Buddism and Taoism

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I recently saw a program on PBS with a man named Dr. Wayne Dyer who I understood to be a Taoist.
I know there is a lot of trouble with Buddism being the “cool thing to do” as it is claiming many souls, but is Taoism making some sort unfourtunate of advancement in the US culture?
 
Ahimsa said:
What’s “unfortunate” about Taoism?😃
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Well, it is Metaphysically impossible. He didn’t explain the belief system in much detail during the program, but from what little I did hear, it was some sort of pantheistic belief system where everything, to include the individual human person and all material existence is part of a “divine essence”.
 
Primitive said:
I recently saw a program on PBS with a man named Dr. Wayne Dyer who I understood to be a Taoist.
I know there is a lot of trouble with Buddism being the “cool thing to do” as it is claiming many souls, but is Taoism making some sort unfourtunate of advancement in the US culture?
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I’ve listened to Dr Wayne Dyer since he first came on PBS.

He seems to have changed from a transcendentalist, to Hindu, and now Taoist.

My guess is he had some sort of bad experience with Hinduism, because he only became a Taoist about a year ago.

He says some good things, but they really aren’t his, but from some one else. He consistently quotes Mother Teresa.

However, he interprets some things incorrectly from the New Testament. As an example;
Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:34
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Dyer takes this verse to mean that we are gods. However, thats not what the Scripture verse means. It refers instead to the Old Testament, where the elders who are in charge of the Tora, God’s Word, would be called gods, in the figurative sense, not the literal.

He acknowledges that he has no use for organized religion, and that no person has really ever inspired him, but goes by his own instinct.

I take him with a grain of salt. There are far better Catholic writers to benefit from, that Dr Wayne Dyer.

Jim
 
Here’s an excerpt from an interview with Dyer, c. 2005:
Steve Ferrel: May I ask what you are religious beliefs are?
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Dr. Dyer: My belief is that the truth is a truth until you organize it, and then becomes a lie. I don’t think that Jesus was teaching Christianity, Jesus was teaching kindness, love, concern, and peace. What I tell people is don’t be Christian be Christ like. Don’t be Buddhist be Buddha like. As soon as you get into the Orthodoxies you get into power plays, right or wrong, some people get into heaven and some people don’t, my God is better than your God. No spiritual master who has ever walked among us has wanted that. To imagine Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammed all sitting at the table trying to come up with a solution for the world’s problems, building tanks and making somebody wrong and somebody right just wouldn’t be their way. They were all about love, unconditional love for all things and all people. That is my religious belief. I don’t put down other people’s religions.
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“Don’t be Buddhist, be Buddha-like?”

Yeah, okay.

Except, of course, that all that is partakes of the Buddha-nature, therefore nothing that is can help but be Buddha-like. Or did he mean, “Be like Siddhartha Gautama Shakyamuni Buddha, the earthly manifestation of Mahavairocana Buddha?” That’s just nonsense.

But then, I’m actually acquainted with Buddhism.

My problem with Dyer, and all these other white people posing as Taoists and Buddhists, is that they are basically applying Christian (specifically American nondenominational Protestant) Scripturalism to what are, essentially, esoteric religions. You can’t teach yourself real Taoism or Buddhism, even if you read all the classics or Sutras. You need a teacher, you need to be initiated–Tradition is infinitely more important in those religions even than in Eastern Orthodoxy. Sola Scriptura makes a hash of an exoteric religion, like Christianity; it makes an absolute joke out of an esoteric religion like Buddhism.
 
My issue with Dyer, as a pantheist, is that he picks and chooses what is “of the Divine”. He labels some things as not divine…sorry, can’t claim all is Divine except the stuff that makes me uncomfortable…not if you are a pantheist.

He’s all feel good, believe and it will come to you, etc. etc. Some of what he says is sound, but it’s tainted with “feel goodism” And most people know… alot of life doesn’t feel good. But that doesn’t mean you’re doing it wrong or believing the wrong things…some things just don’t feel good.
 
The other issue I have with Dyer, especially in his latest PBS program, is that he is calling himself a Taoist Master, despite stating that he only learned the Tao Te Ching, a year ago.

I thing real Taoist Masters would find this amusing.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The other issue I have with Dyer, especially in his latest PBS program, is that he is calling himself a Taoist Master, despite stating that he only learned the Tao Te Ching, a year ago.

I thing real Taoist Masters would find this amusing.

Jim
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The rest of us merely find it annoying.

Several years ago a Buddhist monk (american) came to town for the weekend. He held a few programs at a local church. I was friends with the woman “hosting” him.

I went to a program where he talked about visiting Japan, spending six weeks practicing a single brush stroke and him introducing us to all his antique Buddhist “trinkets”…statues, prayer wheels, bowls, etc.

I was scratching my head, because I wasn’t feeling any spirituality.

After the program we took him and his wife to dinner. For two hours he never asked anyone a single question about themselves, their beliefs, their life, nothing. He bragged about how he had revitalized the meditation group of another church, and had singlehandedly built a food co-op, and all his spiritual trips to far off lands.

The next morning, wearing his “Luke Skywalker” robe, he held a service, where he bragged some more about his Vermont Maple meditation stool, his collection of pure cotton robes, and again…introduced us to all his trinkets.

