Buddist on Catholic answers?

[Bahaitruth]

Buddhism is the tool to let go of the attachment to worldly things, which in buddhist vocabulary also means letting go of attachment to God and Heaven. So for a buddhist the above citation is not actually accurate.


But it is pretty good all the same.
/Victor

Here is a quote from the first paragraph of the Kitabi Iqan:

“No man shall attain the shores of the ocean of true understanding except he be detached from all that is in heaven and on earth.”

I have a whole collection of atheistic statements in Bahai writings, may share them later…

 

[daler]

All things are transient. Nothing last forever. (Anicca)
All things lack inherent value. They only have value ascribed them in the minds of people. (Anatta)
All phenomena leads to dissatisfaction. (Dukkha).

Yepp yepp and yepp! The Pattern of attachment. That is the Dependent Origination in Dhamma language.
Nice explanation.

Do the Baha’i have an exposition of this?

/Victor

Victor,
. My thoughts are that we tend to be absorbed in distractions which divert us from our true purpose in life, which is reunion with God. This may not be quite how a Buddhist would phrase it, but I think that ultimately it is not the specific language so much as that one is on the path, and not in the ditch. and there are many ditches…

. "O My brother! When a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading unto the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse his heart, which is the seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this Day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the Divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error.

. That seeker must, at all times, put his trust in God, must renounce the peoples of the earth, must detach himself from the world of dust, and cleave unto Him Who is the Lord of Lords. He must never seek to exalt himself above any one, must wash away from the tablet of his heart every trace of pride and vain-glory, must cling unto patience and resignation, observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison. Material fire consumeth the body, whereas the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul. The force of the former lasteth but for a time, whilst the effects of the latter endureth a century."

CXXV Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah

 

[openmind77]

Victor,
. …That seeker must, at all times, put his trust in God, must renounce the peoples of the earth, must detach himself from the world of dust, and cleave unto Him Who is the Lord of Lords. He must never seek to exalt himself above any one…

Exactly!. .. must never seek to exalt himself above any one… How come Bahaualah did not take his own words to heart? What is this ridiculous claim of his to be the ‘Father’?

The Buddha never claimed to be God. He did not even claim to know God. But I am perfectly sure he knew as much about God as Jesus did.

 

[daler]

Exactly!. .. must never seek to exalt himself above any one… How come Bahaualah did not take his own words to heart? What is this ridiculous claim of his to be the ‘Father’?

The Buddha never claimed to be God. He did not even claim to know God. But I am perfectly sure he knew as much about God as Jesus did.

Openmind,
. Even as One could claim to come in the Station of the Son, and manifest Himself to men in that capacity, if One Who comes in the Station of the Father, and He is possessed of that Station, would it not seem logical for Him to identify Himself as such?

. I think that you are still seeing Baha’u’llah as a human being, rather than considering that all of the Manifestations of God are really much, much more than human beings like ourselves. My own sense is that They are coming from where we have yet to go. It is as though your or I enter into the womb of a mother and talk to the fetus about this world and how it needs to prepare itself for it by growing arms and legs, eyes and ears, etc.

. The Manifestations of God are from the “next world”, if that phrase is acceptable. They come to us as one of us, to prepare us for that life to come, which is not a physical life. Hence, they prepare us spiritually, guiding us, admonishing us to be truthful, charitable, honest, forgiving, etc.

 

[openmind77]

Openmind,
. Even as One could claim to come in the Station of the Son, and manifest Himself to men in that capacity, if One Who comes in the Station of the Father, and He is possessed of that Station, would it not seem logical for Him to identify Himself as such?

. I think that you are still seeing Baha’u’llah as a human being, rather than considering that all of the Manifestations of God are really much, much more than human beings like ourselves. My own sense is that They are coming from where we have yet to go. It is as though your or I enter into the womb of a mother and talk to the fetus about this world and how it needs to prepare itself for it by growing arms and legs, eyes and ears, etc.

. The Manifestations of God are from the “next world”, if that phrase is acceptable. They come to us as one of us, to prepare us for that life to come, which is not a physical life. Hence, they prepare us spiritually, guiding us, admonishing us to be truthful, charitable, honest, forgiving, etc.

Like I said - ‘Manifestation’ of the Father or ‘Station’ of the Father- just ridiculous!

He was no more a manifestation of God than the Buddha was (actually much less so)

 

[daler]

Like I said - ‘Manifestation’ of the Father or ‘Station’ of the Father- just ridiculous!

He was no more a manifestation of God than the Buddha was (actually much less so)

Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Qur’an 109:1-6

 

[openmind77]

Say: O ye that reject Faith!
I worship not that which ye worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Qur’an 109:1-6

I believe we all worship the same God whatever our faith.

My issue is that Bahaullah seems to be worshiping himself.

 

[daler]

I believe we all worship the same God whatever our faith.

My issue is that Bahaullah seems to be worshiping himself.

