermanence and death, suffering, and happiness, wheel of life, equanimity, 6 perfections, emptiness, what buddhist refuge means, etc… This takes a couple months to read through all of these, and many years to actually realize their meaning and utilize its essence in your daily actions.
If you know anything about westernized forms of buddhist practice, you'd know that anything is allowed, but that constraint and vows are an important part of it. It offers plenty, it just depends on how much effort and patience you're willing to put into it.

 

[rossum]

What is wrong with religion? Buddhism is a religion and to me it seems to be a religion of self?

Buddhism is the religion of no-self:[The Buddha said] "If a Bodhisattva announces: I will liberate all living creatures, he is not rightly called a Bodhisattva. Why? Because, Subhuti, there is really no such condition as that called Bodhisattvaship, because Buddha teaches that all things are devoid of selfhood, devoid of separate individuality. … Bodhisattvas who are wholly devoid of any conception of separate selfhood are truthfully called Bodhisattvas.

Diamond sutra, ch 17

so there is no wrong, so anything is allowed,

Incorrect:Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

Dhammapada 1:1-2

for there is no judgement,

All actions have their results:Neither in the sky nor in mid-ocean,
nor in a cave in the mountains,
is there a place where a man
can escape his evil deed.

Dhammapada 9:12

It offers nothing.

Correct. What else is there to offer? “Nada, nada, nada, y en el monte nada”.

rossum

 

[Bennie_P]

Quote:

It offers nothing.

Correct. What else is there to offer? “Nada, nada, nada, y en el monte nada”.

rossum

Communion with God :getholy:

Behold, I stand at the gate and knock. If any man shall hear my voice and open to me the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him: and he with me. Rev.3:20 :heaven:

 

[Ahimsa]

Behold, I stand at the gate and knock. If any man shall hear my voice and open to me the door, I will come in to him and will sup with him: and he with me. Rev.3:20 :heaven:

Blinded this world —
how few here see clearly!
Just as birds who’ve escaped
from a net are
few, few
are the people
who make it to heaven.

– Dhammapada 174

 

[jedimasterham]

Buddhism is the religion of no-self:[The Buddha said] "If a Bodhisattva announces: I will liberate all living creatures, he is not rightly called a Bodhisattva. Why? Because, Subhuti, there is really no such condition as that called Bodhisattvaship, because Buddha teaches that all things are devoid of selfhood, devoid of separate individuality. … Bodhisattvas who are wholly devoid of any conception of separate selfhood are truthfully called Bodhisattvas.

Diamond sutra, ch 17

Incorrect:Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

Dhammapada 1:1-2

All actions have their results:Neither in the sky nor in mid-ocean,
nor in a cave in the mountains,
is there a place where a man
can escape his evil deed.

Dhammapada 9:12

Correct. What else is there to offer? “Nada, nada, nada, y en el monte nada”.

rossum

I’m suprised by the lack of intelligence displayed by some people… All of this is so profound, and you reject it because you don’t like it? how absurd is that. How many times have you actually read the diamond sutra? You need to have a willing mind to learn from it, and have patience in your mind, because what benefit you get from the sutra comes from what your mind makes of it. Don’t think you know it all from one glance… I’m so tired of dogmatic selfish christian people criticizing such a wonderful philosophy of love and compassion, without even having the slightest understanding of what they write about…

 

[Sixtus]

edimasterham wrote:
As a buddhist practitioner myself, and a killer of dogma, I have to say something here. How can anyone ever call Buddhism dangerous wave from the east? I truly hate the idea of, "I’m right, so you’re wrong.

My friend, I am not saying that I am right and you are wrong.

Who am I to say that? All I can say is that there are beautiful aspects to all religions. But our’s in additon has Christ

 

[Bennie_P]

I’m suprised by the lack of intelligence displayed by some people… All of this is so profound, and you reject it because you don’t like it? how absurd is that. How many times have you actually read the diamond sutra? You need to have a willing mind to learn from it, and have patience in your mind, because what benefit you get from the sutra comes from what your mind makes of it. Don’t think you know it all from one glance… I’m so tired of dogmatic selfish christian people criticizing such a wonderful philosophy of love and compassion, without even having the slightest understanding of what they write about…

If you are chastizing the one you quoted, then you are chastizing a Buddhist.

