Buddihism and Christiantiy

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In Intro. To Logic class last semester My teacher started rambling on about how the Bible and Buddist writings (philosphy, something like that) was like 90% the same or something. Has anyone heard of this? What is the same? Is it really that much? I thought they didn’t beleive in any God? Are there any good books or websites addressing Buddism (sp?)? Thanks and God Bless.
 
I can help a little, my father being the Hippie he is…

Yes they are similar is some respects, but only superficially.There are, however, many different sects of Buddhism relating to geographical position and each holds various differences to each other (details really). Let me start with how they are NOT similar.

Remedial History of Buddhism:

Buddhism as we know it today was started by a hindu prince named Siddhartha (dont ask for correct spelling). The story goes that before he was born, his father the king was told that either his son was desitned to be either a great king, or a monk. The king, wanting an heir for his kingdom, cloistered his son inside the palace when he was born. Eventually the prince grew up into a young man. One day he convinced his chariot (I beleive it was a chariot) driver to take him out of the palace. Outside he saw a sick person and asked his chariot driver what was wrong with him, having no knowledge of sickness being cloistered in the palace. The chariot driver responded that the man was sick and that people get sick. The next day they went out again. This time the prince saw an old man and asked his chariot driver what was wrong with him having never seen an old person before. The chariot driver told him that he was old and that everyone gets old. The next day they went out again and they passed by a funeral procession and the prince was shocked, having never seen death before. The driver explained that the man was dead and that all people eventually die. The king heard of this the next day, but when he looked for his son, he had already left (thus fulfilling the prophecy that he would become a monk)

Now the prince became a hindu monk and he went out alone to contemplate suffering/human condition/blah-blah/etc and fasted until he nearly killed himself. He came to the realization that this was not the answer and went off again (teaching, gathering disciples, etc).

There are various sects of Buddhism as it was introduced to different parts of the wolrd. Tibet is/was the home of the Dhali Llama and holds a coupld sects with strong hindu influence (which is why you’ll see hindu gods/goddesses or their likenesses and other buddhists saints on “tangkas” or tapastries). Buddhism moved to China where it mixed with Taoism. In Japan, Zen buddhism arose. All these sects have various outlooks/perspectives on buddhism.

continued…
 
Basics (note that different sects have different perspectives):

-Buddhism can be summed up with the quote of the prince-turned-monk Siddhartha “all life is suffering”. Something Catholics already know. Buddhists believe that the goal in life is to reach “enlightenment” and die and escape the cycle of brith, death and rebirth. Probly shoud’ve mentioned that they belive that they have a soul that keeps gettin reincarnated over and over again into various lving things (birds, lizards, ants, mammals and humans). Human rebirth is the rarest form and the only form that progress can be made to “escaping” the cycle.

-They believe there is no “God”, or a supreme being. Not to say that there arent divine beings/immortals/gods/etc. But it’s VERY FRIGGIN hard to explain, again Hindu influence, just…its complicated.
-EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE!!! There is no good or evil, only thinks makes things good or evil…(EVERYONE, you want to know why relativism is pervading our culture? blame the 60’s and that whole experimentation with drugs/sex and eastern religions thing)
-The whole idea is to “escape” life, escape suffering and die and move on into basically nothingless. Again, it’s really friggin complicated.
-Buddhists beleive you can achieve enlightenment by the 8-fold path (just Google it) and being nice and respecting all life (remember that soul and reincarnation thing?). Basically karma, think Karma. Good actions = good karma. Bad actions = bad karma. Again, hindu influence.

As you might be able to see, the only similarities come from being “good” and how to “be good” like not stealing.murdering,raping, etc. But that’s about it. Buddhists are a WORLD apart once you take away the “being good”.

My advice, tell your professor that you respectfully disagree, that its more like 1% the same. Go to a library and get “Buddhism for dummies”.
 
Montie Claunch:
My teacher started rambling on about how the Bible and Buddist writings (philosphy, something like that) was like 90% the same or something.
I would generally disagree. There are some similarities: charity is a virtue in both religions and morality is similar. Buddhist practice emphasises meditation, wheras Christianity does not. At the philosophical level the two religions are very different. Buddhism is indifferent to the many gods, it does not believe in any sort of soul and it includes karma and reincarnation. Enlightenment and nirvana are very different to the Christian heaven.

