Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity fitting together?

[dharmasister]

Of course Pope John Paul II did not place the religious beliefs of Buddhism on an equal footing with those of Catholicism. But he could still appreciate the moral principles and truths that Buddhism offers. And in that respect Buddhism and the other great religions of the world do not significantly differ from Christianity. If one is well grounded in the teachings of one’s own faith, one can still adhere to them and, at the same time, learn about and value the shared beliefs, as well as the different perspectives, of other faiths. I don’t see any intrinsic contradiction or evil in doing so. I’ll bet Pope John Paul II was well versed in the teachings of other religions.

I can say from my own personal experience that it is possible to do just this. I was raised in the Lutheran church and we went to Sunday school every week and I went through catechism and was confirmed and we were a very good Lutheran family. However, we lived overseas at the time on the island of Guam (a predominately Catholic place). I went to mass on many occasions. The island also has a large population of Asians as well as expatriates from many other countries and cultures. I went to Buddhist temples with my friends. One of my best friends was Rachel Rosenzwieg - Jewish, of course. My family was invited to their Seder every year. My very first relationship, when I was twenty was with a Yugoslavian tuna boat fisherman. He was Muslim. Gowing up we travedled extensively and one of my mother’s favorite things to do in a foreign country is to visit the local temples/churches and participate in any local religious activities that we could join.

My parents never worried about our spending time and learning about other religious beliefs because she had no doubt about our being grounded in Christianity. But if we did choose some other path, I doubt that they would have cared. I ended up marrying a Catholic boy that I met on the island and I converted, but when that marriage ended I married a man from India - a Hindu.

I am as strong in my Catholic faith today as I ever was. In fact, even more. Learning about the beliefs of all the wonderful people I have met along the way has not weakened my faith in Christ’s Church. In fact, in some ways it has made it better. Twenty-one years ago I had a really hard time sitting quietly for holy hour and praying the rosary. I have had a meditative practice for years. It has taught me to quiet my mind and to listen - to God! The following Zen story has taught me how:

A university professor went to visit a famous Zen master. While the master quietly served tea, the professor talked about Zen. The master poured the visitor’s cup to the brim, and then kept pouring. The professor watched the overflowing cup until he could no longer restrain himself. “It’s overfull! No more will go in!” the professor blurted. “You are like this cup,” the master replied, “How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup.”

Stories like this have shown me that in order to be open and more receptive to the Holy Spirit I have to get rid of all the noise and chatter in my head from my busy day. When I enter the Daily Mass Chapel at my church I feel more quiet and ready to be filled with what God has to give. I sit in the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and I am at peace. The fact that this peace came out of a Zen story matters not. What’s important is that my cup is now empty of all the junk from my life. I can now fill my cup with whatever I want - I choose to fill it with the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Catholic Church.

 

[meltzerboy]

I can say from my own personal experience that it is possible to do just this. I was raised in the Lutheran church and we went to Sunday school every week and I went through catechism and was confirmed and we were a very good Lutheran family. However, we lived overseas at the time on the island of Guam (a predominately Catholic place). I went to mass on many occasions. The island also has a large population of Asians as well as expatriates from many other countries and cultures. I went to Buddhist temples with my friends. One of my best friends was Rachel Rosenzwieg - Jewish, of course. My family was invited to their Seder every year. My very first relationship, when I was twenty was with a Yugoslavian tuna boat fisherman. He was Muslim. Gowing up we travedled extensively and one of my mother’s favorite things to do in a foreign country is to visit the local temples/churches and participate in any local religious activities that we could join.

My parents never worried about our spending time and learning about other religious beliefs because she had no doubt about our being grounded in Christianity. But if we did choose some other path, I doubt that they would have cared. I ended up marrying a Catholic boy that I met on the island and I converted, but when that marriage ended I married a man from India - a Hindu.

