Burning my bridges, why can't i just grow up?

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JLCecilia

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DH and I haven’t been on very good terms the last month or so and I have to say it’s probably mainly my fault. I’m so tired of asking for his help and being brushed off or ignored altogether I’ve gone into cold shoulder mode. If he asks the slightest thing of me he gets chewed. Even though we haven’t addressed (for the umpteenth time) the elephant in the room, he’s been gracious enough to start picking up one of our kids from school and getting him to the sitter so I don’t have to leave to transport children TWICE a day. I just burned that bridge.

I was busy folding towels and piling them on the counter for DH to put away (instead of putting our littlest one’s shoes on) and when I was ready to go this morning, DS wasn’t, so I left him for DH to take. It makes me so mad that DH will only allow himself time in the morning to get himself ready and off to work. Granted, I’ve done better about managing my time in the mornings and getting all 3 kids and myself ready and off to our designated places in time, but I don’t think I should HAVE to.

Guess I’m just going to have to get over it. Beneath all of this anger is just loneliness and feeling like I have nobody to count on. Why can’t I just make peace with the fact that I’m physically capable of doing it all on my own and it’s clear that’s how it’s going to be for the rest of my life. I’ve been doing this for 6.5 years now, why can’t I make peace with it!
 
Sounds like you guys might benefit from some marriage counseling. Any possibility that DH might cooperate? Catholic Charities is always a good place to start.

:grouphug:

This marriage thing is tough.
 
JLCecilia said:
DH and I haven’t been on very good terms the last month or so and I have to say it’s probably mainly my fault. I’m so tired of asking for his help and being brushed off or ignored altogether I’ve gone into cold shoulder mode. If he asks the slightest thing of me he gets chewed. Even though we haven’t addressed (for the umpteenth time) the elephant in the room, he’s been gracious enough to start picking up one of our kids from school and getting him to the sitter so I don’t have to leave to transport children TWICE a day. I just burned that bridge.

I was busy folding towels and piling them on the counter for DH to put away (instead of putting our littlest one’s shoes on) and when I was ready to go this morning, DS wasn’t, so I left him for DH to take. It makes me so mad that DH will only allow himself time in the morning to get himself ready and off to work. Granted, I’ve done better about managing my time in the mornings and getting all 3 kids and myself ready and off to our designated places in time, but I don’t think I should HAVE to.

Guess I’m just going to have to get over it. Beneath all of this anger is just loneliness and feeling like I have nobody to count on. Why can’t I just make peace with the fact that I’m physically capable of doing it all on my own and it’s clear that’s how it’s going to be for the rest of my life. I’ve been doing this for 6.5 years now, why can’t I make peace with it!
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I wouldn’t resign myself to this without make some serious effort to change things. Like TRJ, I would recommend counseling to sort through this if you seem to be unable to address these issues as a couple. Have you expressed these concerns to your husband?
 
TheRealJuliane said:
This marriage thing is tough.
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TRJ, you can say that again and again and again and a million times over. This marriage thing really is tough. And marriage can be lonely and isolating at times, too! To the OP, I think it is a big step of you that you are acknowledging your own shortcomings. It doesn’t add too much value to the conversation for me to simply reiterate what others have said, but I do agree with the others. And please know that I am praying for you and your marriage. Please do the same for me and mine. :console:
 
I concur that counseling may be in order, either for yourself, or for both you and your husband. I am particularly concerned about how you describe your negative reactions to your husband’s “slightest” requests in the third person, as though your reactions are inevitable.

Counseling may help you gain better perspective about why you react the way you do, and give you strategies to react and cope in a healthier manner.
 
JLCecilia said:
DH and I haven’t been on very good terms the last month or so and I have to say it’s probably mainly my fault. I’m so tired of asking for his help and being brushed off or ignored altogether I’ve gone into cold shoulder mode. If he asks the slightest thing of me he gets chewed. Even though we haven’t addressed (for the umpteenth time) the elephant in the room, he’s been gracious enough to start picking up one of our kids from school and getting him to the sitter so I don’t have to leave to transport children TWICE a day. I just burned that bridge.

