Buddhist influences

[EmilyCatholic]

Thanks guys,
My basic fears have been confirmed and I am glad I refused Mindfulness. What struck me was basically quite obvious-it’s Buddhist and I’m a Christian.
But deeper than that is as has been demonstrated here: that in Eastern Meditation, the focus is on “self” whereas in Christian Meditation the focus is on God. And I’d rather focus on God than on myself.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thanks guys,
My basic fears have been confirmed and I am glad I refused Mindfulness. What struck me was basically quite obvious-it’s Buddhist and I’m a Christian.
But deeper than that is as has been demonstrated here: that in Eastern Meditation, the focus is on “self” whereas in Christian Meditation the focus is on God. And I’d rather focus on God than on myself.

Why are you refusing Mindfulness?

Jesus said to “Watch and Pray.”

To watch is to watch everything, but mostly, our thoughts. It is being midfully aware of our thoughts and that which we react to.

When we watch, we are being mindful of all the material world around us, but also our spiritual being, and the what comes into our minds, and ends up connecting to our hearts, or souls.

Jim

 

[Patrick_Hughes]

I don’t believe it is right to look upon things like Yoga or “Buddhist meditation” as merely relaxation techniques or forms of exercise. These things are inherently religious in their nature, and the religions they belong to are not the one true religion. It is teetering on blasphemy to engage in them, even if it is out of ignorance. I think of people I know who consider themselves Catholics (though I’d consider them lapsed) who consult their horoscopes. I try to convince them that this is a grave mistake. To even entertain the idea that such a thing would hold any weight would be to admit that there is another party at work besides free will and God. That is contradictory to everything we believe as Catholics. They then try to convince me it’s just a bit of fun. Well, like Rev. Hugh Thwaites said “childish pranks may end in tragedy.” I once knew a catholic who had a dream catcher hanging above her bed, but a crucifix was no where to be found in the room. This is the type of thing that modernism has done to our practice. I would urge you not to engage in rituals from other religions. If you need to meditate, you should meditate over the rosary, or the scripture. If you need a way to relax there are plenty of non-religious physical activities you can try. Eternity is a long time to spend away from Jesus just because you found it relaxing sitting cross legged on the floor. I’m not saying that is what will happen. I just would not run the risk.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, I do Yoga exercise and Contemplative prayer and Meditation and have been doing so for over 30 years.

I don’t get involved with reading horoscopes or New Age ideas.

Anyone who is Christ centered, is going to be fed and transformed by Him, not by the method of prayer or exercise they do.

Contemplative prayer merely means, we open ourselves to God. Contemplation comes from him.

Jim

 

[Patrick_Hughes]

Well, I do Yoga exercise and Contemplative prayer and Meditation and have been doing so for over 30 years.

I don’t get involved with reading horoscopes or New Age ideas.

Anyone who is Christ centered, is going to be fed and transformed by Him, not by the method of prayer or exercise they do.

Contemplative prayer merely means, we open ourselves to God. Contemplation comes from him.

Jim

I think your intentions are correct, but your practice is off. Man is both a physical and spiritual being, so we need to pray physically as well as with our soul. That we can agree on. But the form that prayer takes is very important. I prefer my prayer to take the form of Catholic prayer, that is why I pray the rosary, that is why I attend mass, that is why I read scripture. To engage in a prayer that is associated with another religion is incorrect, I feel. Even if you’re “Christ centered” the acts that you are doing are not. Yoga has deep spiritual meaning in Hindu culture, it is not just physical. To say that you can adopt prayer forms from other faiths and make them your own Christian prayer is to say that the prayer provided to you by God and by Mary and by the Church is not enough, and perhaps not correct. Where does that road lead? Does it lead to incorporating morals from other faiths? Does it lead to worshiping other gods along side Christ? I’m not saying that is your intention. It is probably far from it! But that is where this modernist view on religion may take us. It cuts too close to irreverence for me. You may scoff, and think that I’m too orthodox. I just believe to practice Yoga, which has deep rooted Hindu spiritual meaning, is blatant pantheism. Yoga is the best known practice of Hindu spirituality, therefore Yoga is not compatible with Christian values. I think this reasoning also applies to other forms of prayer that come from non-Christian religions. I trust Mary and her revelation to Saint Dominic, and believe that to throw away a single article of Catholic faith is to cast the whole thing aside. Again, I’m not saying that is your intention. Just don’t be fooled into thinking these practices have no religious aspects, or that you can change those aspects. Yoga (or Buddhist meditation) isn’t the same as riding a bike or hiking. It has strong non-Christian spiritual roots. Be careful. Still, you are welcome to do what you like, I pray for you only best.

“If you don’t behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you behave.”
― Fulton J. Sheen

 

[Rainaldo]

…and have been doing so for over 30 years.

And therefore…?

Contemplative prayer merely means, we open ourselves to God.

No.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Why are you refusing Mindfulness?