Myself, I reject it for I believe it to be false. :knight2:
But the God I worship gives us all a free will to accept Him and His Love or reject Him and His Love. What is selfish about that? I could waste my time re-reading all the philosophies of the worlds and debate you until the second coming, but only when He turns your heart, then will you see clearly. So I will not waste my time, I did enough of that in my youth. Spend all the time you need to study the diamond sutra, it is your choice. PAX

For it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise: and the prudence of the prudent I will reject. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For, seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world, by wisdom, knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of our preaching, to save them that believe. 1Co 1:19 - 21 :bible1: :knight1:

 

[Contarini]

I’m suprised by the lack of intelligence displayed by some people… All of this is so profound, and you reject it because you don’t like it? how absurd is that. How many times have you actually read the diamond sutra? You need to have a willing mind to learn from it, and have patience in your mind, because what benefit you get from the sutra comes from what your mind makes of it. Don’t think you know it all from one glance… I’m so tired of dogmatic selfish christian people criticizing such a wonderful philosophy of love and compassion, without even having the slightest understanding of what they write about…

Well, as someone who is quite appreciative of Buddhism, I don’t think you are in much of a position to make this criticism, given your extremely superficial understanding of Christianity as evidenced by your posts on the “three reasons” thread. You clearly do not practice what you preach.

Edwin

 

[jedimasterham]

I can say that I know christianity well, considering the fact that I spent 11 years in Catholic private schools. I’m thankful that I got a good education from it in intellect and in morals. Since i’ve read the bible twice, and got an A in religion class, I do have a a very good understanding of christian faith.

  I want these people on here to know that they can think for themselves; if you want to question the existence of god, then do it, but don't repress it. By all means, doubt your religion and faith constantly, if a priest tells you to trust in god, ask why you should and how it makes sense. Find out the truth for yourself before letting others tell you what they think it is. 

 As a Buddhist, I constantly am analyzing the validity of what I'm learning, through debate, logic, and experience. To learn and be wise about anything, you need to be equally balanced in an open mind and skepticism. The selfishness of one's character is what makes a closed dogmatic mind, saying "this is what I believe, so I reject yours." It's silly, stupid and ignorant to do this.

 I'm with Sixtus who said, "there are beautiful aspects to all religions;" I agree there's beautiful sides to all things, subjective and objective, but coming out and saying that buddhism, a peaceful religion, is dangerous and threatens your beliefs is stupid.. It's never done anything like that.

 

[Bennie_P]

I can say that I know christianity well, considering the fact that I spent 11 years in Catholic private schools. I’m thankful that I got a good education from it in intellect and in morals. Since i’ve read the bible twice, and got an A in religion class, I do have a a very good understanding of christian faith.

I want these people on here to know that they can think for themselves; if you want to question the existence of god, then do it, but don’t repress it. By all means, doubt your religion and faith constantly, if a priest tells you to trust in god, ask why you should and how it makes sense. Find out the truth for yourself before letting others tell you what they think it is.

As a Buddhist, I constantly am analyzing the validity of what I’m learning, through debate, logic, and experience. To learn and be wise about anything, you need to be equally balanced in an open mind and skepticism. The selfishness of one’s character is what makes a closed dogmatic mind, saying “this is what I believe, so I reject yours.” It’s silly, stupid and ignorant to do this.

I’m with Sixtus who said, “there are beautiful aspects to all religions;” I agree there’s beautiful sides to all things, subjective and objective, but coming out and saying that buddhism, a peaceful religion, is dangerous and threatens your beliefs is stupid… It’s never done anything like that.

Write this down in your journal and date it. “You’ll be back” Come Home Soon. PAX

 

[jedimasterham]

Write this down in your journal and date it. “You’ll be back” Come Home Soon. PAX

I don’t get it… Come home soon?

 

[nils_iver]

Blinded this world —
how few here see clearly!
Just as birds who’ve escaped
from a net are
few, few
are the people
who make it to heaven.

– Dhammapada 174

Don’t associate with lowly qualities.
Don’t consort with heedlessness.
Don’t associate with wrong views.
Don’t busy yourself with the world.