I was busy folding towels and piling them on the counter for DH to put away (instead of putting our littlest one’s shoes on) and when I was ready to go this morning, DS wasn’t, so I left him for DH to take. It makes me so mad that DH will only allow himself time in the morning to get himself ready and off to work. Granted, I’ve done better about managing my time in the mornings and getting all 3 kids and myself ready and off to our designated places in time, but I don’t think I should HAVE to.

Guess I’m just going to have to get over it. Beneath all of this anger is just loneliness and feeling like I have nobody to count on. Why can’t I just make peace with the fact that I’m physically capable of doing it all on my own and it’s clear that’s how it’s going to be for the rest of my life. I’ve been doing this for 6.5 years now, why can’t I make peace with it!
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First off, the idiom “burning a bridge” means eliminating an opportunity to connect with others, or to cut off the means for retreat. That is why people are cautioned: Don’t be too quick to burn your bridges. Unless you have in effect denied yourself the opportunity to pick your child up after school if you want to, I don’t see how you’re burning bridges, so far.

Sit down with your husband and have a talk about what the routine jobs are in your household. Make two lists: the time-tethered and the non-time-tethered jobs, including self-care such as getting yourself ready in the morning. For instance, doing laundry or grocery shopping is typically something one can fit in to one’s schedule at a variety of times, so although one can leave it undone long enough to make it an urgent job, it is not intrinsically time-tethered. Helping kids get off to school, OTOH, has to happen at a certain time frame in the morning, so that is time-tethered. Finishing meal preparation is time-tethered, driving to appointments is time-tethered, and for most people cleaning up after a meal is time-tethered. Salaried employment tends to be time-tethered, but not always.

When you make up this list, note how much time it actually takes to do that job, on average. You may have to literally time yourself a few times to know this. I think you’re going to find at least that you have stacked up a lot of time-tethered domestic chores, if not the lion’s share of domestic chores in general. Even if that is your life’s work–that is, even if you are a SAHM–it would be good to explain to your husband that doing all the time-tethered jobs by yourself can feel very stifling.

As you go through this list together, don’t just look for ways to get your husband to take on more of the “time-tethered” household workload. Also look at ways that time-tethered jobs can be taken out of the busiest time of the day. For instance, making lunches and laying out school and work clothes are chores that are often done in the morning, but that can often be transferred the work routine of the night before. It is still a daily chore, and if you move it to the prior evening, I’d still see it as a time-tethered job, but it may be that your husband can take some of the burden off of you by adding to his before-bed to-do list in the evening. Some of the prep work for dinner can fall into the same category. His morning might not change that much, but it might change your mornings a LOT, and also make you feel as if you have his help on a daily basis.
 
We tried counseling last year and DH only went twice. I even quit after just a couple of months. I realized that I was only going for gripe sessions, we weren’t making any action towards resolve. I can only talk to the counselor so much, the issue is btwn DH and I and that’s where the action needs to happen, she can’t fix things for me. DH’s words to me about going to counseling were “I don’t want to go to your man-bashing sessions.” Since our counselor was a woman, if she suggested ANY change to DH, it was a criticism on him that he’d already received from me enough times.

DH isn’t interested in ‘sitting down.’ I can sympathize b/c it seems like it’s always about ‘my’ needs, even if it has to do with the children or home. Taking care of the children’s needs is ‘my’ job. I’m the one who insists on having a dish-free sink, so that’s ‘my’ issue and I just need to learn to live w/ it. Home updates are frivolous and mean work for HIM. I’m tired of initiating everything, it makes me feel as though I’m the only one with issues that need attended to, therefore it’s on me to initiate resolve or get over it.

I’m tired of re-hashing the same junk over and over again and DH helps out for a week and then quits. Beneath all of this anger is just immense loneliness. None of my girlfriends can relate and so I’m too embarrassed to talk to any of them about it. And really, what good would it do? They can’t do anything about it and who wants to listen to a bitter woman anyway? I just can’t even respond when they talk about how great their husbands are and all they do.

DH normally sleeps on the couch b/c our bedroom is too hot and our bed is uncomfortable (home updates?). I wake frequently, waiting for him to come to bed and he never does until I get the kids up and the commotion wakes him; he gets up and goes to bed. Half the time he doesn’t even set his alarm, so I even have to get him up in the morning. It wouldn’t be fair for me to leave for work and not get him up, he’d get fired and it’d be on me since he’s totally incapable of getting himself up.

