Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity fitting together?

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The statement “avoid evil” points to an objective moral standard that is not relative and that can only have been created by God.
There is an objective moral standard, but it is not created by any god. All gods are subject to moral law, karma. If a god breaks moral law then that god will suffer the consequences of his actions.

Buddhism’s answer to the Euthyphro dilemma is that the gods have no choice over what is moral or not. The gods are living beings and are subject to moral law, karma, in the same way that other living beings are.

rossum
 
Do Good and avoid evil. In a world that is deceptive, in a world where one is unable to to know what is true, then how does one know what to do and to avoid? How does one know good and evil?
“By their fruits shall you know them”. See my quote from the Kalama sutta in post #350.
Second… Orthodoxy and Orthopraxy go together.
Agreed. However, historically Christianity tends to value orthodoxy rather higher than Buddhism has. Buddhists are generally more relaxed about minor differences in belief; practice is more important than belief. The beliefs behind the actions are less important that the action.
Christianity is both - Orthopraxy and Orthodoxy. Right doctrine informs right practice. One cannot practice what is right if one does not know through correct teaching what is right.
But sometimes incorrect teaching can also lead to right actions:* Paris is the capital of Germany.
  • The capital of Germany is in France.
  • Therefore Paris is in France.
rossum
 
And in that regard, no religion can truly compare with Christianity and Hinduism. I understand perfectly why C.S. Lewis narrowed it down to those two before finally making his choice.
First of all, that assumes that Lewis was seriously “shopping around” among the major religions. I see no evidence that he actually did this in anything but the most cursory way. Once he decided he believed in God, his reversion to Anglican Christianity was pretty much a done deal, I think. And that was quite right and proper. The “shopping around” model is nonsense–no one does it honestly, and so people should never claim to do it at all. In some of his weaker moments as an apologist, Lewis spoke as if he had done this and/or as if people should.

Lewis knew very little about Eastern religions, and they were never serious options for him. Lewis’s lack of knowledge/interest is shown in his dismissal of Buddhism as a “Hindu heresy.” He compares it to Islam (as a “Christian heresy”) but it would be fairer to compare it to both Christianity and Islam (as “Jewish heresies”). In other words, both the “Semitic” and the Eastern traditions have at their core a religious tradition that is very culture-specific, which then branched out into “international” forms.

By setting up Hinduism against Christianity and dismissing Buddhism, Lewis made it too easy to reject “Eastern” religions. Mind you, even on those terms he’s unfair to Hinduism (it does not appear to be true, as he claims, that Hindu ascetics/philosophers and Hindu popular religion simply do their own thing with no impact on each other–and insofar as it is true, it’s also true to some degree in Christianity; at any rate, this is a pretty flimsy basis on which to dismiss an entire religious tradition).

To me, at least, Buddhism and not Hinduism is the major alternative to Christianity. Don’t get me wrong–there are many things that I respect and admire immensely about Hinduism, and I take it seriously as well. But it isn’t really the same kind of thing as Christianity. It’s as much a cultural tradition as a religion–it’s pretty hard to convert to. If a Westerner were to abandon Christianity for some kind of paganism, without finding Buddhism convincing, then Hinduism would be a good model of a pagan tradition that developed without too much interference from Semitic monotheism.

At least that’s how I see it.

Edwin
 
“By their fruits shall you know them”. See my quote from the Kalama sutta in post #350.
But if everything is deceptive then even the fruit is deceptive. So how do we know whether the fruit is good or evil?
Agreed. However, historically Christianity tends to value orthodoxy rather higher than Buddhism has.
The emphasis on orthodoxy is only in so far that it will lead to right action.

That is why from the very beginning, Christianity has been at the forefront of charitable works. Globally, Christians are the number one provider of charity and are at the forefront in the work towards justice and peace.

Based on that, we can say that in Christianity orthodoxy and orthopraxis are mutually implicative.

As the saying goes., they will know we are Christians by our love. Though many Christians do not exactly follow that, it nonetheless shows that orthopraxis is very much at the heart of Christian life because of orthodoxy.

This is why Protestants accuse Catholics of a doctrine of “good works”.
Buddhists are generally more relaxed about minor differences in belief; practice is more important than belief. The beliefs behind the actions are less important that the action.
Which takes us back to how do we determine whether the praxis is indeed ortho?
But sometimes incorrect teaching can also lead to right actions:
  • Paris is the capital of Germany.
  • The capital of Germany is in France.
  • Therefore Paris is in France.
Exactly how does that example show that incorrect teaching lead to right action. Where is the incorrect teaching and where is the right action.

