Buddhism Dialogue at our church

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Thanks for the reply. I just read a book from an Abbot in Alaska (St. Herman Brotherhood) who agrees about the temporal and non-temporal aspects of our souls. Part of us is, apparently, non-temporal. And Thomas Merton (New Seeds of Contemplation) says that our highest state of being is to contemplate God and therefore echo back to him: kind of like the universe looking at itself that you mentioned.

It sounds like you are much better read than I am, and I’m glad that you are able to make connections like these and share them with us.

Thanks
Gary

 

[Servant19]

Would you say that 1076 is early enough for you?

Of the above Pope John Paul II said in 1990:

How about two centuries later…

And another two centuries after that…

How about we go to the 1930s now:

And finally, here is the 1980s:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1985/august/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19850819_giovani-stadio-casablanca_en.html

Beautiful!!

You are my Guardian Angel Vouthon

Every time I wish for answers to my questions, God sends me you

.

 

[Servant19]

.

My next question is, how can we, collectively, share this knowledge with all Catholics to ensure no one slips “outside” of these all embracing, all-loving Teachings of the Catholic Church?

.

 

[Sochi]

Good Morning Vouthon: The way I have been thinking about this for some time now is like this: I think that Christians are running on an Abrahamic Operating System and …“interesting stuff”…]I think it’s an interesting idea.

Thank you,
Gary

This makes sense to me, Gary, save I’d go another step as well: the referent for “God,” one of the most abused and diluted of all words, which is unknowingly worshiped, is the 0 point energy appearing as the instruments, their users, and the power to them at every level.

 

[Sochi]

.

My next question is, how can we, collectively, share this knowledge with all Catholics to ensure no one slips “outside” of these all embracing, all-loving Teachings of the Catholic Church?

.

Be yourself and talk when appropriate? I am not in favor of any sort of missionaryism.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

.

My next question is, how can we, collectively, share this knowledge with all Catholics to ensure no one slips “outside” of these all embracing, all-loving Teachings of the Catholic Church?

.

Good Afternoon Servant19: I don’t know. You can tell people things all you want, but how people come to know things seems to involve some other process than being told. Or maybe it’s the other way 'round you know. If you’ve been told something for long enough and repeatedly, maybe it’s pointless to be shown something else. This issue isn’t a Catholic thing or Protestant thing, or at least I don’t think so. I am puzzled how it came to be that Christianity has for song long focused it’s energy and thought on the idea of humanity being ugly and sinful, deserving of punishment and so on, and spend so little time on some of the more profound and enlightening things Christ had to say about the nature of humanity and God and the world around us. It’s all there, yet the focus has persistently and tenaciously been more on the most bestial aspects of this whole story.

Therefore, I’m not trying to change anyone. People just get offended. I’m simply sharing my experiences and my thoughts, and people are in turn free to tell me otherwise or discuss it if they like.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[Sochi]

Good Afternoon Servant19: I don’t know. You can tell people things all you want, but how people come to know things seems to involve some other process than being told. Or maybe it’s the other way 'round you know. If you’ve been told something for long enough and repeatedly, maybe it’s pointless to be shown something else. This issue isn’t a Catholic thing or Protestant thing, or at least I don’t think so. I am puzzled how it came to be that Christianity has for song long focused it’s energy and thought on the idea of humanity being ugly and sinful, deserving of punishment and so on, and spend so little time on some of the more profound and enlightening things Christ had to say about the nature of humanity and God and the world around us. It’s all there, yet the focus has persistently and tenaciously been more on the most bestial aspects of this whole story.

Therefore, I’m not trying to change anyone. People just get offended. I’m simply sharing my experiences and my thoughts, and people are in turn free to tell me otherwise or discuss it if they like.

Thanks,
Gary

My guess is that it came with the political ascendancy of the Church and therefore the emergence of the attitudes of those who rule, unmitigated by any actual charity, only lip service to it. Such is the way of rule, until we, as a Race, grow up beyond our 2>12 year old emotional stature and the egoism that is wrapped in. I mean it is fine as a stage of growing up, even very necessary. But as a way of governing what we now know and are starting to feel as a global, interdependent phenomenon.