Jesus said to “Watch and Pray.”

To watch is to watch everything, but mostly, our thoughts. It is being midfully aware of our thoughts and that which we react to.

When we watch, we are being mindful of all the material world around us, but also our spiritual being, and the what comes into our minds, and ends up connecting to our hearts, or souls.

Jim

The difference between mindfulness and the Catholic sense of the present, what Fr. Jean Pierre de Caussade called “the sacrament of the present moment” in Abandonment to Divine Providence, is that mindfulness uses the senses, while we partake in “the sacrament of the present moment” by seeing with faith.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Corinthians 5:7[/BIBLEDRB]

It is the belief that what we are supposed to do right here, right now, is the will of the Lord for us, and it is in this “sacrament of the present moment” that we receive ALL (without exception) the graces that we need.

The difference between this and mindfulness becomes apparent in this passage from Abandonment to Divine Providence:

Every moment reveals God to us. Faith is our light in this life. By it we know the truth without seeing it, we are put in touch with what we cannot feel, recognize what we cannot see, and view the world stripped of all its superficialities. Faith unlocks God’s treasury. It is the key to all the vastness of his wisdom. The hollowness of all created things is disclosed by faith, and it is by faith that God makes his presence plain everywhere. Faith tears aside the veil so that we can see the everlasting truth.

As you can see, the Catholic sense of the present goes beyond mindfulness.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Patrick Hughes

I think your intentions are correct, but your practice is off.

Well, this is your flawed opinion.

Man is both a physical and spiritual being, so we need to pray physically as well as with our soul.

True, prayer is the raising of our heart and mind to God. The intention of our prayer is union with Him who dwells within us.

But the form that prayer takes is very important.

The form of prayer is not so important as the intention of our will. I can pray the Rosary, or just repeat the name of Jesus, but it’s the intention of our will which makes prayer. When we place ourselves in the presence of God and open ourselves to his grace, then the transformation of our soul takes place. It is God’s grace that transforms us, not the method of prayer we use.

I prefer my prayer to take the form of Catholic prayer, that is why I pray the rosary, that is why I attend mass, that is why I read scripture.

I too practice Catholic prayer. I don’t know why you would suggest that I’m not?

To engage in a prayer that is associated with another religion is incorrect, I feel.

And where did I suggest engaging in prayer of another religion?

Even if you’re “Christ centered” the acts that you are doing are not.

This is false. Christ is the center of a person’s life, the acts will be correct. Christ does not abandon those who seek a relationship with him.

Yoga has deep spiritual meaning in Hindu culture, it is not just physical.

Yoga practiced within the Hindu religion does, but yoga exercise in itself is separated from religion. There is no connection between the two unless the intention of the person’s will makes it so.

As a Catholic you should know this, because when we are accused of worshiping statues by fundamentalist, we know that it is not true. Buy you’re making a similar false accusation against those who do Yoga exercise.

To say that you can adopt prayer forms from other faiths and make them your own Christian prayer is to say that the prayer provided to you by God and by Mary and by the Church is not enough, and perhaps not correct.

Again what prayer form did I write about that is not Catholic?

You’re post has no connection to anything I wrote, other than your own misunderstanding.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And therefore…?

No.

Uh, yes it does. Contemplative prayer is not Contemplation. Contemplative prayer is a method, Contemplation is what God does within our being.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

+JMJ+

The difference between mindfulness and the Catholic sense of the present, what Fr. Jean Pierre de Caussade called “the sacrament of the present moment” in Abandonment to Divine Providence, is that mindfulness uses the senses, while we partake in “the sacrament of the present moment” by seeing with faith.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Corinthians 5:7[/BIBLEDRB]

It is the belief that what we are supposed to do right here, right now, is the will of the Lord for us, and it is in this “sacrament of the present moment” that we receive ALL (without exception) the graces that we need.

The difference between this and mindfulness becomes apparent in this passage from Abandonment to Divine Providence:

Every moment reveals God to us. Faith is our light in this life. By it we know the truth without seeing it, we are put in touch with what we cannot feel, recognize what we cannot see, and view the world stripped of all its superficialities. Faith unlocks God’s treasury. It is the key to all the vastness of his wisdom. The hollowness of all created things is disclosed by faith, and it is by faith that God makes his presence plain everywhere. Faith tears aside the veil so that we can see the everlasting truth.

As you can see, the Catholic sense of the present goes beyond mindfulness.

And what did I post that contradicts this?

Jesus own words, “Watch and Prayer.” To watch is to be mindful of our thoughts and actions. We are to watch our thoughts so as to not accept those which draw us away from being with Christ, which may be suggested by the evil one for that very purpose. This comes from the teachings of the Ancient Desert Fathers of the Church, who were the masters of contemplative prayer.

We are to watch our thoughts throughout our daily life, because thoughts will come into our mind which will stimulate the senses and distort our presence in the moment, which is where God is.