The similarities are most striking in the area of morality: “Love others as you love yourself.” (Bhadramayakavyakarana sutra 91). At a theological level the two religions are very different.

The major difference between Buddhist practice and Christian is meditation. The closest approach to Buddhist meditation I have seen within Christianity is the Jesus Prayer. You might want to try it for a bit to get a flavour of Buddhism. Do bear in mind the warning Bishop Ware gives: “But those who have no personal contact with starets [a teacher] may still practice the Prayer without any fear, so long as they do so only for limited periods - initially, for no more than ten or fifteen minutes at a time - and so long as they make no attempt to interfere with the body’s natural rhythms”. This is good advice.
Montie Claunch:
I thought they didn’t beleive in any God?
Buddhists can believe in as many gods as they want to, including one or none. Gods are not important since they cannot grant you enlightenment. In the scriptures the main role of the gods is to applaud the Buddha at the right places; a Buddha is far more important than an unenlightened god. Gods in Buddhism have approximately the same importance as angels in Christianity, they are not essential for salvation/enlightenment.
Montie Claunch:
Are there any good books or websites addressing Buddism (sp?)?
From non-Buddhist sources I would suggest the BBC’s quick summary and Karen Armstrong’s Buddha, a biography of the Buddha.

From Buddhist sources I would suggest initially Buddhism in a Nutshell or What the Buddha Taught. Conze’s Short History of Buddhism is also useful.

Buddhist scruptures can be a difficult read. The best place to start is the Dhammapada. Beyond that the Theravada suttas are easier to understand, though somewhat repetitive. Mahayana sutras often assume knowledge of the Theravada and so can be opaque in places if you don’t have the background.

You mentioned Logic class. If you want to get into the philosophical level of Buddhism then the name to google for is Nagarjuna. For an example see Nagarjuna and the Limits of Thought. Nargajuna’s magnum opus is the Mulamadhyamikakarika.

For a completely different view try Sit Down and Shut Up!.

rossum
 
The biggest difference would be the most important difference: the existence of God versus the indifference to the existence of God. The confirmation of the existence of God in the world’s faiths all point to our obligation to get to know him.

This is logical, because beyond even the Christian concepts of God as Truth, Love, Justice, and Goodness it behooves us to understand the Intellect that had the power to will all of this into being.

To me, to remain indifferent to the existence of God is a little too close to atheism because such an attitude is foolhardy, even dangerous, if God is actually there but inconsequential if he is not. It smacks too much of modern agnosticism – which is nothing more than a brand of atheism practiced next to the fire exit of that particular worldview – just in case…

So, I think it would be safe to say Buddhism, in its most raw form, is atheistic, at least in practice if not in belief. (Yes, I know there are local variants that would take issue with that terminology).

To the Christian, this is the first big paradox of Buddhism. How can a spirituality that puts self at the center of the universe ever answer big questions concerning the purpose of our existence?

The Buddhist answer is to suggest not asking such questions in the first place. Pursuing doubts about your purpose amounts to an obsession about self and that is the cause of all suffering. This is their understanding on selflessness.

The Christian, however, follows the question to a most unlikely destination: a mirror. (Buddhist: see? You are pursuing self!) But the mirror’s image is not a perfect likeness of us. Or rather, we discover that we are the imperfect image of whatever, Whoever it may be in that mirror. We discover in our pursuit of the meaning of life something quite ironic: Life asking us “What is your meaning?”

If we have love, then we answer this Other: “To see your face.”

This pursuit, then becomes the center of our lives. We empty ourselves to make room for Infinite Love, Infinite Grace, Infinite Perfection. When we tried to empty ourselves before, we could not do it perfectly because we did not ask Him to come and fill the empty space.

The Buddhist enjoys the empty space or, at least, believes it somehow to be an ideal. But as Christians we know that Nature will not let that vacuum exist. The Buddhist self may be smaller, but it cannot be gone or the monk would fall over dead.

