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glimmer
Guest
Because somebody you respect SAYS they are??? Sorry, but I will do my own checking when it comes to eternal consequences. I work with academics and I know they cancel each other out all the time.
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Nullasalus
Guest
The problem with buddhism is that it’s hardly a religion - it’s more of a philosophy. As a result, there are various versions of it, just as there’s a plethora of ‘christian philosophies’, while an individual christian will not (and cannot) accept all of them.
I do believe that there’s a lot of value in buddhism, and someone could conceivably call themselves both a Catholic/christian and (to a point) a buddhist. The difference would be that some sacrifices would need to be made with buddhism; exterminating the self is not the goal of christianity - indeed, the ultimate ‘ends’ of buddhism run counter to the grounding of the entire faith. However, being self-aware, recognizing the roots of desires, and extinguishing the bad ones… those are very compatible with Catholicism.
Think of it this way. Aristotle, Socrates, Plato - all three were pagan. But their systems of thought were not just admired by many prominent Catholics, but practically absorbed whole. Buddhism is similar, except that other religions have already absorbed it.
I do believe that there’s a lot of value in buddhism, and someone could conceivably call themselves both a Catholic/christian and (to a point) a buddhist. The difference would be that some sacrifices would need to be made with buddhism; exterminating the self is not the goal of christianity - indeed, the ultimate ‘ends’ of buddhism run counter to the grounding of the entire faith. However, being self-aware, recognizing the roots of desires, and extinguishing the bad ones… those are very compatible with Catholicism.
Think of it this way. Aristotle, Socrates, Plato - all three were pagan. But their systems of thought were not just admired by many prominent Catholics, but practically absorbed whole. Buddhism is similar, except that other religions have already absorbed it.
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glimmer
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Ah, did God call us to a philosophy? It sometimes seems inescapable that we have them, but I believe this is part of the spiritual mixture that God deplores. The way of purity is one of continual death and resurrection, as we are displaced with the life of Christ. Yes, I would urge us to all be Christocentric. He is both the means and the goal.
I may be misunderstanding you here, so I will only mention this and let you apply it as it seems fit. Jesus said:
Mat 10:39 “He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.”
The word for life here is psuche–an important distinction from *pneuma *which is used elsewhere to denote the spirit. *Pneuma *denotes the spirit, whereas *psuche *denotes the soul. The distinction is often glossed over and the words *soul *and *spirit *are often used interchangeably, though they really should not be.
Heb 4:12 “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul psuche] and spirit pneuma], and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
*Psuche *is the root word from which we derive *psychology *and it represents the soul–or more explicitly, the soul-life, that is, the self-will. A few may give up biological life zoe] for love or honor, but who by willing it can give up the soul-life/self-will? Such an act is self-contradictory (no pun intended). Only the power of God can deliver us from our selves. God’s goal in emptying us is that we might be filled with Christ:
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Why not ask for a deeper awareness of Christ who alone can discern where our wrong desires need to be extinguished? After all, who is the author and finisher of your faith (Heb. 12:2)–you or God?
Certainly common sense and even uncommon sense is to be admired. However, this absorption is still seen by many as a corrupting force in Christianity rather than an asset. The more centered we become on our own intellectual ability to figure out the things of God, the less centered on Christ we are.
What tree did our first parents partake of? The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That has been humanity’s fall–“I shall ascend to the highest and become as God. I shall discern for *myself *what is good and what is evil.” This is the beginning of human ethics, opinions, and pluralistic truths. We know many truths, but there is one Truth, unknowable by sheer intellectual will power. “Taste and see, the Lord is good. (Psalm 34:8)” The spirit–not the mind–is the proper organ with which to taste Christ. You will learn to discern Him by His flavor as you learn to discern salt and sweet by experience rather than by analysis.
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Nullasalus
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When I say philosophy for Buddhism, I’m not talking about the very formal logic-based philosophy of nowadays. More of a method and attitude about life. Nothing more. Though I have to say, the ‘continual death and resurrection’ part sounds very buddhist itself.
Now you’ve lost me, and this is where theology and some types of philosophy come in. Are you saying that God’s plan is to make us all identical? I believe that the plan and power of God is to deliver us from evil and from sin. Not that what constitutes our ‘selves’ are utterly destroyed.