A few weeks later, I spoke to a friend who had gone out to lunch with the monk(?). I told him I had gotten a weird vibe from the guy, and couldn’t figure out how someone who meditated for a living could afford all his finery and trips…My friend said “He’s a day trader.”

Ah…yes.

I recall several years ago when some Tibetan monks came to town. We watched them create a sand painting over the course of a week. Heard them pray. Hiked to a waterfall to deposit sand after the painting was swept away.

No trinkets, no bragging, no Vermont Maple meditation stools or “Luke Skywalker” robes (just the same orange robes every day)

Fewer words…stronger message.

People preach their beliefs by what they do, and what they say when they are NOT speaking about their beliefs. That’s their real gospel, what they say, when they think they are NOT preaching. That’s what they believe. Make no mistake about it.

when the Taoists came to town. They shared their beliefs, but were not over encouraging of people to “jump in”. They didn’t want people to see it as the latest quick spirituality fad. They have introductory weekend retreats with dress codes, codes of behavior and inforced silence. Again…not so much talking, strong message.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I’ve listened to Dr Wayne Dyer since he first came on PBS.

He seems to have changed from a transcendentalist, to Hindu, and now Taoist.

My guess is he had some sort of bad experience with Hinduism, because he only became a Taoist about a year ago.

He says some good things, but they really aren’t his, but from some one else. He consistently quotes Mother Teresa.

However, he interprets some things incorrectly from the New Testament. As an example;

Dyer takes this verse to mean that we are gods. However, thats not what the Scripture verse means. It refers instead to the Old Testament, where the elders who are in charge of the Tora, God’s Word, would be called gods, in the figurative sense, not the literal.

He acknowledges that he has no use for organized religion, and that no person has really ever inspired him, but goes by his own instinct.

I take him with a grain of salt. There are far better Catholic writers to benefit from, that Dr Wayne Dyer.

Jim
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Dr. Wayne Dyer is Catholic
 
Primitive said:
Well, it is Metaphysically impossible.
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How?
He didn’t explain the belief system in much detail during the program,
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So you really don’t know what Taoism teaches but you know it is metaphysically impossible. Impressive! :rolleyes:
but from what little I did hear, it was some sort of pantheistic belief system where everything, to include the individual human person and all material existence is part of a “divine essence”.
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Taoism can mean a lot of things. I think it’s fair to say that it’s basically pantheistic, but that can mean a lot of things. And most Westerners are drawn to “philosophical Taoism,” whereas historically Taoism has been a religious movement with a clerical hierarchy, a pantheon of gods, etc. And then there’s the form of Taoism that is mainly about synthesizing a magical potion that will let you live forever!

However, I’ve just been teaching the Chuang Tzu, chapter 16, and that text does portray human beings as essentially interchangeable with the rest of the cosmos–using the imagery of pottery and smithing to describe dying humans being assimilated with the universe and reforged into something else. Where one part of the chapter speaks of the “Creator,” another speaks of what the textbook’s translation calls “the Great Clod.” I don’t know what the semantic range of the Chinese original is, but that image does sound basically pantheistic.

Edwin
 
Marc1152 said:
I suggest reading: Christ the Eternal Tao: by Hieromonk Damascene, an Orthodox Monk.

In the beginning was the Tao,
And the Tao was with God,
And the Tao was God.
… And the Tao was made flesh
And dwelt among us …

— The Gospel of John,
translated from Chinese

consciousevolution.com/metamorphosis/0404/review0404.htm
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This ia a perfect example of how eastern thought is corrupting Christianity, when in fact they are opposing pholosphies.

Catholicism and Buddhism: Compatible Beliefs?
But Pope John Paul II threw water on that fire in 1994’s Crossing the Threshold of Hope with comments regarding Buddhism that received a good amount of press at the time (and also a lot of debate). In his comments, our late pontiff really didn’t pull any punches, calling Buddhism “in large measure an ‘atheistic’ system’.” He pulled the carpet out from under comparisons to Catholicism by pointing out that the ultimate end of man for Christians is union with God, while for Buddhists it is Nirvana (complete detachment, or a state of nothingness).
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Actually the quote is Taoist not Buddhist.

Christianity is an Eastern Religion FYI. Perhaps western idea’s of reason and logic and legalism is the more corrupting force.
 
Marc1152 said:
Actually the quote is Taoist not Buddhist.

Christianity is an Eastern Religion FYI. Perhaps western idea’s of reason and logic and legalism is the more corrupting force.
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To a taoist - it may be a corrupting force for taoism isn’t compatible with Christinity as well as buddhism - I should have used a different example.🤷 I stand so corrected:rolleyes:

But mixing Christinianity with eastern thought is still a corruption

**
Taoism
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**
(TAO-KIAO.)
Taoism is the second of the three state religions (San-kiao) of China. This religion is derived from the philosophical doctrines of Lao-tze. “Lao-tze’s Taoism”, says Legge (Religions of China, 229), “is the exhibition of a way or method of living which men should cultivate as the highest and purest development of their nature”. According to De Groot (Religious System of China, IV, p. 66): “Taoism, as the word indicates, is the Religion of the Tao, a term meaning Path or Way, but denoting in this peculiar case the way, course or movement of the Universe, her processes and methods. In other words, Taoism is the Religion of Heaven and Earth, of the Cosmos, of the World or Nature in the broadest sense of these words. Hence we may call it Naturism”.
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