So this would be the Christian’s paradox for the Buddhist:
You seek detachment and selflessness in order to attain perfection (enlightenment). Yet your very faith is a worldly attachment. And without a self in the first place, there would be nothing to empty.

In the case of your faith, its very existence in the world suggests its insufficiency to fulfill its intended function.

In the case of your self, you are denying the natural order as well as the obvious.

The Catholic understands that the universe need not exist. But it does, and therefore there MUST be a reason for it. That reason is Love.
 
I also recommend this looong article on New Advent:

newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm

It outlines similar deficiencies in Buddhism from a slightly different angle. That is, its inherent pessimism.

Actually, I coming slowly to the understanding that no faith is as optimistic as Catholicism…
 
StubbleSpark (post #5):
How can a spirituality that puts self at the center of the universe ever answer big questions concerning the purpose of our existence?
I am afraid that you need to learn more about Buddhism - this is completely wrong. Buddhism denies the the real existence of any “self” or “soul”. Enlightnement is the realisation that there is no real self at all.“All the elements of reality are soulless.”
When one realises this by wisdom,
then one does not heed ill.
This is the Path of Purity.

(Dhammapada 20 v 7)Your criticism does not apply to Buddhism.
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StubbleSpark:
You seek detachment and selflessness in order to attain perfection (enlightenment).
Good, this is much better. Buddhists do indeed seek detachment and selflessness.
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StubbleSpark:
Yet your very faith is a worldly attachment.
Not quite. Buddhism is a path. I can only have a desire to travel the path while I am travelling; once I have arrived at my destination then I no longer have any desire to travel. A raft is useful for crossing a river, but once you have crossed over you should leave the raft behind. It would be an error to carry the raft with you on your back.
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StubbleSpark:
And without a self in the first place, there would be nothing to empty.
I only seek to empty the illusion of a self, as you rightly say I cannot empty a self that is already empty.
StubbleSpark (post #6):
I also recommend this looong article on New Advent:

newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm
As that article says in its header it was written about 1910. At that time the understanding of Buddhism in the West was very deficient. The first reliable translations of the sutras only began to appear about 1950, before then the technical vocabulary of Buddhism was insufficiently understood. The Tibetan diaspora following the flight of the Dalai Lama has also helped improve the West’s understanding of Buddhism. I am afraid that what may have been the best knowledge in 1910 is now very behind the times. The article also showed itself religiously biased:The fundamental tenets of Buddhism are marked by grave defects that not only betray its inadequacy to become a religion of enlightened humanity, but also bring into bold relief its inferiority to the religion of Jesus Christ.Would you rely on an article about Christianity that said, “The fundamental tenets of Christianity are marked by grave defects that not only betray its inadequacy to become a religion of enlightened humanity, but also bring into bold relief its inferiority to the religion of the Buddha”? Far better to use a more modern and less biased source such as Wikipedia, Encarta or those I gave earlier in this thread.

rossum
 
I’d also like to point out the absurdity of asserting the similarity of religions in percentages when it is impossible to measure that. If the tenets of the faith and philosophy could be distilled into numbered lists, you might have a chance, but it can’t be measured when some of the tenets might be the same, but the underlying reason why behind it is fundamentally different. It amazes me what “educated” people will regurgitate as fact.
 
Montie Claunch:
In Intro. To Logic class last semester My teacher started rambling on about how the Bible and Buddist writings (philosphy, something like that) was like 90% the same or something. Has anyone heard of this? What is the same? Is it really that much? I thought they didn’t beleive in any God? Are there any good books or websites addressing Buddism (sp?)? Thanks and God Bless.
Please remember that most of what has been written about buddhism, including by westerners who claim to be buddhists, is the relgion as viewed through a liberal Christian prism.
 
Thank you Rossum. I know from dealing with Protestants that sometimes the most confounding arguments arise over simple misunderstandings concerning terms and the different ways they are used. I hope we can avoid such misunderstandings in the future.

Concerning your comment on the article at New Advent:

It squares more or less with my understanding of Buddhism as it was taught to me – only it takes a decidedly Christian stance. Which is exactly the point. Montie’s first post has his logic prof saying the two faiths are 90% the same which is only superficially true. As far as the scholarship is concerned – good translations may not have been available in America before 1950 but that does not mean that the Church did not have access to authentic Buddhist teaching centuries before that.