I am as strong in my Catholic faith today as I ever was. In fact, even more. Learning about the beliefs of all the wonderful people I have met along the way has not weakened my faith in Christ’s Church. In fact, in some ways it has made it better. Twenty-one years ago I had a really hard time sitting quietly for holy hour and praying the rosary. I have had a meditative practice for years. It has taught me to quiet my mind and to listen - to God! The following Zen story has taught me how:

A university professor went to visit a famous Zen master. While the master quietly served tea, the professor talked about Zen. The master poured the visitor’s cup to the brim, and then kept pouring. The professor watched the overflowing cup until he could no longer restrain himself. “It’s overfull! No more will go in!” the professor blurted. “You are like this cup,” the master replied, “How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup.”

Stories like this have shown me that in order to be open and more receptive to the Holy Spirit I have to get rid of all the noise and chatter in my head from my busy day. When I enter the Daily Mass Chapel at my church I feel more quiet and ready to be filled with what God has to give. I sit in the Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and I am at peace. The fact that this peace came out of a Zen story matters not. What’s important is that my cup is now empty of all the junk from my life. I can now fill my cup with whatever I want - I choose to fill it with the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Catholic Church.

It depends a lot on one’s early experience, doesn’t it? You were lucky enough to be exposed to different cultures and beliefs and thus have developed an understanding of the inherent truths that are part of all of them. Your parents were also broad-minded enough to instill in you that appreciation. What you recount reminds me of the meaning of the seeming platitude my father would always tell me: “Traveling is broadening.” I understand now what he meant by that better than ever before. Love the story of the Zen Master, full of wisdom!

 

[dzheremi]

What the heck is it with this mania for trying to “fit together” incongruous religions and belief systems? Give up on syncretism, folks. It leads to damnation. Religion is not about who you can get along with! Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ obviously calls us to get along with everyone, but that does not mean adopting or accepting whatever it is they believe. My mother’s two best friends when I was a child happened to be the matriarchs of our town’s two Jewish families, and we were invited to their Seders, and they invited us out to their property every year to chop down a Christmas tree (one of the families lived on several acres in the countryside). That doesn’t mean Judaism and Christianity somehow fit together. No non-Christian religion “fits” with Christianity. That’s why we’re Christians and not something else. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, etc. can all be very nice, loving, and agreeable people, but they’re all wrong. Period.

 

[dharmasister]

What the heck is it with this mania for trying to “fit together” incongruous religions and belief systems? Give up on syncretism, folks. It leads to damnation. Religion is not about who you can get along with! Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ obviously calls us to get along with everyone, but that does not mean adopting or accepting whatever it is they believe. My mother’s two best friends when I was a child happened to be the matriarchs of our town’s two Jewish families, and we were invited to their Seders, and they invited us out to their property every year to chop down a Christmas tree (one of the families lived on several acres in the countryside). That doesn’t mean Judaism and Christianity somehow fit together. No non-Christian religion “fits” with Christianity. That’s why we’re Christians and not something else. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, etc. can all be very nice, loving, and agreeable people, but they’re all wrong. Period.

Wow! You do not understand the background and foundation of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church IS the fulfillment of the Jewish faith! They fit together perfectly. You should read The Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking The Secrets of the Last Supper by Dr. Brad Pitre. No one was more Jewish than Jesus. He is after all The Jewish Messiah! A group of Jews did not recognize him as such and they crucified him. However, another group of Jews Did recognize him as such, and they became his first followers. A large portion of the Catholic Mass is based on Jewish Tradition. The early Christians (Catholics) would meet in the synagogs and worship. Afterwards they would gather to celebrate the Eucharist. In the Mass today, we sing the same psalms and read the same scriptures, with the addition of the new testament scripture. And of course, after the Liturgy of the Word, which is very similar to the way the Jews were worshiping (because the first Christians were Jews,) we celebrate the Liturgy of the Eucharist. It is the same Jewish sacrifice that has always been offered, only now the sacrificial lamb in Jesus Christ! So, yes, Judaism and Christianity DO fit together!!

 

[dzheremi]

Um…I thought it was pretty clear from the context of the thread in general that we are not talking about the historical roots of Christianity vis-a-vis any other faith. Apparently not.

Again: Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and any other “-ism” that does not recognize the essential Christian doctrinal positions (the divinity of the Only-Begotten Son of God, the Messiah and Savior of mankind, Jesus Christ; the Holy Trinity; etc.) does not “fit together” with Christianity. Period.