Well, God helps those who help themselves. All we do, we do through God - but we still need to do something. It’s our responsibility.
To the latter, not necessarily - I don’t think Thomas Aquinas lost sight of Christ. To the former - the corrupting force - absolutely. Buddhism, especially in its appearance in the west, does have an extremely shallow, new-agey interpretation. Frankly, most people’s takes on it are takes I personally reject.
All I intended to do was point out that buddhism has various forms, some more in conflict with Catholicism than others - and that, in my humble opinion, there do exist some basic concepts in the philosophy that are entirely compatible with catholicism. At the same time, I stress that not every form of buddhism is compatible, and that not all of even distilled buddhism is compatible. I’m not sure what your particular take on salvation is, but ‘resurrection of the body and life everlasting’ implies to me a continued, everlasting subjective experience. Buddhism, as near as I can tell, seeks the extinguishment of the self. Not even ‘removal of the self to be filled with God’, but what we would call oblivion.
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inJESUS
Guest
if not mistaken, in Buddhism the center is “myself” whereas in Christianity the center is God. This alone is a huge difference and can deter the person from absolute surrender to God by giving importance to his powers.
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Caesar
Guest
Buddhism believes that salvation is the freeing of yourself from the cycle of reincarnation. (Nirvana).
Christianianity believes that salvation is eternity with God, free from sin.
Buddhism is agnostic. There are no creator gods, although many have risen to the rank of gods through reincarnation as higher beings.
Christianity teaches that there is One God in Three Persons, Creator of Heaven and Earth.
Christianianity believes that salvation is eternity with God, free from sin.
Buddhism is agnostic. There are no creator gods, although many have risen to the rank of gods through reincarnation as higher beings.
Christianity teaches that there is One God in Three Persons, Creator of Heaven and Earth.
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glimmer
Guest
I have been vaguely accused of being a Buddhist myself, but it’s not quite accurate, I suspect. Perhaps you will find this Merton quote from Bread in the Wilderness enlightening. I’m not really sure how far he intended to take Buddhism, but some say he wanted to join all religions. Others say no.
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". . . Nature was symbolic. But the progressive degradation of man after the fall led the Gentiles further and further from this truth. Nature became opaque. The nations were no longer able to penetrate the meaning of the world they lived in. . . .
"Thus the beautiful living things which were all about us on this earth and which were the windows of heaven to every man, became infected with original sin. The symbolic universe, which had now become a labyrinth of myths and magic rites, the dwelling place of a million hostile spirits, ceased altogether to speak to most men of God and told them only of themselves. The symbols which would have raised man above himself to God now became myths and as such they were simply projections of man’s own biological drives. . . .
"The corruption of cosmic symbolism can be understood by a simple comparison. It was like what happens to a window when a room ceases to receive light from the outside. As long as it is daylight, we see through our windowpane. When night comes, we can still see through it, if there is no light inside our room. When our lights go on, then we only see ourselves and our own room reflected in the pane. Adam in Eden could see through creation as through a window. God shone through the windowpane as bright as the light of the sun. Abraham and the patriarchs and David and the holy men of Israel–the chosen race that preserved intact the testimony of God–could still see through the window as one looks out by night from a darkened room and sees the moon and stars. But the Gentiles had begun to forget the sky, and to light lamps of their own, and presently it seemed to them that the reflection of their own room in the window was the “world beyond.” They began to worship what they themselves were doing. And what they were doing was too often an abomination. Nevertheless, something of the original purity of natural revelation remained in the great religions of the East. It is found in the Upanishads in the Baghavad Gita. But the pessimism of Buddha was a reaction against the degeneration of nature by polytheism. Henceforth for the mysticisms of the East, nature would no longer be symbol but illusion. Buddha knew too well that the reflections in the window were only projections of our own existence and our own desires, but did not know that this was a window, and that there could be sunlight outside the glass."No. Our personalities remain, but our self-will goes.
It can as simple as asking God every day to be our life and living.
There is a story I heard-- I don’t know if it’s true, but I partly believe it-- That after Aquinas wrote his Summa Theologica, he was in the middle of Mass one day and had a heavenly vision. He never wrote another word again. One’s intellect does not shine when standing before God revealed.