Firstly, if the first premise is correct, the second premise must be wrong. If a city is the capital of one country, it cannot be in another country. Therefore the conclusion is false.

Which still leaves us wondering where is the right action in all that.
 
Everybody has a God shaped hole in their hearts. I remember a Vatican II document that stated that we should not reject the parts of other faiths are a true and lead to Christ. Most faiths and belief systems have the basic idea of love thy neighbor built into the core. You can still be on the path to God without yet being in the fullness of what He set for us.
Don’t know what this means or say.

Has God not reveal to us all that we need to live for Him? why are we seek for things outside of what God has given to us? I would say this is a danger idea.
 
But if everything is deceptive then even the fruit is deceptive. So how do we know whether the fruit is good or evil?
In this context “deceptive” means “not 100% reliable”. Even with 75% reliability we can work towards 80% reliability. We do the best we can with the information available, imperfect and incomplete as that information is.
Exactly how does that example show that incorrect teaching lead to right action. Where is the incorrect teaching and where is the right action.
Two incorrect premises led to a correct conclusion.

To say, “I should not steal things because if I do the Invisible Pink Unicorn will trample me under Her Holy Hooves,” is to reach a right action, not stealing, from an incorrect belief.

rossum
 
The standard, Western definition of pantheism is pretty simple: the material universe is the only “God” there is. Wikipedia gets this definition of “pantheism” correct. Pantheism, thus, gives the material-only universe a “spiritual” feeling by placing the label “God” upon it – but this “God” is simply the matter/energy universe that is now seen to be deserving of reverence and communion.
I find that to be an inadequate picture of pantheism, which doesn’t have to be materialist - i.e. it needn’t maintain that all that exists is matter and energy. The notion of a spiritual realm - or a at least the existence or grounding of some spiritual being (“being” in the broad, ontological sense here) - need not be incompatible with pantheism. Yes, pantheism insists that the material universe is God, but does it confine God to the material universe? The universe, yes, but the material universe?

I see no reason to accept that it does.

I admit, however, that some connotations of “pantheism” may not apply to Hinduism, which generally in my opinion escapes and transcends easy labels/categorization. Everything I’ve learned about religions has led me to believe that regardless of one’s worldview, Christianity and Hinduism are the hardest religions to pin down.
You have to understand Brahman by reading all the statements about Brahman. It’s true that the Upanishads often say that “Food is Brahman” (very Eucharistic, eh?),
Yes! 🙂
“The Cosmos is Brahman”, etc., but they don’t mean that the cosmos exhausts what Brahman is, or that the cosmos is the only form that Brahman can take.

These statements have to be balanced with statements that point to Brahman’s utter transcendence of the material cosmos:

From the Avadhuta Gita 6:8

Space, time, water, fire, earth,
constituting the world,
are a mere mirage [that is, not as Real as Brahman, which is Unchanging].
In truth the One, imperishable,
ever blissful, alone exists.
There is neither cloud nor water in It.”

Understanding Brahman requires realizing two, seemingly paradoxical, things: (1) knowing that the universe is not-different from, is one with, Brahman; (2) and knowing that the universe is different from, not to be simply equated with, Brahman.
Okay, thanks, I think I understand.

Pantheism would confine Brahman to the material - claim that “the cosmos exhausts what Brahman is” - only if pantheism itself equated “the universe” strictly with the material universe. I don’t think that’s generally true.

And I don’t think pantheism undermines the notion that “the universe is not to be simply equated with Brahman” either. Of course they’re not to be equated - isn’t the illusion of separation/difference a critical part of Lila, Brahman’s “divine play”?
Ok, so I skipped over 24 pages of replies just so I could put in my two cents!

:o

I know nothing about Hinduism, but a fair bit about Christianity, Catholicism and Buddhism, especially Zen Buddhism (there are probably as many different Buddhist sects as there are Christian sects).

There are remarkable similarities between Buddhism and Christianity. The most important similarity for me is the Holy Spirit. For Christianity, the Holy Spirit is something that one embraces, something one allows to enter ones heart. In Buddhism, the “Holy Spirit” is something that you recognize in your soul once you go through the exercise of cleansing your mind/spirit of everyday desires.