 

[dharmasister]

Um…I thought it was pretty clear from the context of the thread in general that we are not talking about the historical roots of Christianity vis-a-vis any other faith. Apparently not.

Again: Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and any other “-ism” that does not recognize the essential Christian doctrinal positions (the divinity of the Only-Begotten Son of God, the Messiah and Savior of mankind, Jesus Christ; the Holy Trinity; etc.) does not “fit together” with Christianity. Period.

Well, the thread’s original context may not have been specifically about the* historical roots of Christianity vis-a-vis any other faith*, but you brought it up and incorrectly stated that Christianity and Judaism do not fit together. I am simply correcting the error that you are using to make your argument. I don’t know which Christian church you belong to. If you are not Catholic maybe that’s why you don’t see the Jewish/Christian connection.

It was not my intention to sidetrack the thread by bringing up the Jewish Roots of Christianity, but it’s an invalid argument you are trying to make bringing up the incongruity of religions, because the two religions you chose, do fit.

 

[dzheremi]

Thank you, Jharek. As usual, you’ve said more or less what I was trying to say, but with fewer words and provoking less disagreement.

If Christianity is true, then everything else is false. And Christianity is true! So it does not bode well for…everything else, and I question why anyone would want to introduce untruth into God’s perfect and complete truth, which is in Christianity alone.

 

[Contarini]

Thank you, Jharek. As usual, you’ve said more or less what I was trying to say, but with fewer words and provoking less disagreement.

If Christianity is true, then everything else is false. And Christianity is true! So it does not bode well for…everything else, and I question why anyone would want to introduce untruth into God’s perfect and complete truth, which is in Christianity alone.

Because your statement is incoherent. It requires us to say that everything said by members of other religions is false, which is patently nonsense, since many of the things they say agree with Christianity, and many other things are things on which official Christian doctrine has nothing to say.

The corollary of the statement “Christianity is true” is thus exactly the reverse of what you claim. The true corollary is “no other religion can be completely false,” since no religion has yet been discovered that does not agree with Christianity to some extent.

Edwin

 

[rossum]

The corollary of the statement “Christianity is true” is thus exactly the reverse of what you claim. The true corollary is “no other religion can be completely false,” since no religion has yet been discovered that does not agree with Christianity to some extent.

Coming at it from the Buddhism point of view, it is true to say that Christianity is not completely false. Much of it is correct, some of it is irrelevant and some of it is wrong.

rossum

 

[babylonsfalling]

There is no salvation in these religions, because no one is lost in these religions. Calling another person’s religion false doesn’t make it false.

Your friend
Sufjon

Without Christ’s salvation, everyone is lost, even if they don’t know it or don’t believe it.

It’s true however that calling one’s religion false is not what makes it false. It’s also true that calling someone’s answer false if they think 2+2=5 doesn’t make the answer false. It’s false with or without someone telling them.

 

[meltzerboy]

Without Christ’s salvation, everyone is lost, even if they don’t know it or don’t believe it.

It’s true however that calling one’s religion false is not what makes it false. It’s also true that calling someone’s answer false if they think 2+2=5 doesn’t make the answer false. It’s false with or without someone telling them.

Your logic is impeccable. However, I’m sure you must realize that, LOGICALLY SPEAKING (even if not true), one can make the same assertion about ANY religion given the premise that the particular religion is the truth, although it is NOT according to your belief. So, wouldn’t it be just as logical and perhaps more truthful to say that most, if not all, religions SHARE certain basic moral principles and in this way they DO fit together? However, in other ways–probably more essential to you–they do NOT fit together. By doing this, you can still believe your religion is the true one, while simultaneously acknowledging some of the ideas of other religions. But when you call a religion false, you seem to be saying the entire religion has not one shred of truth in it, which I think is going overboard and is something I doubt you believe. Or do you?

 

[SedesDomi]

The primarily Muslim state of Indonesia officially permits six religions – Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Confucianism – on the grounds that they all accept a creator God. In order to fulfill this requirement, Indonesian Buddhists posit Adibuddha, the primordial Buddha of The Kalachakra Tantra, as the creator. The Kalachakra teachings had flourished in Indonesia, especially during the late tenth century, as reported by Atisha during his visit. Nowadays, there is very little knowledge of those teachings there.

