buddhism

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Oh one last reference as it is the best one on Orthodoxy:
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www.ourlifeinchrist.com
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This is an Orthodox Internet radio site. It is very easy to listen too as it is produced by two former Protestants who are lay people. They cover all of the hot button topics though Buddhism isn’t really on the front burner and not mentioned. But it is a good place to learn about Ancient Christianity and how it is alive today.
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I just listened to the first program on Revelations. These guys are really fun to listen to. I am going to continue to listen to the archived shows and slowly work my way through them.

I think Ajahan Brahm’s talks are in much the same vein. Both handle serious subjects with light hearts.

You might find it interesting to look subjects up on Access to Insight’s Index and compare Othodox Buddhism (as some call Theravada ) to Orthodox Christian Teachings as well as to what you learned through Nichiren Buddhism.

accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html

It should be an interesting three way comparison.

I figure there is as much chance of me becoming Orthodox Christian as you becoming Theravada Buddhist. 😃
 
notself said:
I just listened to the first program on Revelations. These guys are really fun to listen to. I am going to continue to listen to the archived shows and slowly work my way through them.
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Yes, They aqre cool guys

I think Ajahan Brahm’s talks are in much the same vein. Both handle serious subjects with light hearts.

You might find it interesting to look subjects up on Access to Insight’s Index and compare Othodox Buddhism (as some call Theravada ) to Orthodox Christian Teachings as well as to what you learned through Nichiren Buddhism.

accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html

It should be an interesting three way comparison.<<

Will do.
notself said:
I figure there is as much chance of me becoming Orthodox Christian as you becoming Theravada Buddhist. 😃
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I think when people face death they are more likely to find God then they are to begin a Buddhist Practice especially if they are like me and have already been there.
 
Marc1152 said:
I think when people face death they are more likely to find God then they are to begin a Buddhist Practice especially if they are like me and have already been there.
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Well, I had a partial mastectomy for cancer last Thursday so I am certainly contemplating death in a more direct way than I ever have.

I am so extremely grateful to have found Theravada Buddhism. I may have cancer, I may have a very unpleasant future ahead of me with radiation and chemotherapy, but I assure you, I am not suffering.

I remain a Theravada Buddhist. The contemplation of my mortality has only deepened my practice.
 
notself said:
Well, I had a partial mastectomy for cancer last Thursday so I am certainly contemplating death in a more direct way than I ever have…
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Oh my… God bless you for your courage !!!

Plus, I thought you were a guy for some reason. Forgive me.
I am so extremely grateful to have found Theravada Buddhism. I may have cancer, I may have a very unpleasant future ahead of me with radiation and chemotherapy, but I assure you, I am not suffering.<<
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By no means do I think Buddhism is worthless. I have seen people who were going through terrible experiences have a strong center in their practice the enabled them to get through it.

I remain a Theravada Buddhist. The contemplation of my mortality has only deepened my practice<

No doubt…

Personally I am glad to be a person again and not an illusion or no self or a bundle of Karma. I am happy to find a practice that goes beyond mere understanding or a paradigm to live within but something that touches on the entire truth.

I lost my dear wife last year. I converted several years before but somehow I had an inkling that rough times were ahead. I told the Priest that I was a “Pre-cancer convert” :). I was getting straight with God before a disaster hit. Thank God. Buddhism would not have gotten me through it. Your mileage may vary

Marc
 
Marc1152 said:
I lost my dear wife last year. I converted several years before but somehow I had an inkling that rough times were ahead. I told the Priest that I was a “Pre-cancer convert” :). I was getting straight with God before a disaster hit. Thank God. Buddhism would not have gotten me through it. Your mileage may vary

Marc
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I am saddened to hear of your loss. I can’t even imagine losing my husband. I am confident your faith is helping you through.

It is strange how our mileage does vary. 😉 That is why it is so important that people not just go through the motions when it comes to faith. Christians who are Sunday Christians, Buddhists who are Joss Stick Buddhists are cheating themselves of what is good and true.

Isn’t that why we each changed religions? We wouldn’t settle for less or go through the motions.

We are two very fortunate people.

Metta
notself
 
notself said:
Isn’t that why we each changed religions? We wouldn’t settle for less or go through the motions.

We are two very fortunate people.

Metta
notself
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Well…Except that you are going to hell and I’m not…

Kidding !!! Kidding !!! Just Kidding
 
notself said:
I never thought of it that way. 😛

Of course Buddhist heaven is impermanent too. So would that also be Purgatory? 😉
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Well, in a sense isn’t the whole world of samsara Purgatory for Buddhists?

Edwin
 
notself said:
I will be going to a Buddhist hell and as you know, Buddhist hells are impermanent. 😃
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Buddhist Hells are far nastier places ( and there are lots more of them. Google on “Avichi Hell”) then the Orthdox Christian version. We say heaven and hell are the same place. Those who are suffering are at a great distence from God and the Saints and faithful are up close.
 
notself said:
I never thought of it that way. 😛

Of course Buddhist heaven is impermanent too. So would that also be Purgatory? 😉
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There is no concept of Purgatory in Orthodox Christianity. It is a late day addtion by the Latin Church only.

Orthdox Christianity would also say that we work things out here on Earth. What is left undone can be healed by God’s mercy and also the prayers of those still alive.
 
Marc1152 said:
Buddhist Hells are far nastier places ( and there are lots more of them. Google on “Avichi Hell”) then the Orthdox Christian version. We say heaven and hell are the same place. Those who are suffering are at a great distence from God and the Saints and faithful are up close.
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Although Buddhist hells are very interesting places, the paintings of Pieter Bruegle the Younger and Hieronymus Bosch can probably top even Buddhist hells for shear inventiveness. 😛
 
Marc1152 said:
Buddhist Hells are far nastier places ( and there are lots more of them. Google on “Avichi Hell”) then the Orthdox Christian version. We say heaven and hell are the same place. Those who are suffering are at a great distence from God and the Saints and faithful are up close.
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Marc,

That is indeed the teaching of certain theologians in the Eastern Christian tradition, but it is it really official doctrine? Is it reflected in popular piety?