One of the duties of the Catholic Church is to spread the Word and She cannot do that unless she first has a firm understanding of the language, culture, and beliefs of the indigenous peoples she preaches to. No real good could have been served by distortion of those beliefs. (Dare I say, that as a matter of fact, she is quite adept at converting scholars from foreign beliefs).

As a case in point, I would like to point out that the Catholic monk Thomas Merton was instrumental in transporting those new 50’s translations to the US.

It may not be your brand of Buddhism being described. In many Buddhist variants the concepts of good and evil, Heaven and Hell, and Karma are indispensable dogmas. The sect that has been most popular in the US since the 50’s had a very heavy Zen influence.

Merton lived in Japan, he was interested in Japanese philosophy more than their theology and thus he brought over what is probably the world’s most watered down version of Buddhism (Japanese Buddhist monks eat steak these days).

This Buddhism, I believe grew out of another form called Amitabha or Pure Land Sect. Amitabha Buddhism is essentially the Sola Fide version of Buddhism. The believer is not required to meditate or study or pray. Instead, all he must do is call out the name of the Amitabha Buddha sometime during life and when he dies, the Amitabha Buddha will guide him to enlightenment by holding open the door to Nirvana.

Before that there was a rise in Shingon Buddhism in the late first century. Shingon was Gnostic and therefore elitist. Its competing school of thought was Tendai.

Both schools agreed that truth is Mahavaironcana and that Mahavaironcana is dharmakaya. But Tendai insisted Mahavaironcana is also the sambhogakaya which communicates that truth. Kuukai (creator of Shingon Buddhism) said that darmakaya is communicated through the six elements (fire, wind, etc) without sambhogakaya. Shingon claims that truth is both the cognized and the communicator, Tendai separates them.

This is a little technical. My point was just to show how the progress of history went from a “secret knowledge” religion of Shingon to the no-knowledge religion of Amitabha Buddhism, to the purely philosophical musings of Zen Buddhism, which is so unspiritual that many Catholic priests “practice” it.

But this is not the Buddhism that Montie’s professor was thinking (obviously) when he made flip comparisons between Christianity and Buddhism insinuating they are practically indistinguishable. No serious philosopher, theologian, or practitioner of either faith would agree.

They would agree, however, that Catholic Christianity is very Eastern because of its deep connection to Judaism and the Orientals known as Arabs and Jews.

To be continued…
 
Buddhist practice emphasises meditation, whereas Christianity does not.
True, in Christianity the emphasis is more on prayer than on meditation, but just as Buddhist monks are not exclusively martial artists, Christian monks are not exclusively scientists. What could they possibly be doing locked up there all day?

It is a rather big beef among us Catholics that we are said not to meditate. The rosary is the most popular form of meditation on planet Earth. Can we get a little credit here?

We have pure prayer, pure meditation, combinations of the two, as well as the very unique type of prayer popular among Carmelites called contemplative prayer. Contemplative prayer sounds like meditation but it is not. I do not have time to go into that here. Suffice it to say though: nothing like it exists in any other religion I know of.
ot quite. Buddhism is a path. I can only have a desire to travel the path while I am travelling; once I have arrived at my destination then I no longer have any desire to travel. A raft is useful for crossing a river, but once you have crossed over you should leave the raft behind. It would be an error to carry the raft with you on your back.
But you still have not overcome the paradox that, while in the world, you must use a worldly vehicle to achieve Nirvana. Which leads us right back to worldly attachment to overcome worldly attachment.

Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying there is no answer to this – only that it seems an inherent paradox that leads many devout Buddhists to quit practicing altogether.

Actually the raft metaphor perfectly emphasizes a difference between Buddhist and Christian thought. The raft is natural (in Thomistic terms, that means it is of this world) but the Church is supernatural.

In a debate with a Protestant once, Jimmy Akin confirmed yes, everyone in Heaven is catholic. This is because all will be in a unified and universal Church. But everyone in Heaven will also be Catholic in the sense that our Church, though it exists in this world, does not come from this world – it comes from eternity.