One is an action of bringing in from the outside, another is an action of self-cleansing in order to recognize what is already there!

:getholy:
Hmm… no offense, but I don’t think this is valid at all. It’s nothing short of just plain inaccurate to pretend that Buddhists believe in the Christian Trinity as Christians do - and outside the context of the Trinity, “the Holy Spirit” is just a phrase you’re using. This is pure equivocation on a scale more massive than I’ve seen in a long time.

For another thing, the Holy Spirit in Christianity is a divine Person - not a “something.”
There is an objective moral standard, but it is not created by any god. All gods are subject to moral law, karma. If a god breaks moral law then that god will suffer the consequences of his actions.

Buddhism’s answer to the Euthyphro dilemma is that the gods have no choice over what is moral or not. The gods are living beings and are subject to moral law, karma, in the same way that other living beings are.

rossum
While I don’t answer it the same way you do, I also don’t think JMartyr’s objection is in any way insurmountable from the Buddhist worldview. Not even Christians believe in divine command ethics, though sometimes we speak as if we do from a purely analogical standpoint.

Rossum, I love that you’re able to address Kant, Plato, and others in the context of discussions about the Buddhist worldview and ethics. This is a great discussion!
 
First of all, that assumes that Lewis was seriously “shopping around” among the major religions. I see no evidence that he actually did this in anything but the most cursory way. Once he decided he believed in God, his reversion to Anglican Christianity was pretty much a done deal, I think. And that was quite right and proper. The “shopping around” model is nonsense–no one does it honestly, and so people should never claim to do it at all. In some of his weaker moments as an apologist, Lewis spoke as if he had done this and/or as if people should.
Of course. It’s almost impossible to “shop around” in a way that does justice to all religions considered. At most one might have the time, energy, and resources to do justice to two or perhaps three… and probably not the ones rooted in cultures different from one’s own.

I don’t remember exactly where Lewis mentioned the point I raised, though - does he write as though he exhaustively explored the religions of the east?
Lewis’s lack of knowledge/interest is shown in his dismissal of Buddhism as a “Hindu heresy.” He compares it to Islam (as a “Christian heresy”) but it would be fairer to compare it to both Christianity and Islam (as “Jewish heresies”). In other words, both the “Semitic” and the Eastern traditions have at their core a religious tradition that is very culture-specific, which then branched out into “international” forms.
Agreed.
By setting up Hinduism against Christianity and dismissing Buddhism, Lewis made it too easy to reject “Eastern” religions. Mind you, even on those terms he’s unfair to Hinduism (it does not appear to be true, as he claims, that Hindu ascetics/philosophers and Hindu popular religion simply do their own thing with no impact on each other–and insofar as it is true, it’s also true to some degree in Christianity; at any rate, this is a pretty flimsy basis on which to dismiss an entire religious tradition).
A flimsy basis on which to dismiss an entire religious tradition - yes. But I do perceive a difference. Perhaps it’s a significant difference only to a western mind, but doesn’t Hindu popular religion which is externally polytheist bear far less resemblance to its jnana yoga counterpart than Christian devotional practices do to Christian metaphysical underpinnings?
To me, at least, Buddhism and not Hinduism is the major alternative to Christianity.
The reason I differ in this regard is that Hinduism can include Buddhism (as it can most belief systems, at least according to its own principles). When pressed to choose between them as the major alternative to everything that Christianity has offered the world, I simply “cheat” by picking Hinduism knowing that I can have my cake and eat it, too.

Besides, to me it’s always seemed that Hinduism includes and integrates everything in a philosophically and practically expansive way that brings together so many details into a paradoxical, metaphysical, and deeply nuanced system of belief and practice, whereas Buddhism’s self-limitation to a narrower level of experience makes it almost inherently less impressive in my view. Not to mention that, even as a westerner who probably misunderstands many things about both significantly, I still find ideas like the Samsaric cycle/journey and Lila to be far more compelling, profound, bold, and interesting than the Buddhist ideas about the self (anatta). Ultimately, there’s something so much more grand and larger-than-life - and yet true to life - about the Hindu objective (or at least what I understand of it) than the Buddhist objective (or at least what I understand of it).
Don’t get me wrong–there are many things that I respect and admire immensely about Hinduism, and I take it seriously as well. But it isn’t really the same kind of thing as Christianity. It’s as much a cultural tradition as a religion–it’s pretty hard to convert to. If a Westerner were to abandon Christianity for some kind of paganism, without finding Buddhism convincing, then Hinduism would be a good model of a pagan tradition that developed without too much interference from Semitic monotheism.
Yes, great points. I do understand how difficult it would be for someone like you or I to integrate ourselves into Hinduism successfully (who knows, a Hindu might even warn a person like us that it would take more than one lifetime to do so :p).
 