I started tiring out earlier and falling asleep on the couch and find I sleep much better there. It’s nice, even though I’m still sleeping alone as I did before, there isn’t the rejection attached and the annoying event of DH moving from the couch to the bed every morning instead of just getting up and helping. DH finally asked after 2 weeks if it’s b/c of something he did. Of course he asks me when I’m trying to sleep, so I pretended to be too tired to talk. His very next question? ‘Am I ever going to get laid again?’ Bingo, bottom line. The last time he ‘approached’ me I told him no b/c I had a very painful infection. He just rolled over and went to sleep, no cuddling, no sympathy. And I know things will only get worse when he gets his vasectomy and we don’t HAVE to abstain anymore.

It’s our turn to host his family’s monthly dinner and I just told him to cancel. He doesn’t help clean the house or keep the kids satisfied while I do all of the cooking. He lets the trash overflow onto the floor while we have company instead of taking it out. He complains about having people over b/c our house is too junky, but he won’t take any measures to make it nicer. And I’m not very tactful about putting on a smile and pretending nothing’s wrong. It’s an insult to me to put on a spread and never have a moment to sit down and do this for DH and then when everyone’s gone and I’m tired and need to rest, I’m left to clean up the mess by myself. I just plain don’t want to see or talk to anybody. I can’t even be civil at work when things are as they are w/ DH.
 
JLCecilia said:
We tried counseling last year and DH only went twice. I even quit after just a couple of months. I realized that I was only going for gripe sessions, we weren’t making any action towards resolve. I can only talk to the counselor so much, the issue is btwn DH and I and that’s where the action needs to happen, she can’t fix things for me. DH’s words to me about going to counseling were “I don’t want to go to your man-bashing sessions.” Since our counselor was a woman, if she suggested ANY change to DH, it was a criticism on him that he’d already received from me enough times.

DH isn’t interested in ‘sitting down.’ I can sympathize b/c it seems like it’s always about ‘my’ needs, even if it has to do with the children or home. Taking care of the children’s needs is ‘my’ job. I’m the one who insists on having a dish-free sink, so that’s ‘my’ issue and I just need to learn to live w/ it. Home updates are frivolous and mean work for HIM. I’m tired of initiating everything, it makes me feel as though I’m the only one with issues that need attended to, therefore it’s on me to initiate resolve or get over it.

I’m tired of re-hashing the same junk over and over again and DH helps out for a week and then quits. Beneath all of this anger is just immense loneliness. None of my girlfriends can relate and so I’m too embarrassed to talk to any of them about it. And really, what good would it do? They can’t do anything about it and who wants to listen to a bitter woman anyway? I just can’t even respond when they talk about how great their husbands are and all they do.

DH normally sleeps on the couch b/c our bedroom is too hot and our bed is uncomfortable (home updates?). I wake frequently, waiting for him to come to bed and he never does until I get the kids up and the commotion wakes him; he gets up and goes to bed. Half the time he doesn’t even set his alarm, so I even have to get him up in the morning. It wouldn’t be fair for me to leave for work and not get him up, he’d get fired and it’d be on me since he’s totally incapable of getting himself up.

I started tiring out earlier and falling asleep on the couch and find I sleep much better there. It’s nice, even though I’m still sleeping alone as I did before, there isn’t the rejection attached and the annoying event of DH moving from the couch to the bed every morning instead of just getting up and helping. DH finally asked after 2 weeks if it’s b/c of something he did. Of course he asks me when I’m trying to sleep, so I pretended to be too tired to talk. His very next question? ‘Am I ever going to get laid again?’ Bingo, bottom line. The last time he ‘approached’ me I told him no b/c I had a very painful infection. He just rolled over and went to sleep, no cuddling, no sympathy. And I know things will only get worse when he gets his vasectomy and we don’t HAVE to abstain anymore.