Not only do we not “leave the raft behind” but when we achieve our perfected transcendent nature we actually become more unified with the “raft”. Because it is not a mere vehicle, it is the very hand of God reaching out to his betrothed through all time.

Hence, from the Christian perspective, the paradox in Buddhism. Ours is a supernatural, eternal faith. Theirs is a natural, worldly faith.
I only seek to empty the illusion of a self, as you rightly say I cannot empty a self that is already empty.
Or how about you cannot empty something that is not there. If self truly is an illusion, what is there to get rid of?

This is the insufficiency of Buddhism. Not only does it not answer the big questions concerning existence and purpose, but it avoids the question by negating the very existence of the questioner. How is this possible? Why would it be desirable? The exchange looks something like this:

You: Why am I here?
Buddhism: You aren’t.
You: I’m not? I thought I was!
Buddhism: No, what you see as a distinct self is a trick of the mind. Your “self” is actually a random combination of the elements coming together in a form that you perceive wrongly to be a unique existence. The material is not eternal, and therefore not a proper guide for the spiritual. Throw away all attachment to the material and you will transcend this world.
You: So I don’t exist?
Buddhism: Correct.
You: Then who’s doing the transcending? And more to the point, who are you talking to?
 
Philosopher Peter Kreeft says that Buddhism is a religion of the spiritual where Christianity is a religion of the material and spiritual being transformed into perfection through the power of God’s glory.

If in fact our anthropomorphic Christian God does not exist, then I highly recommend Buddhism as a great way to work with what ever could possibly be left over.

If however God exists then Buddhism is woefully ill-equipped to lead us to Him and should be dropped like a hot potato in favor of one of the theist faiths.

This is because God implies sentient intelligence and sentient intelligence implies purpose and purpose implies that we should ask “Why am I here?” And Buddhism does not want anything to do with this question.

Buddhism wants to answer the question “Why is there suffering?” But according to the Christian response, only gets the answer half right – if there is a God. If there is no God, then Buddhism’s answer to that question is as good as anybody else’s.
 
I am afraid that you need to learn more about Buddhism - this is completely wrong. Buddhism denies the the real existence of any “self” or “soul”. Enlightnement is the realisation that there is no real self at all.
“All the elements of reality are soulless.”
When one realises this by wisdom,
then one does not heed ill.
This is the Path of Purity.
(Dhammapada 20 v 7)
Your criticism does not apply to Buddhism.
In dealing with Protestants, one trick I have found helpful is to argue from the point that some things are unavoidable. For example, authority. Protestants claim a book as their sole interpretative authority.

Yet this is impossible because every congregation adds its own unique spin to the book. The book is is not self-interpreting (though it does speak) – hence the thousands of conflicting denominations led by varying interpretive authorities. They say one thing while ignoring the facts.

Christianity takes for granted the fact that we exist. Even if you could logically prove that we do not exist, the logical proof you offer would be evidence of a working intellect – hence a self – hence a soul – hence you exist.

The “Nada nada nada” emptying of Christianity is more like the emptying of two lovers in the act of procreation. There is total self-donation but it is a CO-self-donation. The root for the word “ecstasy” means “to stand outside oneself” – hence the selflessness of Christianity. The procreative aspect also emphasizes another aspect of selflessness in that the act creates a third person – another soul – to which we must devote time and attention.

But even though we give all to our Lover, we also receive. This means that there can be no total self-annihilation otherwise there would be no one to receive the gift. Even though the creation of the third person in this act demands that we relinquish an ego-centric world view to care for him, again the self cannot be totally annihilated because it is the self that is doing the caring.

See how Christianity uses a natural act (procreation) to understand a supernatural reality. We do not believe the natural world is corrupt, but innately good and designed for the purpose of revealing God to us. This is why Catholicism invented the natural sciences.

Just as we understand the moon exists for a purpose, we see that every act of our selflessness receives in equal or greater portion an affirmation of the purpose of our existence. Christian selflessness is intimately tied to our individual purposefulness. No matter how much we give, we cannot negate our existence even if that giving is leads to death.