But we tend to pass on our attitudes as received, because so very few do work to do the hokey pokey. Oh, I mean turn themselves around by some deep introspection, recognition, and work. And in this regard, as long as religion is bent on rubbing noses in the evils we are prone to, it will never be the light through this difficult passage to a greater human maturity, despite great potential to do so. It is kind of like the class monitor needing to control bullies instead of educating the best in the class into their potential, and elevating the bullies along with them.

But it can’t be about telling people things. That is almost certain rejection. It is why we sometimes call the Christ our “exemplar,” if we get to emulating virtue of the highest order rather then wagging fingers, even at ourselves, often in ignorance of the simplicity of a permanent fix. Perhaps it is why, instead of enumerating possible transgressions, the Buddhists simply enjoin to “do no harm.” What if, indeed, we do have something to learn from them?

 

[Servant19]

Good Afternoon Servant19: I don’t know. You can tell people things all you want, but how people come to know things seems to involve some other process than being told. Or maybe it’s the other way 'round you know. If you’ve been told something for long enough and repeatedly, maybe it’s pointless to be shown something else. This issue isn’t a Catholic thing or Protestant thing, or at least I don’t think so. I am puzzled how it came to be that Christianity has for song long focused it’s energy and thought on the idea of humanity being ugly and sinful, deserving of punishment and so on, and spend so little time on some of the more profound and enlightening things Christ had to say about the nature of humanity and God and the world around us. It’s all there, yet the focus has persistently and tenaciously been more on the most bestial aspects of this whole story.

Therefore, I’m not trying to change anyone. People just get offended. I’m simply sharing my experiences and my thoughts, and people are in turn free to tell me otherwise or discuss it if they like.

Thanks,
Gary

Dear Gary, thank you for your insightful thoughts.

If I may humbly offer a perspective to consider.

I agree with you that it may not be our place to “tell” everyone that such and such is a fundamental aspect of Church teaching, ESPECIALLY adults.

A possible reason for this may be that with adults the mindset and thought patterns are pretty locked it. No matter how much you tell an adult Catholic who believes otherwise, you cannot convince them that Muslims worship the same God. This is attested on several threads in CAF. The stone is set, the trees roots are firm…

However…

…raise children with this mindset, the knowledge that Catholic teaching has the fullness of Truth, but other religions may also have a fullness of Truth too, that Catholics worship the one God, but so do Muslims, Jews, Baha’is etc etc, then you have a chance of some hope for humanity and some hope for the life of the ecumenical Teachings of Catholicism.

I wonder if the focus of Catholic schools might be slightly modified to account for these Teachings? I recently visited a Catholic high school for my son who is about to enter high school next year. We were given a tour of the library and I did not see one book related to any other religions.

What influence, subconsciously, or consciously, does this have on Catholic children? What influence does the enrolment process of Catholic schools have on Catholic children?

I really wish to collaborate with Catholic Churches in my area in this opportunity to raise children LIVING and BREATHING this tremendously important aspect of Catholic Teaching, but I have no idea how to go about it.

I truly believe that the Bahai Faith’s learnings on children’s ecumenical education can be of assistance to Catholic education of children, and I pray that a collaborative opportunity is forged, so the adults of tomorrow are closer aligned to Catholic teaching (and Bahai teaching on this matter) than some of the adults of today.

Thank you for your kind consideration

.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Servant19; possible reason for this may be that with adults the mindset and thought patterns are pretty locked it. No matter how much you tell an adult Catholic who believes otherwise, you cannot convince them that Muslims worship the same God. This is attested on several threads in CAF. The stone is set, the trees roots are firm…

Good Morning Servant19: I think what you are saying is very true.

However…

…raise children with this mindset, the knowledge that Catholic teaching has the fullness of Truth, but other religions may also have a fullness of Truth too, that Catholics worship the one God, but so do Muslims, Jews, Baha’is etc etc, then you have a chance of some hope for humanity and some hope for the life of the ecumenical Teachings of Catholicism.

The CC won’t teach children something that the CC doesn’t believe. No church would do that. Vatican press releases and official church statements on such matters that carefully show some acknowledgement of other religions are political and business positions offered by an organization that practically invented western politics and business, and also happens to be a sovereign state. What Catholicism actually believes about other religions can more accurately be demonstrated in truth by the reception you have gotten so far on such matters on this forum. And I am not saying this is wrong or passing judgment on it. I’m just saying how I think it is.

I wonder if the focus of Catholic schools might be slightly modified to account for these Teachings?