It’s our turn to host his family’s monthly dinner and I just told him to cancel. He doesn’t help clean the house or keep the kids satisfied while I do all of the cooking. He lets the trash overflow onto the floor while we have company instead of taking it out. He complains about having people over b/c our house is too junky, but he won’t take any measures to make it nicer. And I’m not very tactful about putting on a smile and pretending nothing’s wrong. It’s an insult to me to put on a spread and never have a moment to sit down and do this for DH and then when everyone’s gone and I’m tired and need to rest, I’m left to clean up the mess by myself. I just plain don’t want to see or talk to anybody. I can’t even be civil at work when things are as they are w/ DH.
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If you don’t have a copy of this book, get one as soon as possible. I’d send you a copy myself, but I sent my extra copy to another forum member last year. It will help you. Remember that you have choices, that no matter what another person does, you are not a victim, you just have to realize that you have choices.

p.s. Get a MALE counselor this time!
 
I just had Dr. Ray resounding in my head. He has said that the people who go around saying how much of themselves they give and never ask for anything are actually some of the most selfish people. This is how I feel when I need to gripe, selfish.

I made the mistake of griping about DH in front of his family before and he said something to me about it being embarrassing, so since then I keep my mouth shut. My problem is that I am SO tight-lipped, it’s pretty clear that I’m mad about something and I have the shortest response possible to any attempt at conversation. I take my frustration with him out on everyone else. Not too long ago his brother was over and he’s the only one in the family we’re both comfortable being canded with and I let some gripes out about DH. BIL stated that if his wife wants something from him, she’ll not cook for him or some other things. I just said, “I have no leverage over him. There’s nothing I can withhold that has any value to him.”

I’ve tried taking his computer, but when he blows up, I can’t deal with it and I give. Nevermind he doesn’t reciprocate this fear with MY anger towards HIM. BIL laughed when I said I had nothing and basically joked that every woman has SOMETHING (i.e. sex). That’s the only subject we’ve never breached publicly. I just thought to myself “any woman who thinks she’s holding sex over her man is only fooling herself.” Who am I to compare with the internet?

I wish more than anything I could just send him packing to his folks, I just don’t want to talk to THEM about all of this. And I know they’ll pay me/us an unnanounced visit to ‘talk.’ If I complain to them about DH, they’ll just shake their heads at him and what is that going to do in the way of changing him? He’ll just feel like one more person is against him and it’ll be all my fault.
 
TheRealJuliane, the link to the book did not work for me. What is the book called that you are recommending?
 
Easter Joy had some very good suggestions about time-sensitive vs. non time-sensitive chores. I’d also add that your husband seems to be especially bad in the morning. That’s probably the area where you have the least ability to budge him. I’d agree that you should see how many morning prep chores can be shifted to the evening, instead.

When you do see a counselor (or even if you don’t), I think you should mention that you are starting to think of him and treat him as a child (your getting him up and attempting to confiscate his computer). That’s one of the things that’s killing your relationship and your sex life.

Even if you don’t see a counselor, I think you should institute weekly meetings (maybe Sunday night?) to talk about the coming week and household needs. Keep a running list of “things that are hurting our quality of life” (like the hot bedroom) and try to make progress on your list each month. I think you should probably plan to outsource the work, if at all possible, because it’s just going to drive you nuts if he starts something and leaves a messy unfinished project.

Remember the rule that a happy marriage requires five positive interactions for every one negative interaction.
 
JLCecilia said:
. I just thought to myself “any woman who thinks she’s holding sex over her man is only fooling herself.” Who am I to compare with the internet?
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Does he have a porn problem?

Don’t complain to his family about him, that’s breaking a blood tie and rarely goes well. I love my MIL and I think she loves me, but if I cross the line and start calling down her son…ohhh it gets chilly pretty quickly!
 
He’s not a child, but he doesn’t get to be king, either, and decide that the domestic duties are “yours”. Taking care of children is his job. It is called parenting, and fathers do it, too. Keeping the kitchen at an agreed-upon level of cleanliness isn’t something that one roommate gets to unilaterally decide not to do. Even 20 year olds have to learn this: that is, when adults live together, they decide on how to get domestic chores done, when and how together, and that everybody had better be ready going in to make some compromises. So maybe you get to do the job of sink shining, because that is over the top to him, but maybe he still gets to do dishes to a level more exacting than he would like, because he has to meet in the middle, too.