Hmm… no offense, but I don’t think this is valid at all. It’s nothing short of just plain inaccurate to pretend that Buddhists believe in the Christian Trinity as Christians do - and outside the context of the Trinity, “the Holy Spirit” is just a phrase you’re using. This is pure equivocation on a scale more massive than I’ve seen in a long time.

For another thing, the Holy Spirit in Christianity is a divine Person - not a “something.”
I didn’t say that Buddhists believe in the Trinity.

My point was that accepting the Holy Spirit into your heart is pretty much the same thing as experiencing nirvana.
 
I didn’t say that Buddhists believe in the Trinity.

My point was that accepting the Holy Spirit into your heart is pretty much the same thing as experiencing nirvana.
Um, that example pretty much proves that you don’t understand the Holy Spirit AND that you don’t understand nirvana.

In pure fact, the two things couldn’t be more opposite.
 
Of course. It’s almost impossible to “shop around” in a way that does justice to all religions considered. At most one might have the time, energy, and resources to do justice to two or perhaps three… and probably not the ones rooted in cultures different from one’s own.

I don’t remember exactly where Lewis mentioned the point I raised, though - does he write as though he exhaustively explored the religions of the east?
He mentions it in a couple of different places–Mere Christianity is one, but he definitely talks about it autobiographically elsewhere (I think maybe in Surprised by Joy). He doesn’t say that he exhaustively explored the matter, but because of the way he sets things up (as a logical exploration of the possibilities) he could be interpreted that way, and I thought (apparently mistakenly) that that was how you were interpreting him. I don’t think he was intentionally misleading, but I do think that in MC and some of his other works he speaks as if the process of discovering religious truth (including his own journey) was a lot simpler and more reductively logical than it actually is.
A flimsy basis on which to dismiss an entire religious tradition - yes. But I do perceive a difference. Perhaps it’s a significant difference only to a western mind, but doesn’t Hindu popular religion which is externally polytheist bear far less resemblance to its jnana yoga counterpart than Christian devotional practices do to Christian metaphysical underpinnings?
I think there is a difference, yes, but Lewis describes it as if it were a decisive consideration. I think he’d have done better to say “I really haven’t examined the Eastern religions, but the little I know of them gives me no reason to think them superior to Christianity, and here’s one admittedly superficial reason,” and leave it at that. But I think the root problem is that Lewis embraced an overly “encyclopedic” and insufficiently “traditioned” understanding of truth (to use Alistair MacIntyre’s terminology).
The reason I differ in this regard is that Hinduism can include Buddhism (as it can most belief systems, at least according to its own principles). When pressed to choose between them as the major alternative to everything that Christianity has offered the world, I simply “cheat” by picking Hinduism knowing that I can have my cake and eat it, too.
I don’t think this is true. Hindus claim this, and certainly the Vedanta tradition has assimilated a lot of Buddhist elements, but I think that the radicalism of the Buddhist vision of the human person isn’t compatible with Hinduism per se. Hindu triumphalism should be treated just as critically as any other kind.
Besides, to me it’s always seemed that Hinduism includes and integrates everything in a philosophically and practically expansive way that brings together so many details into a paradoxical, metaphysical, and deeply nuanced system of belief and practice, whereas Buddhism’s self-limitation to a narrower level of experience makes it almost inherently less impressive in my view. Not to mention that, even as a westerner who probably misunderstands many things about both significantly, I still find ideas like the Samsaric cycle/journey and Lila to be far more compelling, profound, bold, and interesting than the Buddhist ideas about the self (anatta). Ultimately, there’s something so much more grand and larger-than-life - and yet true to life - about the Hindu objective (or at least what I understand of it) than the Buddhist objective (or at least what I understand of it).
Well, I find the “anatta” concept powerful, disturbing, and on some level deeply appealing and compelling. That’s not to diss Hinduism–it’s just that I see Hinduism more as a cultural tradition that encompasses a lot of deep wisdom about the human condition, while Buddhism has something that looks more analogous to divine revelation as we Christians understand it: a radical message that claims to interpret the human condition and tell an unpalatable truth that will lead to liberation if people only accept it. This message also challenges (at its starkest and strongest) the most disturbing aspect of Hinduism, which is the latter’s complacent acceptance of the social status quo.

