Bullies like Marie on Everybody Loves Raymond

[Scottgun]

Call me a cynic, but, I’d imagine that the writers for this program are shooting for high ratings, not deep moral teaching.

Sure they are after ratings. Who wants to spend time, effort, and money on something no one wants to watch? And while they may not be after deep moral teachings, when they dramatize and spoof everyday existence with friends and family (and the fact that people watch indicates they peg it pretty well) they inevitably are going to run afoul (in a manner of speaking) of higher truths.

Btw, I agree about Deb and Marie’s atrocious treatment of Raymond. Deriding all things distinctively male (and heterosexually male no less) is the unfortunate template that most sitcomes seem incapable of breaking out of. *Home Improvement *is even worse. This is why certain British comedies such as As Time Goes By are a breath of fresh air because the females sometimes get to be the buffoon.

 

[whatevergirl]

Sure they are after ratings. Who wants to spend time, effort, and money on something no one wants to watch? And while they may not be after deep moral teachings, when they dramatize and spoof everyday existence with friends and family (and the fact that people watch indicates they peg it pretty well) they inevitably are going to run afoul (in a manner of speaking) of higher truths.

Btw, I agree about Deb and Marie’s atrocious treatment of Raymond. Deriding all things distinctively male (and heterosexually male no less) is the unfortunate template that most sitcomes seem incapable of breaking out of. *Home Improvement *is even worse. This is why certain British comedies such as As Time Goes By are a breath of fresh air because the females sometimes get to be the buffoon.

I wondering why in any sitcom–either gender needs to appear like ‘the buffoon.’ I mean, back in the days of I Love Lucy–she was truly a comedian extraordinaire. She was hilarious, but we weren’t making fun of women when we were watching her, as I see nowadays with the sitcoms of today–where the shows like Raymond, etc…seem to want to lump men into this category of being stupid, and afraid to speak up because their wives rule the roost. I see it on commercials too…like that cleaning commercial–where the wife says…‘My kids are pigs…my husband is an a**…’ granted it’s funny to a degree-but as I stopped to think about it…I thought to myself–why are we always making men look like bumbling idiots in this society? I also noticed the type of Valentine’s day cards for husbands and fathers–the joking ones were that of men farting, belching…overall, just looking stupid on these cards. You don’t see counterparts for women. (well, we are not as gross, that’s for sure ) But…it just begs the question…why are men depicted in such demeaning ways in the media? I don’t think it’s necessary for a comedy to be good.

Mad about you…ugh…that was another sitcom…my husband was like …I cannot watch that wimpy husband take orders from his wife anymore…PLEASE shut it off!!!

 

[dulcissima]

I’m probably in the minority but I find the Debra character to be annoying also.

I find Debra annoying also. She has no patience for her husband and always makes him feel like he is in trouble.

 

[Steelers_Rule]

Marie = my Mom

She truely does love her entire family, it’s the only way she knows how to show it…

I think that you are making excuses for her, although, you did move away.

If she truly loved her family as much as herself, she wouldn’t have such a hard time knowing how to show it.

 

[Steelers_Rule]

Debra as this bullying type wife…or a wife that he can never please… I agree that it would not be a bad idea to show Raymond standing up for his wife…

I agree, although, I wouldn’t want to watch, because it wouldn’t be pretty.

The whole idea of Ray standing up to Marie is completely sane, rational and just, but narcissists are sick people, and it would be a war in their mind.

Sort of reminds me of that line from the Untouchables–“What are you prepared to do?”

How do you think the script would go?

 

[Spirithound]

The problem is that her character would probably make that excuse, too, when challenged, which is part of the guilt game narcissists like to lay.

And she did! On at least 3 occasions (that I can remember, which means there are so many more)

 

[sanctamaria17]

I have grown up with many Italian women (I’m 1/2 Italian) and she isn’t that far off from reality. haha I am not that way–but my aunts and my dad’s mom (who I never met, but was told she had an art for guilt trips) was similiar to the character on that show. I can see where you might think that–her being a narcissicist, but I think it’s really meant to be a ‘spoof’ on Italian mother-inlaws.