I remember reading (in a book by the Romanian starets Cleopa) a story of a monk who was visited by his friend who had abandoned the monastery and gone to hell. He asked his friend for a glimpse of hell, and was told that the sight would be too horrible for him–then for the ability to hear the sounds of hell, but that too was too much for a mortal ear. Finally he asked for a whiff of the stench of hell–his friend waved his robe and such a horrible smell came forth that the monk fell down unconscious, and the whole monastery became uninhabitable–the monks had to leave and live in the forest for quite a while.

I suspect that this is more typical of how most Orthodox Christians historically have thought about hell than are the speculations of St. Maximus or the modern explanations of Kallistos Ware (much as I prefer these latter).

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Marc,

That is indeed the teaching of certain theologians in the Eastern Christian tradition, but it is it really official doctrine? Is it reflected in popular piety?

I remember reading (in a book by the Romanian starets Cleopa) a story of a monk who was visited by his friend who had abandoned the monastery and gone to hell. He asked his friend for a glimpse of hell, and was told that the sight would be too horrible for him–then for the ability to hear the sounds of hell, but that too was too much for a mortal ear. Finally he asked for a whiff of the stench of hell–his friend waved his robe and such a horrible smell came forth that the monk fell down unconscious, and the whole monastery became uninhabitable–the monks had to leave and live in the forest for quite a while.

I suspect that this is more typical of how most Orthodox Christians historically have thought about hell than are the speculations of St. Maximus or the modern explanations of Kallistos Ware (much as I prefer these latter).

Edwin
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Edwin,

I don’t see how the picture you presented, is inherently contradictory to the idea that Marc presented.
 
Ahimsa said:
Edwin,

I don’t see how the picture you presented, is inherently contradictory to the idea that Marc presented.
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Perhaps you’re right. But he seemed to be implying that the Orthodox view of hell was not “nasty” and did not have sensory horrors such as those in Buddhist (or, as notself notes, Western Christian) versions of hell.

I agree of course that the more mystical/philosophical approach and the vivid sensory language of Elder Cleopa can complement each other. But Marc seemed to be setting one over against the other.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Marc,

That is indeed the teaching of certain theologians in the Eastern Christian tradition, but it is it really official doctrine? Is it reflected in popular piety?
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That is a solid doctrine of the Eastern Church .
The only variation is that some thing you acend to the Heavens through “Toll Houses” where demons challange you on various failings you may have. That is more popular piety than a dogma.

You die and take your place and await the final Judgement.

I remember reading (in a book by the Romanian starets Cleopa) a story of a monk who was visited by his friend who had abandoned the monastery and gone to hell. He asked his friend for a glimpse of hell, and was told that the sight would be too horrible for him–then for the ability to hear the sounds of hell, but that too was too much for a mortal ear. Finally he asked for a whiff of the stench of hell–his friend waved his robe and such a horrible smell came forth that the monk fell down unconscious, and the whole monastery became uninhabitable–the monks had to leave and live in the forest for quite a while.

I suspect that this is more typical of how most Orthodox Christians historically have thought about hell than are the speculations of St. Maximus or the modern explanations of Kallistos Ware (much as I prefer these latter).

Edwin

You may have misunderstood. The people cast away from the presence of God are indeed suffering but it is a suffering of regret, the “gnashing of teeth” and terrilbe wailing etc. This is due to not being with God, away from his light and love and cast into darkness… I dont really know how it smells there.
 
Marc1152 said:
You may have misunderstood. The people cast away from the presence of God are indeed suffering but it is a suffering of regret, the “gnashing of teeth” and terrilbe wailing etc. This is due to not being with God, away from his light and love and cast into darkness… I dont really know how it smells there.
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It seems to me that if a person regrets not being with God, then there is something of repentence there–
And if there is repentence, then I believe that person would not be in hell, since God does not send anyone to hell—we send ourselves and I think the way to get there is to be completely unrepentant about something in our lives that we know is abhorent to God…
 
Rocky said:
It seems to me that if a person regrets not being with God, then there is something of repentence there–
And if there is repentence, then I believe that person would not be in hell, since God does not send anyone to hell—we send ourselves and I think the way to get there is to be completely unrepentant about something in our lives that we know is abhorent to God…
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I agree with you. The way I picture hell is this. And I believe it falls under the Catholic umbrella. We know that God is Yahweh, He Who Is. Or I AM WHO AM.

Exodus 3
14 God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.

In other words, God is all existence. Not all creation, but more than that. All which exists.

This is confirmed elsewhere when the Apostle says:

Acts Of Apostles 17
28 For in him we live, and move, and are; as some also of your own poets said: For we are also his offspring.

and:

Colossians 1
16 For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him.

The Scriptures also say that God is everywhere and we can’t escape His Presence:

Psalms 138 6 Thy knowledge is become wonderful to me: it is high, and I cannot reach to it.7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy face? 8 If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I descend into hell, thou art present.

So, if God is everywhere, including in Hell, then those in Hell are not in anguish because of God’s absence, but because of God’s Presence. They have tried all their lives to get away from Him and in the end, they find that they will never be able to flee His Presence.

In a sense, Heaven is Heaven for those who love God. Whereas Heaven is Hell for those who don’t.

And that explains another dilemma which confused me for a long time:

Job 1
6 Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them.

Satan’s presence with the Angels.

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
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