I think it would for the most part be looked upon as exposing the future of the Church to a dangerous infection.

I recently visited a Catholic high school for my son who is about to enter high school next year. We were given a tour of the library and I did not see one book related to any other religions.

That experience will vary from parish to parish, but what you saw is probably relatively standard with some outliers to be found here and there.

What influence, subconsciously, or consciously, does this have on Catholic children? What influence does the enrolment process of Catholic schools have on Catholic children?

It has the desired and intended influence.

I really wish to collaborate with Catholic Churches in my area in this opportunity to raise children LIVING and BREATHING this tremendously important aspect of Catholic Teaching, but I have no idea how to go about it.

There is very rigid hierarchy that you would have to deal with. Practically no one has the authority to even discuss it with you, much less approve it. And I don’t think many would be all that interested, and if you did find someone with the authority, they would probably defer to someone else rather than being responsible for making such a decision. It’s like any large organization in that regard. I love talking to you and people of all faiths, but I’m a bit out of the ordinary in a lot of ways, not only as a Catholic. I kind of like it though.

I truly believe that the Bahai Faith’s learnings on children’s ecumenical education can be of assistance to Catholic education of children, and I pray that a collaborative opportunity is forged, so the adults of tomorrow are closer aligned to Catholic teaching (and Bahai teaching on this matter) than some of the adults of today.

There are some, if not many religions that would be very uneasy with letting other religions or spiritual ideas near the minds they are working to develop in a particular way.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[Servant19]

I hear you very clearly Gary

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts so honestly. It really is a complex situation I feel. There is CLEARLY a need within society for acknowledgement and genuine reverence for other global Faiths. I will pray for constant progress and advancement in this regard.

.

 

[Sochi]

Yep, I’m definitely with Gary on this one. Your compassionate stance, Servant, is not compatible with the exclusivity factor of groups as such, never mind the Church. If there is a resolution to this, it is not within any group ideology of any sort. It can only be, as far as I can tell, in the maturation of individuals away from ego verification toward identifying as something more impersonal and Universal. For what it’s worth.

 

[Vouthon]

Vatican press releases and official church statements on such matters that carefully show some acknowledgement of other religions are political and business positions offered by an organization that practically invented western politics and business, and also happens to be a sovereign state.

I fundamentally disagree with you Gary and I think that, perhaps by accident, you are slighting the Church.

The Church, especially since Vatican II, has developed a thoroughly inclusive understanding of soteriology in relation to other faiths, that has an explicitly theological foundation and is not “political and business positions”.

The church does not have a “public relations” agenda that is substantially different from its actual doctrines. If it did, then it would be failing in its mission to preach the truth.

Many Catholics are not thoroughly accounted with the minutiae of church teachings, nor should one expect them to be, especially in such an opaque field of study as the salvation of non-believers and the “seeds of the word” doctrine of the Fathers which sees truth in other faiths implanted by the Holy Spirit.

St. Pope John Paul II explained that this approach to other religions is based upon sacred tradition, the church fathers and the very origins of the Christian revelation:

"…You speak of many religions. Instead I will attempt to show the common fundamental element and the common root of these religions.

The Council defined the relationship of the Church to non-Christian religions in a specific document that begins with the words “Nostra aetate” (“In our time”). It is a concise and yet very rich document that authentically hands on the Tradition, faithful to the thought of the earliest Fathers of the Church.

From the beginning, Christian Revelation has viewed the spiritual history of man as including, in some way, all religions, thereby demonstrating the unity of humankind with regard to the eternal and ultimate destiny of man. The Council document speaks of this unity and links it with the current trend to bring humanity closer together through the resources available to our civilization. The Church sees the promotion of this unity as one of its duties: “There is only one community and it consists of all peoples. They have only one origin, since God inhabited the entire earth with the whole human race. And they have one ultimate destiny, God, whose providence, goodness, and plan for salvation extend to all. . . . Men turn to various religions to solve mysteries of the human condition, which today, as in earlier times, burden people’s hearts: the nature of man; the meaning and purpose of life; good and evil; the origin and purpose of suffering; the way to true happiness; death…and finally, the ultimate ineffable mystery which is the origin and destiny of our existence. From ancient times up to today all the various peoples have shared and continue to share an awareness of that enigmatic power that is present throughout the course of things and throughout the events of human life, and, in which, at times, even the Supreme Divinity or the Father is recognizable. This awareness and recognition imbue life with an intimate religious sense. Religions that are tied up with cultural progress strive to solve these issues with more refined concepts and a more precise language” (Nostra Aetate 1-2).