Every affirmation of purpose comes from the Other and not from within.

The Buddhist may he is destroying the illusion of self but he cannot even put such ideas into words without betraying the underlying reality: " I am destroying the illusion of my self ."

One trick to get around this is to “transcend” language and forego the very use of words; focus on secret knowledge that comes through intuitive processes like meditation . But this only buries the same problem deeper. It is undeniably plain that A) there is a person and B) he is destroying the illusion of self.

Once you destroy the significance of the material world, you leave the believer with nothing to work with but his own intellect and soul (however illusory that may be). This is what is known as philosophical Idealism: the only thing we can be sure of is that which is perceived in our minds – all else is illusory.

But then isn’t the practitioner actually relying totally on self to destroy self? Where is his reality? Locked in his own mind! This is not self-destruction but self-affirmation. It is also a process that is completely internal because the affirmation can only come from within (actually EVERYTHING must come from within or it is summarily rejected as not reliably existing).

In more mystical forms of Buddhism, there is a sort of relationship introduced that more closely mirrors the Christian image of exchange.

But not all of these acknowledge the Buddha as the Creator (who would transcend the natural by his supernatural nature). He is more like a Pagan god – tied to this universe. The god of wind cannot be the god of wind if the universe has no wind. His existence depends on the existence of the material world. (There goes that paradox again).

Though there are still some sects which recognize the Buddha as creator (or one of a group of gods), the significance is only tertiary. As we have already discussed, Buddhism does not care about this issue in the first place.

Its goal is largely to affirm through self the meaninglessness of self. This is how Buddhism inevitably makes the self the center of the universe while seeking to take self from the center of the universe.

Therefore I contend if “one” “realizes” anything you are implying a one who is a realizer .
 
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StubbleSpark:
It is a rather big beef among us Catholics that we are said not to meditate.
My apologies, I did not mean to imply that. Within Christianity in general both the Catholic and Orthodox tradition have analogues to meditation - the Rosary and the Jesus Prayer are just two examples. The Protestant traditions often seem to have neglected this element of religion.
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StubbleSpark:
Or how about you cannot empty something that is not there. If self truly is an illusion, what is there to get rid of?
Exactly right, there is indeed nothing to get rid of. It is coming to that realisation which is the difficult part. You spend much time and effort climbing the mountain and at the top you find nothing: “y en el monte nada”.
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StubbleSpark:
Therefore I contend if “one” “realizes” anything you are implying a one who is a realizer.
At the level you are talking there is no realizer and nothing is realized. These things may appear to be happening, but it is just an appearance. The Buddha attained nirvana at age 36, he died age 80. Nirvana is here and now, not something after death.

rossum
 
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rossum:
Nirvana is here and now, not something after death.

rossum
I would add: “Nirvana is here and now, not just something after death.”😃
 
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StubbleSpark:
This Buddhism, I believe grew out of another form called Amitabha or Pure Land Sect. Amitabha Buddhism is essentially the Sola Fide version of Buddhism. The believer is not required to meditate or study or pray. Instead, all he must do is call out the name of the Amitabha Buddha sometime during life and when he dies, the Amitabha Buddha will guide him to enlightenment by holding open the door to Nirvana.

Before that there was a rise in Shingon Buddhism in the late first century. Shingon was Gnostic and therefore elitist. Its competing school of thought was Tendai.

Both schools agreed that truth is Mahavaironcana and that Mahavaironcana is dharmakaya. But Tendai insisted Mahavaironcana is also the sambhogakaya which communicates that truth. Kuukai (creator of Shingon Buddhism) said that darmakaya is communicated through the six elements (fire, wind, etc) without sambhogakaya. Shingon claims that truth is both the cognized and the communicator, Tendai separates them.

This is a little technical. My point was just to show how the progress of history went from a “secret knowledge” religion of Shingon to the no-knowledge religion of Amitabha Buddhism, to the purely philosophical musings of Zen Buddhism, which is so unspiritual that many Catholic priests “practice” it.

But this is not the Buddhism that Montie’s professor was thinking (obviously) when he made flip comparisons between Christianity and Buddhism insinuating they are practically indistinguishable. No serious philosopher, theologian, or practitioner of either faith would agree.