Being part Italian with a dad from Italy and growing up in a very Italian neighborhood, I’d have to agree I only saw a few episodes of the show but thought it was funny.

However, I hate that men are made to look like cowardly idiots on TV. Or they’re made to look like the “dream guy”. I was telling a guy friend how much I loved Pride and Prejudice (both the book and the movie) and he was saying how much he hated it. He said that every girl he knows (and he’s friends with a lot of girls) who has seen the movie now wants a guy like Mr. Darcy. It frustrates him and a bunch of my other guy friends because they believe it’s unrealistic (and it is). Guys are portrayed as either Mr. Darcy or Joey from Friends (really good or really, well, you get the picture) so whenever we meet a regular guy, it’s like, he’s not sketchy, but he’s not the one, he’s too average. The media does not do men justice.

 

[Scottgun]

I wondering why in any sitcom–either gender needs to appear like ‘the buffoon.’

I didn’t explain myself very well. In the context I was thinking of there was give and take.

 

[whatevergirl]

I didn’t explain myself very well. In the context I was thinking of there was give and take.

No worries–I think I knew where you were coming from.

 

[whatevergirl]

Being part Italian with a dad from Italy and growing up in a very Italian neighborhood, I’d have to agree I only saw a few episodes of the show but thought it was funny.

However, I hate that men are made to look like cowardly idiots on TV. Or they’re made to look like the “dream guy”. I was telling a guy friend how much I loved Pride and Prejudice (both the book and the movie) and he was saying how much he hated it. He said that every girl he knows (and he’s friends with a lot of girls) who has seen the movie now wants a guy like Mr. Darcy. It frustrates him and a bunch of my other guy friends because they believe it’s unrealistic (and it is). Guys are portrayed as either Mr. Darcy or Joey from Friends (really good or really, well, you get the picture) so whenever we meet a regular guy, it’s like, he’s not sketchy, but he’s not the one, he’s too average. The media does not do men justice.

agreed–i think it can be a bit easier being a woman, at times. (at times ) i figured you were Italian from your username…my dad was born in Italy as well–what part?

 

[sanctamaria17]

My dad’s from Florence, where’s yours from?

OK, sorry for being OT. Back to the original discussion)

 

[whatevergirl]

My dad’s from Florence, where’s yours from?

OK, sorry for being OT. Back to the original discussion)

My dad’s mom was born in Florence…and he was born in Rome. He came to the U.S. when he was just 5…he passed away when I was a kid…I would someday like to visit Italy…and see where my family comes from.

Yes–sorry–OT!

 

[yessisan]

I know a woman who is just like Marie. I couldn’t stand her. She was my ex-fiance’s mom. We had said we’d move away to another state just to get away from her. And Debra… she reminds me of my uncle’s wife… at least my uncle doesn’t act like Ray.

This all makes me think that the Adams Family was more normal and more intersting than this show. I used to like it, but the constant nagging got me tired of it. Plus, thinking about that guy’s mom made my skin crawl and I had to stop watching it. BAD MEMORIES.

 

[Grace_Angel]

Marie = My Mother in Law

Distance is the answer. Thank God that we didn’t build a house next to her.

Marie may be a fictional character, but I can tell you, there are women like her, even my DH says his mother is like her.

I sometimes think these type of people are a trial to us. I know my MIL is for me.

I ditto that
Marie=my mother in law. and she is not italian but JEWISH.
It was my husband her son who first said she is like his mother.
I hated watching the show. and I wont watch it. It grates me just hearing her voice. It grates me further looking at her two wimpish sons. Some poster has suggested distance is the answer. Indeed it is.
GraceAngel.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Well, my “Marie” was over, and she rearranged my kitchen counter. She moved my coffee maker, and said"it looks better there." I put it back. She re-cleaned my bathroom, (I guess it wasn’t clean enough, 5 minutes is a real long time between cleanings.) And I need to smile and say, “Thanks for the help”

For those of you who don’t think the Marie character is believable, you should visit me