Which reminds me–you are Catholic, are you not? Do Catholics no longer read such works as might translate them into the deep things of God as they used to? Works by Fenelon, de Caussade, St. John of the Cross, Bro. Lawrence? So far, I have read almost nothing in this entire forum about such people save for St. John of the X. You can find many of their works on the Internet and at Amazon.
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Nullasalus
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Only in the most fallen sense of the word. I’m doing a lot of reading lately and I know where my sympathies ultimately lie (and where reason ultimately places me), but I need to act on it. Or should, anyway.
Anyway, the reflections were enlightening. I just wanted to highlight an aspect of Buddhism that often gets misunderstood or overlooked. I have my own problems with the religion/philosophy - I just think some good can be salvaged from it. Nothing more.
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glimmer
Guest
At least you did not bite my head off like so many in the forums and for that, I thank you.
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glimmer
Guest
We can learn something from all cultures and even atheism and polytheism, but do we need to learn a *technique *thereby to continue in the faith? Why do we need to know how to breathe in order to focus on the task at hand? Is prayer a labor? I think we make it so. Prayer, initiated by God, is not a labor or a learned task. When you allow God to make you into whatever He wants, He begins to breathe Himself into you so that you cannot help but pray at all times and in all places.
The Catholic Church stresses Scripture and Tradition while traditional Protestantism stresses sola scriptura. As a non-Catholic, my focus differs a bit from classical Protestantism in that I believe in *both *Scripture and Holy Spirit–and for me, the Person of Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Church rather than scripture.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
This is abiding in the Vine. This is how you shut out the noise of our culture and live in God. You might want to check out this article by John Deher on Centering Prayer.
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Martin_Le_Fay
Guest
It may be that there are elements of Buddhism that can be used to enrich one’s life in Christ. I think it’s foolish to deny that there are many elements from the pagan world that have, when brought into Christianity, enriched it. Augustine’s City of God would not exist but for Plato and Aquinas’ Summa Theologica would not exist but for Aristotle.
I think we need to understand that when dealing with non-Christian elements,
(1)On the Way to Jesus Christ. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.
I think we need to understand that when dealing with non-Christian elements,
In Buddhism, we have a theology that is essentially without God. It’s foolish to equate the Buddha with a god that is worshiped when the Buddha himself explicitly denies being anything like a god or an angel. It is an essentially atheistic worldview. Its end is salvation through personal indifference. We might be able to cherry-pick certain fundamental truths out of it such as self-denial and compassion, but the ends of the two religions are really very different.
(1)On the Way to Jesus Christ. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.
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Sixtus
Guest
I stand by what I said. The priest in question is a fantastic homiliest. He uses Buddhist philosphy when preaching about Christ. Everyone listens everyone hears everyone remembers.
All his homilies are on a philosphical level so that they leave you with some profound truth about Christ and His love of humanity and our duty to try to love as He did both His Father and our fellow man.
In other Churches, I have over the years heard so many homilies where you fall asleep or just cannot recall 10 minutes after Mass what it was all about. This Priest is fantastic. He is also a very loving caring man, in the spirit of Buddhism. He often cites the words of St Augustine ‘love and do what you will’. That is also the spirit ot Buddhism.
I suspect there will be a lot of Buddhists taking their place at the Banquet of the Lamb ahead of a lot of Catholics.
Perhaps if he was a run of the mill, boring homiliest who conveys nothing, that would be preferable to the criticisms. Jesus said ‘there are many rooms in my Fathers house. If it were not so, I would have told you so’.
This Priest has so much charasma and he is actually quite shy underneath it all. He is also without doubt a very holy man.
Anyone who decries him I will call that man a hypocrite
All his homilies are on a philosphical level so that they leave you with some profound truth about Christ and His love of humanity and our duty to try to love as He did both His Father and our fellow man.
In other Churches, I have over the years heard so many homilies where you fall asleep or just cannot recall 10 minutes after Mass what it was all about. This Priest is fantastic. He is also a very loving caring man, in the spirit of Buddhism. He often cites the words of St Augustine ‘love and do what you will’. That is also the spirit ot Buddhism.
I suspect there will be a lot of Buddhists taking their place at the Banquet of the Lamb ahead of a lot of Catholics.