They would agree, however, that Catholic Christianity is very Eastern because of its deep connection to Judaism and the Orientals known as Arabs and Jews.

To be continued…
Quickly I want to clarify a few points:

Pure Land mainly consists of Chinese and Japanese forms. The Chinese is simply referred to as “Traditional Chinese Pure Land” and the Japanese form most popular is Shin Pure Land.

Now, the Chinese form relies on faith, vows and practice whereas Shin Buddhism relies on faith alone. I practice the Chinese form which consists of bowing at the waist and with hands together at the forehead, facing west, lighting candles or incense, chanting Pure Land Sutras and reciting Amitabha’s name (Amituofo in Chinese).

Faith, vows and practice are necessary for rebirth in Amitabha’s Western Pure Land. There are three main sutras that Pure Landers are encouraged to read and chant - the smaller Amitabha Sutra, the Larger Sukhavati Sutra and the Visualization Sutra. Sutras do have their place and proper usefulness.

In Shin Buddhism, faith only is necessary. One can recite Amitabha’s name once or one million - doesn’t matter. Amitabha has vowed to save all those who remember him. He has made the vows and they will be fulfilled regardless. This is central to the idea in Mahayana that one seeks to liberate all people, not just the person you are.

And, secondly and importantly, it is derogative to consider Amitabha Buddhism (as you call it) as a “no-knowledge religion”. Nothing could be further. The basic Mahayana teachings are still to be understood and accepted. Knowledge is important, not just as important as the Theravada school.

Zen (Japanese) / Chan (Chinese) Buddhism is really a mystical path of salvation. It is not purely philosophical. It is practical - it requires seeing things as they truly are and living purely “in the moment”. You could compare it somewhat to the Christian Mystics of Christianity and Sufi’s in Islam. Dogma is not a part of Zen. Experience is more important than knowledge.

I realize your message was not solely on this topic, but wanted to clear up some things that were muddy 🙂 (in my opinion).

I would be happy to discuss with you further if you wish.

Peace…
 
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StubbleSpark:
Amitabha Buddhism is essentially the Sola Fide version of Buddhism. The believer is not required to meditate or study or pray. Instead, all he must do is call out the name of the Amitabha Buddha sometime during life and when he dies, the Amitabha Buddha will guide him to enlightenment by holding open the door to Nirvana.
To follow up on Ahimsaman’s comment, it should also be pointed out that the idea of “faith” is not a radical departure from Theravada Buddhism, where it also taught that by having faith in the Buddha, one is able to enter into heaven; in fact, you can’t begin the practice of Buddhism without faith. (See, for instance, the story of Mattakundali, which is the story behind verse 2 of the first chapter of the Dhammapada.)
 
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Ahimsa:
To follow up on Ahimsaman’s comment, it should also be pointed out that the idea of “faith” is not a radical departure from Theravada Buddhism, where it also taught that by having faith in the Buddha, one is able to enter into heaven; in fact, you can’t begin the practice of Buddhism without faith. (See, for instance, the story of Mattakundali, which is the story behind verse 2 of the first chapter of the Dhammapada.)
Yes, my friend. Thank you for pointing this out. Faith is as important in Buddhism just as it is in any religion. If one follows a religion without having faith in it one would be considered somewhat of a fool.

As in the Catholic faith, faith is not just about mind only. Faith requires effort. Faith and “works” are the two sides of the coin. To have both sides as faith or vice versa would be an unbalanced practice.

As a Buddhist, one must have faith that the Buddha attained enlightenment and that he taught others the way to enlightenment. One must believe that the four noble truths and the eightfold path are the truth. Without having faith in basic Buddhist principles you could not hope to achieve enlightenment, no matter if one were of the Theravada or Mahayana or Vajrayana school.

Faith is a prerequisite.