Edwin
 
I didn’t say that Buddhists believe in the Trinity.

My point was that accepting the Holy Spirit into your heart is pretty much the same thing as experiencing nirvana.
I’ve accepted the Holy Spirit into my heart, and I sure as hell haven’t achieved what Buddhists call “nirvana.” I wonder what our friend rossum in this thread would say to me if I actually tried to claim that I’ve achieved nirvana.

Your claim about the Holy Spirit is nothing more than a conflation of caricatures of Buddhism and Christianity, one that does justice to neither.
He mentions it in a couple of different places–Mere Christianity is one, but he definitely talks about it autobiographically elsewhere (I think maybe in Surprised by Joy). He doesn’t say that he exhaustively explored the matter, but because of the way he sets things up (as a logical exploration of the possibilities) he could be interpreted that way, and I thought (apparently mistakenly) that that was how you were interpreting him. I don’t think he was intentionally misleading, but I do think that in MC and some of his other works he speaks as if the process of discovering religious truth (including his own journey) was a lot simpler and more reductively logical than it actually is.
Fair enough. I didn’t mean to insinuate that Lewis familiarized himself with Hinduism just as much as with Christianity, though my words did perhaps inadvertently give that impression.
I think there is a difference, yes, but Lewis describes it as if it were a decisive consideration. I think he’d have done better to say “I really haven’t examined the Eastern religions, but the little I know of them gives me no reason to think them superior to Christianity, and here’s one admittedly superficial reason,” and leave it at that. But I think the root problem is that Lewis embraced an overly “encyclopedic” and insufficiently “traditioned” understanding of truth (to use Alistair MacIntyre’s terminology).
Ah, yes, I see what you mean now. And I agree. I don’t think there’s necessarily anything inferior about the more conspicuous divide between, say, bhakti yoga and jnana yoga, although I admit that I am impressed that traditional Christianity somehow manages to keep its “cult” and “creed” so visibly compatible.

Admittedly, Christianity has an easier job set out for it in that regard, as a personal and transcendent God is in some ways easier to comprehend than Brahman.
I don’t think this is true. Hindus claim this, and certainly the Vedanta tradition has assimilated a lot of Buddhist elements, but I think that the radicalism of the Buddhist vision of the human person isn’t compatible with Hinduism per se. Hindu triumphalism should be treated just as critically as any other kind.
Fair enough. After all, Hindus would probably say the same of Christianity. Many would probably simply conclude that Christianity is a bhakti yoga and Jesus an Avatar of Vishnu.

The fact that Ghandi supposedly said, “I consider myself a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist” is to me proof that he was actually Hindu. 😛 No rationally competent Christian, Jew, Muslim (or Buddhist?) could assert that.
Well, I find the “anatta” concept powerful, disturbing, and on some level deeply appealing and compelling. That’s not to diss Hinduism–it’s just that I see Hinduism more as a cultural tradition that encompasses a lot of deep wisdom about the human condition, while Buddhism has something that looks more analogous to divine revelation as we Christians understand it: a radical message that claims to interpret the human condition and tell an unpalatable truth that will lead to liberation if people only accept it. This message also challenges (at its starkest and strongest) the most disturbing aspect of Hinduism, which is the latter’s complacent acceptance of the social status quo.
Well said on your last point - Hinduism’s greatest flaw might indeed lie in its “complacent acceptance of the social status quo” (even when it acknowledges its arbitrariness, as it often does).

Still, I very much see Hinduism as “a radical message that claims to interpret the human condition and tell an unpalatable truth that will lead to liberation if people only accept it,” as it seems to me to have a very metaphysically distinct objective that - despite its staggering diversity - truly unifies all its various creedal and practical manifestations in pursuit of that quest.

I think I see what you’re saying about Buddhism, although the latter’s admittedly wise shunning of concrete doctrines about the divine - rossum on this very thread has been commenting that gods, humans, whatever, they all must achieve enlightenment and* that’s* the real distinction - makes me feel that on a metaphysical level it’s just got a far more horizontal feel to it than Christianity or Hinduism.