…

The words of the Council recall the conviction, long rooted in the Tradition, of the existence of the so-called semina Verbi (seeds of the Word), present in all religions. In the light of this conviction, the Church seeks to identify the semina Verbi present in the great traditions of the Far East, in order to trace a common path against the backdrop of the needs of the contemporary world. We can affirm that here the position of the Council is inspired by a truly universal concern…

In another passage the Council says that the Holy Spirit works effectively even outside the visible structure of the Church (cf. Lumen Gentium 13), making use of these very semina Verbi, that constitute a kind of common soteriological root present in all religions.

I have been convinced of this on numerous occasions, both while visiting the countries of the Far East and while meeting representatives of those religions, especially during the historic meeting at Assisi, where we found ourselves gathered together praying for peace.

Thus, instead of marveling at the fact that Providence allows such a great variety of religions, we should be amazed at the number of common elements found within them.…”

***- Pope Saint John Paul II (1994), Crossing the Threshold of Hope ***

This is not a statement of PR bluff. He expressing a theological statement. If he is teaching error here then he is failing as a pontiff. Lumen Gentium is a dogmatic constitution and it explains that the Holy Spirit operates outside the church among non-believers. This is the document which states that Muslims worship the same God as Catholics. A dogmatic constitution of the Magisterium and not some paper produced by the Vatican City State.

Note this section:

The Council defined the relationship of the Church to non-Christian religions in a specific document that begins with the words “Nostra aetate” (“In our time”). It is a concise and yet very rich document that authentically hands on the Tradition, faithful to the thought of the earliest Fathers of the Church.

From the beginning, Christian Revelation has viewed the spiritual history of man as including, in some way, all religions

It utterly contradicts what you have said above.

I actually would say that brother Servant is perceiving something that you are not.

 

[Vouthon]

Yep, I’m definitely with Gary on this one. Your compassionate stance, Servant, is not compatible with the exclusivity factor of groups as such, never mind the Church. If there is a resolution to this, it is not within any group ideology of any sort. It can only be, as far as I can tell, in the maturation of individuals away from ego verification toward identifying as something more impersonal and Universal. For what it’s worth.

The church is the Mystical Body of Christ. It is not a “group ideology” but the transmitter of the untainted Word of God both in its written and unwritten forms, received from the Apostles and preserved through the succession.

You are applying secular, political terminology to the church which is in truth a divine institution.

The “maturation of individuals away from ego verification” takes place for a Catholic within the church through its sacraments. We do not grow as Christians apart from the life of the Church. That is an individualistic view of salvation that I find rather strange from a baptized Catholic. The church is the constitutive basis of our identity. We are embedded in its life and teachings. It is not a “hindrance” that we have to overcome, rather it is an opportunity that we must embrace.

The Second Vatican council in its dogmatic constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium, noted:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

At all times and in every race God has given welcome to whosoever fears Him and does what is right.(85) God, however, does not make men holy and save them merely as individuals, without bond or link between one another. Rather has it pleased Him to bring men together as one people, a people which acknowledges Him in truth and serves Him in holiness…All men are called to belong to the new people of God. Wherefore this people, while remaining one and only one, is to be spread throughout the whole world and must exist in all ages, so that the decree of God’s will may be fulfilled. In the beginning God made human nature one and decreed that all His children, scattered as they were, would finally be gathered together as one…It follows that though there are many nations there is but one people of God, which takes its citizens from every race, making them citizens of a kingdom which is of a heavenly rather than of an earthly nature. All the faithful, scattered though they be throughout the world, are in communion with each other in the Holy Spirit, and so, he who dwells in Rome knows that the people of India are his members…All men are called to be part of this catholic unity of the people of God which in promoting universal peace presages it. And there belong to or are related to it in various ways, the Catholic faithful, all who believe in Christ, and indeed the whole of mankind, for all men are called by the grace of God to salvation…In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved…

This is as I have said before A DOGMATIC constitution. It is the most authoritative document produced by the Second Vatican Council and it was addressed not to non-Christians but to baptized Catholics as a means of shedding light on the “Church”. This means that the teachings presented above, which are the basis of the church’s approach to other religions, are inherent to the church itself, not something exterior to it.