Peace…
 
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StubbleSpark:
But you still have not overcome the paradox that, while in the world, you must use a worldly vehicle to achieve Nirvana. Which leads us right back to worldly attachment to overcome worldly attachment.
The vehicle to use is the body and mind along with the Buddha’s methods. There is no worldly attachment to overcome worldly attachment. You have to eat for your body to survive. Is that what you would call attachment?
Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying there is no answer to this – only that it seems an inherent paradox that leads many devout Buddhists to quit practicing altogether.
There is no paradox that I can see. I don’t understand quitting practice altogether because of a paradox, because there really isn’t one - false dichotomy.
Actually the raft metaphor perfectly emphasizes a difference between Buddhist and Christian thought. The raft is natural (in Thomistic terms, that means it is of this world) but the Church is supernatural.
I don’t understand your meaning here
In a debate with a Protestant once, Jimmy Akin confirmed yes, everyone in Heaven is catholic. This is because all will be in a unified and universal Church. But everyone in Heaven will also be Catholic in the sense that our Church, though it exists in this world, does not come from this world – it comes from eternity.

Not only do we not “leave the raft behind” but when we achieve our perfected transcendent nature we actually become more unified with the “raft”. Because it is not a mere vehicle, it is the very hand of God reaching out to his betrothed through all time.

Hence, from the Christian perspective, the paradox in Buddhism. Ours is a supernatural, eternal faith. Theirs is a natural, worldly faith.
The Buddha’s teaching is that the raft gets us to the other shore. What use is the raft after you are on land? You have two legs to walk on at that point.
Or how about you cannot empty something that is not there. If self truly is an illusion, what is there to get rid of?
This is a typical misunderstanding of the concept of “self” in Buddhism. The Buddha didn’t teach that you don’t exist. He taught that what you call your “self” is an aggregate of conditions. “This is because that is” sums it up well. He taught there is no “eternal” self, only a temporary “self”. How can one be a permanent entity when he is born, changes and dies? There’s no constant “form” that is permanent. That’s his meaning.
This is the insufficiency of Buddhism. Not only does it not answer the big questions concerning existence and purpose, but it avoids the question by negating the very existence of the questioner. How is this possible? Why would it be desirable? The exchange looks something like this:

You: Why am I here?
Buddhism: You aren’t.
You: I’m not? I thought I was!
Buddhism: No, what you see as a distinct self is a trick of the mind. Your “self” is actually a random combination of the elements coming together in a form that you perceive wrongly to be a unique existence. The material is not eternal, and therefore not a proper guide for the spiritual. Throw away all attachment to the material and you will transcend this world.
You: So I don’t exist?
Buddhism: Correct.
You: Then who’s doing the transcending? And more to the point, who are you talking to?
This is not correct. Trying to get back to the origins of life is fruitless. Who can do this? One could spend their whole lives devoted to this endeavor and still not find the beginning. Regardless of the “beginning”, the result is still the same. Suffering exists - point blank.

Even if we were to find the beginning point, would that solve the riddle of sickness, old age and death? No. That’s precisely why Buddha Shakyamuni declined to answer people’s endless questions about “the beginning” or “origin” of the world and life, not because he didn’t know the answers.

There is no deliberate intent on setting aside the issues of origins in Buddhism, but frankly, like I have already said - even if you knew the origin of life, would it make a difference of whether or not you transcended the endless cycle of birth and death?

There is an outstanding book by Walpola Rahula called, “What the Buddha Taught”. It is a short read and is the best book I’ve read on Buddhism. It clears up misunderstandings like no other book I know of. I would be happy to lend it to you - not to convert you, but merely to give you clearer ideas about Buddhism.

Peace…
 
Montie Claunch:
In Intro. To Logic class last semester My teacher started rambling on about how the Bible and Buddist writings (philosphy, something like that) was like 90% the same or something. Has anyone heard of this? What is the same? Is it really that much? I thought they didn’t beleive in any God? Are there any good books or websites addressing Buddism (sp?)? Thanks and God Bless.
Hello Montie!

Here is an interesting site you should look at.
frimmin.com/faith/lotuscross.html

There are as many differences as there are similarities. It depends on whether one wants to be inclusive or exclusive in their viewpoint and intention.

For good sites to learn about Buddhism, the best one I can give you is:
buddhanet.net

I’m not an expert, but would be willing to try to answer some of your questions or lead you in the right direction (hopefully).

Peace…
 
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