I admit that may be the student of western philosophy in me causing me to be hugely biased, but it is how I tend to think nonetheless. Buddhism’s insights and tools impress me too, but I probably will never be able to see them as anything but… incomplete in light of my Christian faith. Hinduism feels fuller.
 
And let me reiterate again, Contarini, that I really loved it when you said that any religion worth its salt ought to be at least as confusing, paradoxical, and complex as life is or it probably has very little to do with real life.
 
I’m afraid these forums are not filled with open minds ready to accept much more than Catholic doctrine to the core. I have learned a lot here but mostly all things Catholic. There are some here who like philosophy but I have seen people get their ideas shut down hard in here by hard core Catholics with closed minds. I for one see the obvious connections between living for a higher power, treating people like you want to be treated, and a life of service to others. The biggest difference I see is that we are offered a way of salvation through Jesus sacrifice on the cross so we are not judged as much on our actions but on our response to the grace we have been given. I suggest you try www.christianforums.com where there are many forums open to discussion about all aspects of Christianity and not just Catholic. I’ve been spending a lot of time there. Here is where I talk about real down and dirty fundamental Catholic stuff… Of course you are free to feel your way around and find what or where your interests bring you.

Godspeed-
Rturner76
Something rampant in the Catholic Church, and indeed in every Church and religion on this earth, is the automatic belief, of someone raised in a given religion, in everything said religion teaches without any recourse to reason or rationality of any sort. However, thankfully, with the many ways we have of communicating with other cultures with other patterns of thought, we begin to challenge ourselves to understand our faith and to deepen our adherence to it based on personal choice rather than on a culture-driven proselytism. Personally, as an ex-Protestant who entered the Catholic Church, the main way I even began my journey to the Catholic Church was through Reason and study. Although, as was the case with me, sometimes “reason” can lead you in the wrong direction when you fail to think things through thoroughly, or when you depend wholly on your own reason and make no recourse to any “a posteriori” information.
Also in response to what you said about actions and our response to grace. Where I stand on that issue is that, in both the Protestant and Catholic circles of belief, actions are the way we “respond” to this grace. In fact, the very notion of a response, depends wholly on some form of action. For Catholics, our response to this grace, is through experiencing said grace through the sacraments handed down to us from Christ and his apostles, and responding to this Grace in the way we treat other people, ourselves, and the sacred. In the Protestant core of belief, it is generally based on a prayer. But while a heavily-used argument against the Catholic Church is that we are “saved through works”, the “Sinner’s Prayer” used by many Protestant denominations, is in itself a “work”, so to speak.
 
There is an objective moral standard, but it is not created by any god. All gods are subject to moral law, karma. If a god breaks moral law then that god will suffer the consequences of his actions.

Buddhism’s answer to the Euthyphro dilemma is that the gods have no choice over what is moral or not. The gods are living beings and are subject to moral law, karma, in the same way that other living beings are.

rossum
If there is an objective moral law then it had to have been created by a higher intelligence. Even if you believe the universe had no beginning (which science has now proven it did) laws like “Thou shall not murder” cannot spontaneously come about by themselves, anymore than human laws (like stopping at a red light) can come about by themselves. They must have been “authored” by someone.
 
If there is an objective moral law then it had to have been created by a higher intelligence. Even if you believe the universe had no beginning (which science has now proven it did) laws like “Thou shall not murder” cannot spontaneously come about by themselves, anymore than human laws (like stopping at a red light) can come about by themselves. They must have been “authored” by someone.
Sure it can, and it’d only take one incident of being a victim of natural law to do it.

With natural law, it’s a no holds barred survival of the fittest situation. Nobody is going to like living in a situation where they are in constant danger of being raped and pillage so they band with other people and form tribes for protection. These tribes will eventually form a social contract that would mean that the member of that society gives up certain natural rights and assumes certain duties for social rights and material/personal protections from the community. Societies and civilizations could not exist without the social contract, and it still exists in every society today, just some are more complicated than others.
 
Something rampant in the Catholic Church, and indeed in every Church and religion on this earth, is the automatic belief, of someone raised in a given religion, in everything said religion teaches without any recourse to reason or rationality of any sort. However, thankfully, with the many ways we have of communicating with other cultures with other patterns of thought, we begin to challenge ourselves to understand our faith and to deepen our adherence to it based on personal choice rather than on a culture-driven proselytism.
The general perception is that Buddhists and Hindus are less dogmatic than Catholics because Buddhists and Hindus have beliefs that (wrongly) cause people to think they are less dogmatic (like “all religions are equal paths to God”). But the moment you challenge them on these beliefs their own dogmatism becomes very apparent. They are just as close minded and unwilling to admit they are wrong as Catholics or Muslims.