Jim

 

[OneSheep]

Thanks guys,
My basic fears have been confirmed and I am glad I refused Mindfulness. What struck me was basically quite obvious-it’s Buddhist and I’m a Christian.
But deeper than that is as has been demonstrated here: that in Eastern Meditation, the focus is on “self” whereas in Christian Meditation the focus is on God. And I’d rather focus on God than on myself.

Well, we are all created by God. Jesus is within all of us. So, I think a person can find God by focusing on the Self. In my own experience, when I strip away all the transitory stuff, the random values and so forth, like “I am a liberal” or “I am conservative” or “I am a businessman” or any of these things, putting away all the troubles and identities, there is nothing left to say but “I Am”. And I think we have all heard those words somewhere…

There is a place of resting with God’s presence, whether one thinks God is there or not.

I think we all have our ways of experiencing the divine, and why get into a “right way” or “wrong way” to do it? We have plenty of useful applications for “right” and “wrong” to guide our behaviors with one another, but our own relationships with God are more personal, and I don’t really think words can capture the experience or even the methodology. Do what works for you.

I don’t hear you caught up in the mode of condemning other people’s faiths or prayer styles. “I’d rather…” says it all, you are obviously a very prayerful person already. I am definitely with you on this.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

And what did I post that contradicts this?

Jesus own words, “Watch and Prayer.” To watch is to be mindful of our thoughts and actions. We are to watch our thoughts so as to not accept those which draw us away from being with Christ, which may be suggested by the evil one for that very purpose. This comes from the teachings of the Ancient Desert Fathers of the Church, who were the masters of contemplative prayer.

We are to watch our thoughts throughout our daily life, because thoughts will come into our mind which will stimulate the senses and distort our presence in the moment, which is where God is.

Jim

Is this Buddhist mindfulness?

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

The form of prayer is not so important as the intention of our will. I can pray the Rosary, or just repeat the name of Jesus, but it’s the intention of our will which makes prayer. When we place ourselves in the presence of God and open ourselves to his grace, then the transformation of our soul takes place. It is God’s grace that transforms us, not the method of prayer we use.

How could I have missed this.

This, this is the big flaw in your thinking, Jim.

The form of prayer is important in that it is also a manifestation of our following the Lord’s will. You can say the Rosary or just repeat the name of Jesus, but is it appropriate to focus on them in the middle of the Novus Ordo Mass? Is it appropriate to pray vocal prayer when you are being called to pure contemplative prayer, or vice versa? Is it appropriate to mix esoteric Eastern forms of meditation into the treasury of prayer our Holy Church has kept for us for two thousand years?

“It is God’s grace that transforms us, not the method of prayer we use.” Indeed, this is probably the most un-Catholic spirituality I have ever read or heard of, since our Catholic Faith has clearly declared throughout the ages:

Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

+JMJ+

Is this Buddhist mindfulness?

I don’t know that there’s any difference between religions on the meaning of mindfulness, and I’m not knowledgeable enough about Buddhism to know what Buddhist mindfulness means.

Mindfulness in the Christian sense, means being fully aware of your thoughts and actions.

It is doing as Jesus taught, “Watch and Pray.”

In prayer, thoughts are constantly coming into our consciousness drawing us away from Christ. To “watch,” as Christ taught, or to be mindful, if that terminology makes more sense, is to be aware of the thoughts that are about to pull you out of prayer and to just let them go. St. John of the Cross calls these unwanted distracting thoughts , “wanderings.”

But this practice of watching and praying is applied outside of prayer as well. Be aware of the thoughts that come into your mind, which can lead you to judgment of others, sensual stimulation or whatever. Watch what is happening around you and be mindful of what is real, or what your emotions are causing you to perceive, which may be distorted, and seek to see only what is true.

When you become aware of bad thoughts, let them go and turn to prayer. I have found that the Jesus Prayer really works well in this. "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.’

Jim

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Maybe it can be a two way street.

I was baptized as an infant and attended Catholic elementary school. But by the time I was in college I was smoking pot, getting drunk and enslaved to the seven deadly sins. My life was all selfishness and sin. It was my exploration into yoga and Buddhism that awakened my awarness of the reality of spirituality. I began to change my behavior. Then I discovered Thomas Merton, Basil Pennington and Bede Griffiths and came back into the Church, even attending daily Mass & Penance. They helped me to recognize the reality of spirituality in my home religion. They brought me to an encounter with the Lord. No longer just words or ideas, dogmas or “teachings” but something alive and real. So when I hear people speaking of the “danger” of Eastern spirituality or Centering Prayer it does not ring true to my experience at all. They all brought me to Christ for the first time and reconciled me with the Catholic Church.

We all have different journies and different starting places. I now have a deep appreciation of Buddhism and yoga even though I recognize their limitations and divergencies from Catholicism. Perhaps they can lead others astray but they led me back. God be Praised! Christ be thanked!