As for “impersonal”, I have no idea what you mean. God is not impersonal. He is unknowable in essence to our limited intellects, yes, but he is supremely personal indeed for us He is Three Persons!

“Universal” is what the word “Catholic” translates to in English.

 

[Sochi]

The church is the Mystical Body of Christ. It is not a “group ideology” but the Word of God transmitted from the Apostles and preserved through the succession.

You are applying secular, political terminology to the church which is in truth a divine institution.

Since you choose to believe that, it is your truth. I certainly respect that. It is somewhat, or not at all so for more of mankiind than it is.

The “maturation of individuals away from ego verification” takes place for a Catholic within the church through its sacraments. We do not grow as Christians apart from the life of the Church. That is an individualistic view of salvation that I find rather strange from a baptized Catholic. The church is the constitutive basis of our identity. We are embedded in its life and teachings. It is not a “hindrance” that we have to overcome, rather it is an opportunity that we must embrace.

Again, Vouthon, it would be very useful if you spoke for yourself, and not as if what you hold is true for everyone. This is why it is called a “faith.” And if you look closely, you might find that your idea of the Church is embedded in you, not you in it. How could it be otherwise?

This is as I have said before A DOGMATIC constitution. It is the most authoritative document produced by the Second Vatican Council and it was addressed not to non-Christians but to baptized Catholics as a means of shedding light on the “Church”. This means that the teachings presented above, which are the basis of the church’s approach to other religions, are inherent to the church itself, not something exterior to it.

Yes, excactly my point. Thank you.

As for “impersonal”, I have no idea what you mean.

“Universal” is what the word “Catholic” translates to in English.

Well yes. “impersonal” is pretty much synonymous with Universal, and therefor Catholic, but obviously not int the religious sense. Mys sense is that if you hadn’t found a need to question the meaning of “impersonal,” neither would you be questioning Mr. Sheldrake or myself, or at least not as adamantly.

What I see as a pattern in your comments is that while you are clearly very learned, admirably so, in the lore of the Church, you may not have as good a handle on how the mind works in general. And of course, none of what I’ve said is intended to sway you, (as is I could) I have only offered it as my take. I have no expectation that you would agree with me, as you have no reason to.

 

[Vouthon]

Since you choose to believe that, it is your truth. I certainly respect that. It is somewhat, or not at all so for more of mankiind than it is.

I am not addressing it though to mankind my friend but to a fellow Catholic We reach out “through” our faith is what I am saying, not “without” it as individuals. Interfaith dialogue is not just conducted by individuals but by individuals as ambassadors of their faiths. In our case it is the Church which is why I say what I say. The Church and orthodoxy are not a barriers that we have to move beyond if we hope to embrace ways of life and teachings different from our own. Rather they provide the means for us to do so.

Communities interact and meet in common, not simply individuals.

Again, Vouthon, it would be very useful if you spoke for yourself, and not as if what you hold is true for everyone. This is why it is called a “faith.” And if you look closely, you might find that your idea of the Church is embedded in you, not you in it. How could it be otherwise?

I don’t hold it true for everyone. I hold it true only for practising Catholics. Each one’s faith is their own personal way, and as the old age goes there are as many paths to God as there are breaths in a man, however for Catholics our own “paths” are embedded within the teaching of the church and oriented towards our salvation in Christ. Not outside it. We reach out to others through this framework. If we do not, then organised religion has no meaning. Blessed Mother Teresa exhibited this attitude. She said:

**Blessed Mother Teresa: **

"Religion is not something that you and I can dictate. Religion is the worship of God, and therefore it is a matter of conscience. Each one of us must decide how we are going to worship. In my case, the religion that I live and practice is Roman Catholicism. It is my life, my joy, and the greatest proof of God’s love for me. I cannot force anyone to accept my religion—just as no man, no law, and no government can legally demand that anyone reject a religion that promises them peace, joy, and love. I love all religions…There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers. In our work we bear witness to the love of God’s presence and if Catholics, Protestants, Buddhists or agnostics become for this reason better men—simply better—we will be satisfied

Some call Him Ishwar, some call Him Allah, some simply God, but we have to acknowledge that it is He who made us for greater things: to love and be loved. What matters is that we love. We cannot love without prayer, and so whatever religion we are, we must pray together."