Perhaps if he was a run of the mill, boring homiliest who conveys nothing, that would be preferable to the criticisms. Jesus said ‘there are many rooms in my Fathers house. If it were not so, I would have told you so’.
This Priest has so much charasma and he is actually quite shy underneath it all. He is also without doubt a very holy man.
Anyone who decries him I will call that man a hypocrite
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fin
Guest
…because Christ said, whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers you do it unto Me.I
I suspect there will be a lot of Buddhists taking their place at the Banquet of the Lamb ahead of a lot of Catholics.
Buddhists are into compassion and caring for the least, from what i’ve been seeing
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Ahimsa
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Sure, Buddhism and Catholicism are very compatible. Ever hear of Cardinal* Zen*?? If he becomes Pope, we would have the first “Pope Zen”. He and the Dalai Lama would get along famously.
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JesuXPIPassio
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For more insight into this, check out John Paul II’s book *Crossing the Threshold *of Hope. The late Holy Father wrote that book himself back in the 1990s, and it covers his views on Buddhism.
You can find PDF files of it online that you can download for free. Send me a private message if you want the web address. I’d post it up here but I don’t have it with me here and now.
A key phrase from the book has him saying that Buddhism is essentially an atheistic religion.
If I can offer my two cents, you can’t fully integrate pure Buddhism with any form of Christianity. There’s nothing wrong with taking some aspects of Buddhism and wrapping it to fit Catholic beliefs and practises. If I’m not mistaken, Saint Teresa of Avila took some to complement her spirituality. Using some Buddhist practises like meditative breathing can very well help Catholic prayer. They use prayer beads, as do we (the Rosary and the Prayer Rope) – historically, I’m guessing that they’ve been using prayer beads centuries before we even had. We started with Saint Pachomius in the fourth century. Does anyone happen to know when the Buddhists began using prayer beads?
But as for having pure Buddhism mixed with pure Christianity, it’s just like (pardon the clichè) mixing oil with water.
Take for example the simple basis for either religion. For Buddhism, it’s that life sucks, so get life to stop sucking. For Christianity, it’s to love God; Christianity by the way isn’t very concerned with ending suffering (Jesus didn’t come down from the Cross – we’re more about enduring through it). The aim differs greatly. Of course though, a lot of principles are shared – non-violence is taken in both religions, though it varies exactly how. Christianity is willing to fight when it’s needed. Interestingly, both Christianity and Buddhism were fought against by the Communists.
You can find PDF files of it online that you can download for free. Send me a private message if you want the web address. I’d post it up here but I don’t have it with me here and now.
A key phrase from the book has him saying that Buddhism is essentially an atheistic religion.
If I can offer my two cents, you can’t fully integrate pure Buddhism with any form of Christianity. There’s nothing wrong with taking some aspects of Buddhism and wrapping it to fit Catholic beliefs and practises. If I’m not mistaken, Saint Teresa of Avila took some to complement her spirituality. Using some Buddhist practises like meditative breathing can very well help Catholic prayer. They use prayer beads, as do we (the Rosary and the Prayer Rope) – historically, I’m guessing that they’ve been using prayer beads centuries before we even had. We started with Saint Pachomius in the fourth century. Does anyone happen to know when the Buddhists began using prayer beads?
But as for having pure Buddhism mixed with pure Christianity, it’s just like (pardon the clichè) mixing oil with water.
Take for example the simple basis for either religion. For Buddhism, it’s that life sucks, so get life to stop sucking. For Christianity, it’s to love God; Christianity by the way isn’t very concerned with ending suffering (Jesus didn’t come down from the Cross – we’re more about enduring through it). The aim differs greatly. Of course though, a lot of principles are shared – non-violence is taken in both religions, though it varies exactly how. Christianity is willing to fight when it’s needed. Interestingly, both Christianity and Buddhism were fought against by the Communists.
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ahimsaman72
Guest
No, Buddhists don’t worship Buddha. He was a man only, son of a clan king and queen. There are legendary stories about his birth such as him being born from her side and taking seven steps, but of course this is legend only.
No, Buddhists don’t worship a hindu god along with Buddha. No gods are worshipped. Buddhists are primarily agnostic with no defined beliefs about a Creator.
By the way, a good resource of many Buddhist traditions with excellent, in-depth studies can be found at www.buddhanet.net
Peace…
- Status