Openmind,
. Believe me, everyone has their “issues” when it comes to the Messengers of God. Their station is complex. At one time they are speaking as a mere mortal, like ourselves, supplicating God. At another time it is in the station of God speaking through Them to us, sometimes He is praising Himself (God praises God)

. If you have time, the Fire Tablet is a few pages long, and is a profound example of the supplication of God, from Baha’u’llah, and then there is a shift where God is answering Him.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/c/BP/bp-174.html

. Please let me know what your heart says to you, not your head, when you (if you) read it. Also, tell me if anyone you have ever known speaks or writes in this way?

 

[openmind77]

Openmind,
. Believe me, everyone has their “issues” when it comes to the Messengers of God. Their station is complex. At one time they are speaking as a mere mortal, like ourselves, supplicating God. At another time it is in the station of God speaking through Them to us, sometimes He is praising Himself (God praises God)

. If you have time, the Fire Tablet is a few pages long, and is a profound example of the supplication of God, from Baha’u’llah, and then there is a shift where God is answering Him.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/c/BP/bp-174.html

. Please let me know what your heart says to you, not your head, when you (if you) read it. Also, tell me if anyone you have ever known speaks or writes in this way?

I don’t think I want to read tons of stuff in some flowery, poetic language.

But I don’t have any issue with other messengers of God , like Jesus or the Buddha. It is only Bahuallah who claims that he is the ‘Father’ - there is no one above the Father. Bahaullah has put himself above everyone else.

 

[adawgj]

If there are any Buddhists on here.

If I live a true Christian life, would this mean that I might have already started a path with Buddha because of there similarities?

 

[openmind77]

If there are any Buddhists on here.

If I live a true Christian life, would this mean that I might have already started a path with Buddha because of there similarities?

I am a Hindu, but let me take a shot at answering this question if I may.

There are different kinds of Christians and all kinds of Buddhists, so what I say does not apply to all or even most Christians or Buddhists.

There are in general four different paths a human being can be on - the path of good works, path of devotion, path of knowledge and finally the path of renunciation/union with the absolute.

If you are a really, true Christian then you are most likely on the path of devotion (Bhakti) or on the path of good works(or charity).

If you are a really, true Buddhist then you are most likely either on the path of knowledge (of the Self) or on the path renunciation/union.

All paths will get you to liberation eventually. (However, the Buddhist paths are somewhat superior but are not appropriate for everyone.)

 

[daler]

I don’t think I want to read tons of stuff in some flowery, poetic language.

But I don’t have any issue with other messengers of God , like Jesus or the Buddha. It is only Bahuallah who claims that he is the ‘Father’ - there is no one above the Father. Bahaullah has put himself above everyone else.

openmind,
. It took me 10 o 15 years before I began appreciating the flowery language of Baha’u’llah, Prior to that, my attitude was very much like yours. There is an eloquence which expresses on a level unlike any other His matchless utterance.

. I don’t drink wine, but those who do remark about how certain tastes and smells are subtle and experienced only by the sensitive palate. You would not expect the Lord of Hosts to speak without an air of loftiness, would you? Is it for Him to descend to our level, or are we called to scale the summits of transcendent glory? For it is by this means that we are called to “meet the Lord in the air…” and not some physical attainment or geographical place of childish imagination.

. “Think not that We have revealed unto you a mere code of laws. Nay, rather, We have unsealed the choice Wine with the fingers of might and power. To this beareth witness that which the Pen of Revelation hath revealed. Meditate upon this, O men of insight!…”

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/PB/pb-64.html

 

[Servant19]

Exactly!. .. must never seek to exalt himself above any one… How come Bahaualah did not take his own words to heart? What is this ridiculous claim of his to be the ‘Father’?

The Buddha never claimed to be God. He did not even claim to know God. But I am perfectly sure he knew as much about God as Jesus did.

This is like saying how could God possibly announce to the human world that He is God?

Verily, He is in Himself, the Knower, the Sustainer, the Omnipotent.

Baha’u’llah did not wake up one morning and thought to Himself:
"I know, today, I think I will announce myself as someone really special, who can I be? mmmmmmmmmm, let me think, someone was already the Son of God, but I’m better than Him, and someone was already the Friend of God, Im better than Him also, tell you what, I’m gonna call myself the Father!! "

Really??

You make an announcement like that to an ISLAMIC audience, (who, if you recall, cannot fathom anything beyond what was written in the Quran, and even have serious problems with God even having a Son), then you better back it up with some SERIOUS actions, and your countenance better be something seriously special…

THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Christians met Baha’u’llah and believed Him to such a level that they sacrificed their whole lives in service to His Cause and His Person.

Anyway, a different thread is needed to discuss this further.

.

 

[openmind77]

This is like saying how could God possibly announce to the human world that He is God?

Verily, He is in Himself, the Knower, the Sustainer, the Omnipotent.
…
.

Sure the real God can do that - but he won’t be sitting in prison when does so and then claiming to be Omnipotent!

The Buddha on the other hand has the humility to say that he does not understand God completely (to stay on topic)

 

[Servant19]

Sure the real God can do that - but he won’t be sitting in prison when does so and then claiming to be Omnipotent!