You cannot really escape being dogmatic. Even the person who wrote this post is being dogmatic. He is making dogmatic statements about the religions of the world and how people blindly follow them. The people who pride themselves on their “open mindedness” and their desire to “communicate with different cultures” are often the most dogmatic people of all. They are dogmatic about values like “tolerance” and “open mindedness”. They will not consider any ideology or opinion that they perceive as being (even slightly) “intolerant” or “close-minded”. Which means they really aren’t being tolerant at all, because they will not consider any ideology that differs significantly from their own.

“***There are two types of people in this world, those who know they are dogmatic and those who don’t”. *** - Chesterton
 
Sure it can, and it’d only take one incident of being a victim of natural law to do it.

With natural law, it’s a no holds barred survival of the fittest situation. Nobody is going to like living in a situation where they are in constant danger of being raped and pillage so they band with other people and form tribes for protection. These tribes will eventually form a social contract that would mean that the member of that society gives up certain natural rights and assumes certain duties for social rights and material/personal protections from the community. Societies and civilizations could not exist without the social contract, and it still exists in every society today, just some are more complicated than others.
Lewis has answered this:

For example, some people wrote to me saying, “Isn’t what you call the
Moral Law simply our herd instinct and hasn’t it been developed just like
all our other instincts?” Now I do not deny that we may have a herd
instinct: but that is not what I mean by the Moral Law. We all know what it
feels like to be prompted by instinct-by mother love, or sexual instinct, or
the instinct for food. It means that you feel a strong want or desire to act
in a certain way. And, of course, we sometimes do feel just that sort of
desire to help another person: and no doubt that desire is due to the herd
instinct. But feeling a desire to help is quite different from feeling that
you ought to help whether you want to or not. Supposing you hear a cry for
help from a man in danger. You will probably feel two desires-one a desire
to give help (due to your herd instinct), the other a desire to keep out of
danger (due to the instinct for self-preservation). But you will find inside
you, in addition to these two impulses, a third thing which tells you that
you ought to follow the impulse to help, and suppress the impulse to run
away. Now this thing that judges between two instincts, that decides which
should be encouraged, cannot itself be either of them. You might as well say
that the sheet of music which tells you, at a given moment, to play one note
on the piano and not another, is itself one of the notes on the keyboard.
The Moral Law tells us the tune we have to play: our instincts are merely
the keys.
Another way of seeing that the Moral Law is not simply one of our
instincts is this. If two instincts are in conflict, and there is nothing in
a creature’s mind except those two instincts, obviously the stronger of the
two must win. But at those moments when we are most conscious of the Moral
Law, it usually seems to be telling us to side with the weaker of the two
impulses. You probably want to be safe much more than you want to help the
man who is drowning: but the Moral Law tells you to help him all the same.
And surely it often tells us to try to make the right impulse stronger than
it naturally is? I mean, we often feel it our duty to stimulate the herd
instinct, by waking up our imaginations and arousing our pity and so on, so
as to get up enough steam for doing the right thing. But clearly we are not
acting from instinct when we set about making an instinct stronger than it
is. The thing that says to you, “Your herd instinct is asleep. Wake it up,”
cannot itself be the herd instinct. The thing that tells you which note on
the piano needs to be played louder cannot itself be that note.
Here is a third way of seeing it If the Moral Law was one of our
instincts, we ought to be able to point to some one impulse inside us which
was always what we call “good,” always in agreement with the rule of right
behaviour. But you cannot. There is none of our impulses which the Moral Law
may not sometimes tell us to suppress, and none which it may not sometimes
tell us to encourage. It is a mistake to think that some of our impulses-
say mother love or patriotism-are good, and others, like sex or the fighting
instinct, are bad. All we mean is that the occasions on which the fighting
instinct or the sexual desire need to be restrained are rather more frequent
than those for restraining mother love or patriotism. But there are
situations in which it is the duty of a married man to encourage his sexual
impulse and of a soldier to encourage the fighting instinct. There are also
occasions on which a mother’s love for her own children or a man’s love for
his own country have to be suppressed or they will lead to unfairness
towards other people’s children or countries. Strictly speaking, there are
no such things as good and bad impulses. Think once again of a piano. It has
not got two kinds of notes on it, the “right” notes and the “wrong” ones.
Every single note is right at one time and wrong at another. The Moral Law
is not any one instinct or any set of instincts: it is something which makes
a kind of tune (the tune we call goodness or right conduct) by directing the
instincts.
 