During a lecture tour of Indonesia in 1988, I had many discussions with Buddhist monks about the issue of God in Buddhism. Since Adibuddha can be interpreted as the clear light primordial consciousness, and since all appearances of samsara and nirvana are the play or “creation” of that mind, we concluded that there is no reason to feel uncomfortable in saying that Buddhism accepts a creator God. The fact that Buddhism asserts Adibuddha not to be an individual separate being, but something present in each sentient being, is just a matter of theological differences concerning the nature of God. Many Jewish, Christian, Islamic, and Hindu thinkers assert that God is abstract and present in all beings. As the Muslims say, “Allah has many names.”

Therefore, from my experience in Indonesia, I agreed, on the basis of Adibuddha, that Buddhism does accept a creator God, but with its own unique interpretation. Once this common ground was established, I was easily able to begin a comfortable dialogue with the Islamic theologians in Turkey. They invited me to return to their university later that year to lecture to the student body and faculty on Buddhism and the relation between Islam and Buddhism.

 

[Sufjon]

Without Christ’s salvation, everyone is lost, even if they don’t know it or don’t believe it.

It’s true however that calling one’s religion false is not what makes it false. It’s also true that calling someone’s answer false if they think 2+2=5 doesn’t make the answer false. It’s false with or without someone telling them.

I don’t think I ever told you that two and two are five.

The initial question is how do you know what you believe is true?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[hn160]

I don’t think I ever told you that two and two are five.

The initial question is how do you know what you believe is true?

Your friend
Sufjon

Because of all the wittiness to the Resurrection, and would people die for something that was not true? Christ choose us, we can not choose Him. All we have to do is to believe in Him for eternal life. Those that don’t are destined for Hell.

 

[dharmasister]

Because of all the wittiness to the Resurrection, and would people die for something that was not true? Christ choose us, we can not choose Him. All we have to do is to believe in Him for eternal life. Those that don’t are destined for Hell.

Oh, then what you are saying is that Islam is true!!! I mean, look at all the Muslims who are willing to strap bombs to themselves and blow up the place!! Then it must be true!! Having people die for a religion does not make it true.

 

[Sufjon]

Because of all the wittiness to the Resurrection, and would people die for something that was not true? Christ choose us, we can not choose Him. All we have to do is to believe in Him for eternal life. Those that don’t are destined for Hell.

That kind of falls short of proof. It still looks like a matter of what you believe.

As for dying for things that aren’t true, only recently we witnessed the tragedy of over 100,000 people dying because of reports of WMD that weren’t true. Of course we promptly made up new reasons, but that was the reason given to us at the time.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[hn160]

Oh, then what you are saying is that Islam is true!!! I mean, look at all the Muslims who are willing to strap bombs to themselves and blow up the place!! Then it must be true!! Having people die for a religion does not make it true.

Explain all the early Christ martyrs and especially St. Stephen. Muslims worship a god Allah that leads to Hell. The point is would the martyrs die for something that was not true,

 

[rossum]

Explain all the early Christ martyrs and especially St. Stephen. Muslims worship a god Allah that leads to Hell. The point is would the martyrs die for something that was not true,

They died for something they believed to be true, as did martyrs for other faiths. Is Catharism true because many Cathars were killed for their beliefs? Just because something is believed to be true does not make it actually true. There are people who believe that the Republicans are better than the Democrats and there are people who believe that the Democrats are better than the Republicans. Both cannot be true yet both are sincerely believed.

rossum

 

[dharmasister]

The point is would the martyrs die for something that was not true,

YES!!! There are martyrs in every religion. Some of them are obviously not true, but someone obviously believed them to be true to the point of being willing to die for that belief. There are a lot of martyrs in the Catholic/Christian faith. But that’s not what makes it true.

 

[Contarini]

Explain all the early Christ martyrs and especially St. Stephen. Muslims worship a god Allah that leads to Hell.

That opinion is not compatible with historic, orthodox Christian theism.

You are making nonsense of Aquinas’s “Five Ways.” Aquinas takes for granted that everyone who speaks of a First Cause is speaking of the same God we worship. This is the standard Christian view from the early apologists (among whom I’d include St. Paul) on.

Edwin