“There are so many religions and each one has its different ways of following God. I follow Christ:
Jesus is my God,
Jesus is my Spouse,
Jesus is my Life,
Jesus is my only Love,
Jesus is my All in All;
Jesus is my Everything.”

Yes, excactly my point. Thank you.

Yet it is not what Gary said above. He argued that the interfaith initiatives were PR and “business”. I would hope that you do not agree with him in this respect? Catholic theology does not support his contention.

Well yes. “impersonal” is pretty much synonymous with Universal, and therefor Catholic, but obviously not int the religious sense. Mys sense is that if you hadn’t found a need to question the meaning of “impersonal,” neither would you be questioning Mr. Sheldrake or myself, or at least not as adamantly.

Not really. It is Gary’s argument that the church has a PR and business agenda in interfaith dialogue that does not actually conform to its doctrine that has made me feel “adamant”, in addition to the “group” ideology aspect of your post.

What I see as a pattern in your comments is that while you are clearly very learned, admirably so, in the lore of the Church, you may not have as good a handle on how the mind works in general. And of course, none of what I’ve said is intended to sway you, (as is I could) I have only offered it as my take. I have no expectation that you would agree with me, as you have no reason to.

Perhaps, although I would say that I am actually in agreement with Servant that there is a “disconnect” between perceptions on the ground and official teaching.

Gary is suggesting that Catholics on here who disagree that Muslims worship the same God as us are in accordance with Catholic doctrine, which is for him seemingly “exclusivist” and thus a problem. My understanding is the reverse.

 

[seakelp]

I think that’s fantastic!

We should have more interfaith dialogue. Just because we disagree with each other doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk with one another.

 

[Vouthon]

If I may conclude: Should we not be aiming to make Muslims better Muslims, Jews better Jews, Baha’is better Baha’is, Catholics better Catholics?

Christianity, Islam, Judaism and the Baha’i Faith are not “barriers” that we need to transcend. Rather by becoming more committed and truer to our own faiths we reach out and embrace each other in a deeper unity from within rather than from without our own faith communities.

In my understanding we shouldn’t be looking beyond organised religion to some fuzzy, transcendental source of unity. The “unity” is inherent in the world religions, they are its vehicle.

That’s just my :twocents:

 

[Servant19]

If I may conclude: Should we not be aiming to make Muslims better Muslims, Jews better Jews, Baha’is better Baha’is, Catholics better Catholics?

Christianity, Islam, Judaism and the Baha’i Faith are not “barriers” that we need to transcend. Rather by becoming more committed and truer to our own faiths we reach out and embrace each other in a deeper unity from within rather than from without our own faith communities.

In my understanding we shouldn’t be looking beyond organised religion to some fuzzy, transcendental source of unity. The “unity” is inherent in the world religions, they are its vehicle.

That’s just my :twocents:

This gets a Hail Mary, Allah-u-Akbar, and a Ya Baha’ul-Abha!



Can anyone divulge how the Catholic Church makes Catholics better Catholics please? This is the crux of my hope for all Faiths. Am happy to share what Baha’is do if anyone is interested

.

 

[MartinJordan]

If I may conclude: Should we not be aiming to make Muslims better Muslims, Jews better Jews, Baha’is better Baha’is, Catholics better Catholics?

How do you tell a Catholic to be a better Catholic if one is a Muslim? Don’t pray to saints, or go ahead and pray to saints, there is nothing wrong with it, as long as you love God?

Vouthon can you clarify?

MJ

 

[John_23_admirer]

Only God sees the big picture! I just wanted to add this for consideration as I was raised without religion but have always sought after truth, this led to following Buddhism for many years, this then led me to Thomas Merton and Carmelite spirituality, conversion to a greater truth (i.e) Christianity and now consideration of becoming Catholic. The way I see it, my journey on the path towards truth has not been one of thinking I have discovered it and then changing my mind, but an expansion of understanding of life (there is nothing wrong in buddhism where its teachings are the same as that of the church). So I say only God sees the big picture, the rest of us see only in part. You have no obligation to listen to the Buddhist, but it would be valuable for a dialogue to continue in the vein in which the magisterium has pursued it, for in their wisdom they have opened a door into the church for persons of a Buddhist cultural background. We should never shy away from dialogue with other views, this can only lead to making the church stronger, for truth shall prevail and where sin abounds, grace shall abound all the more. God works in mysterious ways.