Societies and civilizations could not exist without the social contract, and it still exists in every society today, just some are more complicated than others.
Continued: (I hope this doen’t violate forum rules)

Other people wrote to me saying, “Isn’t what you call the Moral Law
just a social convention, something that is put into us by education?” I
think there is a misunderstanding here. The people who ask that question are
usually taking it for granted that if we have learned a thing from parents
and teachers, then that thing must be merely a human invention. But, of
course, that is not so. We all learned the multiplication table at school. A
child who grew up alone on a desert island would not know it. But surely it
does not follow that the multiplication table is simply a human convention,
something human beings have made up for themselves and might have made
different if they had liked? I fully agree that we learn the Rule of Decent
Behaviour from parents and teachers, and friends and books, as we learn
everything else. But some of the things we learn are mere conventions which
might have been different-we learn to keep to the left of the road, but it
might just as well have been the rule to keep to the right-and others of
them, like mathematics, are real truths. The question is to which class the
Law of Human Nature belongs.
There are two reasons for saying it belongs to the same class as
mathematics. The first is, as I said in the first chapter, that though there
are differences between the moral ideas of one time or country and those of
another, the differences are not really very great-not nearly so great as
most people imagine-and you can recognise the same law running through them
all: whereas mere conventions, like the rule of the road or the kind of
clothes people wear, may differ to any extent. The other reason is this.
When you think about these differences between the morality of one people
and another, do you think that the morality of one people is ever better or
worse than that of another? Have any of the changes been improvements? If
not, then of course there could never be any moral progress. Progress means
not just changing, but changing for the better. If no set of moral ideas
were truer or better than any other, there would be no sense in preferring
civilised morality to savage morality, or Christian morality to Nazi
morality. In fact, of course, we all do believe that some moralities are
better than others. We do believe that some of the people who tried to
change the moral ideas of their own age were what we would call Reformers or
Pioneers-people who understood morality better than their neighbours did.
Very well then. The moment you say that one set of moral ideas can be better
than another, you are, in fact, measuring them both by a standard, saying
that one of them conforms to that standard more nearly than the other. But
the standard that measures two things is something different from either.
You are, in fact, comparing them both with some Real Morality, admitting
that there is such a thing as a real Right, independent of what people
think, and that some people’s ideas get nearer to that real Right than
others. Or put it this way. If your moral ideas can be truer, and those of
the Nazis less true, there must be something-some Real Morality-for them to
be true about. The reason why your idea of New York can be truer or less
true than mine is that New York is a real place, existing quite apart from
what either of us thinks. If when each of us said “New York” each meant
merely “The town I am imagining in my own head,” how could one of us have
truer ideas than the other? There would be no question of truth or falsehood
at all. In the same way, if the Rule of Decent Behaviour meant simply
“whatever each nation happens to approve,” there would be no sense in saying
that any one nation had ever been more correct in its approval than any
other; no sense in saying that the world could ever grow morally better or
morally worse.
I conclude then, that though the differences between people’s ideas of
Decent Behaviour often make you suspect that there is no real natural Law of
Behaviour at all, yet the things we are bound to think about these
differences really prove just the opposite. But one word before I end. I
have met people who exaggerate the differences, because they have not
distinguished between differences of morality and differences of belief
about facts. For example, one man said to me, “Three hundred years ago
people in England were putting witches to death. Was that what you call the
Rule of Human Nature or Right Conduct?” But surely the reason we do not
execute witches is that we do not believe there are such things. If we
did-if we really thought that there were people going about who had sold
themselves to the devil and received supernatural powers from him in return
and were using these powers to kill their neighbours or drive them mad or
bring bad weather, surely we would all agree that if anyone deserved the
death penalty, then these filthy quislings did. There is no difference of
moral principle here: the difference is simply about matter of fact. It may
be a great advance in knowledge not to believe in witches: there is no moral
advance in not executing them when you do not think they are there. You
would not call a man humane for ceasing to set mousetraps if he did so
because he believed there were no mice in the house.
 
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