But Baha’u’llah is not God.

He simply has said that He was referred to as God in the Sacred Scriptures since He authored all of them…

To an ant, human beings are God. If I was to communicate to an ant that I was God, He would believe me.

Only the reality is that when the ant can finally develop enough capacity to understand, he will realise that I am not really God after all.

There are an infinite number of grades of existence…just a glimpse at the reality around us can show us that this is how the universe was created. Thats just a visible universe.

The world of the Kingdom is a whole different entity altogether

Why is that impossible to be a reality?

.

 

[openmind77]

But Baha’u’llah is not God.

He simply has said that He was referred to as God in the Sacred Scriptures since He authored all of them…

To an ant, human beings are God. If I was to communicate to an ant that I was God, He would believe me.

Only the reality is that when the ant can finally develop enough capacity to understand, he will realise that I am not really God after all.

There are an infinite number of grades of existence…just a glimpse at the reality around us can show us that this is how the universe was created. Thats just a visible universe.

The world of the Kingdom is a whole different entity altogether

Why is that impossible to be a reality?

.

That clears thing up, thanks. I thought Bahaullah said that he himself was the Lord of Lords, I was mistaken.

 

[Servant19]

That clears thing up, thanks. I thought Bahaullah said that he himself was the Lord of Lords, I was mistaken.

God bless you

The term “Lord of Lords” is a title of Baha’u’llah which was used in the Bible, along with “King of Kings” (I believe it was in Psalms)

Both these terms refer to Baha’u’llah, but Baha’u’llah says that He still is not God, who He terms that “Invisible Essence of Essences” among other titles, but God is beyond any “given” titles, for titles are man-made language expressions, God is beyond any “expression”

Baha’u’llah is not God, but He is the Father…

.

 

[daler]

Sure the real God can do that - but he won’t be sitting in prison when does so and then claiming to be Omnipotent!

The Buddha on the other hand has the humility to say that he does not understand God completely (to stay on topic)

openmind,
. Although I think Servant19 has answered your question quite well, I can’t help but notice the parallel of when the Jews told Jesus to come down from the cross. Do you see what I mean? Both Christ and Baha’u’llah were prophesied about in the Old Testament, about how they would suffer for humanity, kind of like how much kids make their parents suffer through adolescence.

As to your second point, the following should suffice. (I am trying not to do too much quoting…)

. "To every discerning and illuminated heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the Divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress. Far be it from His glory that human tongue should adequately recount His praise, or that human heart comprehend His fathomless mystery. He is, and hath ever been, veiled in the ancient eternity of His Essence, and will remain in His Reality everlastingly hidden from the sight of men. “No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision; He is the Subtile, the All-Perceiving.”

. Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah

. By the way, it seems that we are going off track from the theme of this thread and the focus here should return to the subject of Buddhism. Baha’is do regard Buddha as a Manifestation of God, although that term is pretty much foreign even to Buddhists. Some clarification might be in order. It would help if we could find a Baha’i from a Buddhist background to help clarify what is meant appropriate to the Lord Buddha Himself.

. The best I can offer is my own understanding that the qualities and attributes of the Supreme Reality were manifest in Him, and that even as Jesus said “I am the Way the Truth and the Life”, so also are the other Manifestations of God, including Buddha. Each of Them is the personification of the Right Path, especially suited to the age in which they appeared and to those to whom They appeared, that the people might be elevated from idol worship and materialism and achieve their spiritual potential in this world.

. A seed which remains in the ground too long, in cold and dry soil, does not germinate. The Buddha, Jesus, Baha’u’llah, are the spiritual Suns which illuminate the souls of mens hearts and release all the potentials latent with us when we turn to Them, even as the seen sprouts and the leaves which turn to receive sunlight grow and bare fruit. It works like that, except that we are speaking of bearing spiritual fruit: Love, compassion, virtues such as patience, truthfulness, magnanimity, etc.

. Please forgive me if I talk too much here. I do not mean to offend you and enjoy dialogue with you, openmind, when it is productive.
Thank you for your patience,
Daler

 

[Grym]

Like I said - ‘Manifestation’ of the Father or ‘Station’ of the Father- just ridiculous!

He was no more a manifestation of God than the Buddha was (actually much less so)

I must say that if Buddha was a manifestation of God then the Buddhists might as well torch the sacred scriptures and go to the spa.

That would be totally illogical and make nonsense of the Dhamma.

As to the Buddha being humble. I and the scriptures would suggest rather the opposite.
Buddha never made any claim not to understand the Brahma. Rather the opposite.

The scriptures claim he refuted all his contemporaries and even was a teacher of God (the Brahma) himself.

Like Jesus the Buddha was revolutionary and a rebel to his time. Those people are not humble i dare say. . What do you think?

/Victor

 

[Grym]

If there are any Buddhists on here.

If I live a true Christian life, would this mean that I might have already started a path with Buddha because of there similarities?

It is like switching educations in the university. Going from physics to computer science you might get to keep your credits for maths but not for quantum theory.

Did I make any sense?

/Victor