I’d agree that reading up on how to draw boundaries and how not to draw them with other adults is a good idea. Having strategies and an idea about what kinds of goals are realistic can be a huge help in knowing what to accept, what to be resolved to change, and how to know the difference.
 
I actually enjoy my domestic work. I love my children, but I’d be happy if DH would just play w/ them while I worked merrily alone in the kitchen. I wouldn’t mind it so much if I didn’t have to work away from home as well.

My mode of operation tends to be ‘leisure must be justified by labor.’ I will work and work and work and maybe I get some me time that day, most days I don’t. DH tends to operate totally opposite. I don’t mind doing the dishes so long as they aren’t still there when I get up in the morning. I don’t mind doing the towels so long as DH will take 5 minutes to put them away. There is no good time to ask him to take out the trash, he’s always too busy: no time in the morning, only enough time to shower and get myself to work; too tired when I get home to do it first thing; once I’ve sat down to my evening activities, I’m not getting up and then it’s too dark. Me, on the other hand, I don’t sit down till my stuff is done (and it never is).

You know, there are 3 able-bodied children in this house, if DH doesn’t want to do the work, perhaps he can TAKE THE TIME to teach them how, but then there’s the task of getting them to do it. As I said before, when I’m mad at DH, I’m yelling at the kids. He can hear me, but he doesn’t get up to ask what’s wrong or rescue our poor children. It’s all my problem, I can deal with, he isn’t getting roped in b/c he doesn’t need to get yelled at b/c I’m being a rip again.
 
Can you make a list of must-do tasks for every evening and have him divvy it up with you? You can put in stuff like “15 minutes playing with the kids,” but prepare to discuss the question of whether watching a video with them or looking at funny cat videos counts. Listening to an audio book while hanging out in the kids’ room while they do block towers might also be his speed.

We as a household do not do dishes in the morning. I just make sure that the dishes get some water on them so they’ll be washable in the evening. That might be more your husband’s style.

I’m a homemaker, but my husband runs the dishwasher every night (unless deathly ill), watches educational TV with the kids before bedtime, reads to our 7-year-old, does light household maintenance (we’re renters), and takes out the trash (admittedly, irregularly). He also takes the two big kids for an outing more or less every weekend (I’m home with the baby) and involves the kids with his hobbies (astronomy, archery and woodworking). He is also not a morning person, but the kids are big enough to make their own lunches now (and occasionally their breakfasts), dress themselves, and bring their dirty clothes to the washer. Our division of labor has been a work in progress with lots of adjustments over the years.

Don’t give up on your husband. He probably sees you as an unreasonable taskmistress (which you probably are at least some of the time). With patience, you should be able to reassign some work both to your husband or your kids.
 
Oh, I hope so. At this point I’m just hoping he’ll take up the task of getting DS to his basketball practice and games. DH insisted DS take basektball and we paid the $35 fee, but has otherwise been totally uninvolved. I bought DS a basketball and I’m the one in the kitchen working with him in btwn cooking and dishes while DH is on the computer. DH has had the t.v. on a lot lately watching his fave team play but can’t even be bothered to play catch w/ DS during commercials.

I wish he could adopt a ‘to-do’ list mentality and see the house and kids as 30 minutes to knock off before cozying up to his computer every night. It would even be nice if he’d let one or two kids play blocks in the ‘office’ and keep an eye on them while I’m working, but he just wants to come home and shut the door (if we had one). I’ll admit that I rarely give the kids my complete attention, but I can help them out in the middle of whatever it is I’m doing.

Thank you for your reponse Xantippe, feel like I’m finally being talked back from the ledge which is just where I need to get before I TT DH, if he’ll talk to me tonight.
 
Xantippe said:
Can you make a list of must-do tasks for every evening and have him divvy it up with you? You can put in stuff like “15 minutes playing with the kids,” but prepare to discuss the question of whether watching a video with them or looking at funny cat videos counts. Listening to an audio book while hanging out in the kids’ room while they do block towers might also be his speed.
Don't give up on your husband. He probably sees you as an unreasonable taskmistress (which you probably are at least some of the time). **With patience, you should be able to reassign some work both to your husband or your kids.**
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I know you mean well, and this works for your household, but from what the OP says, she’s not at this point with her husband, and for her to “reassign” some work to him, means she is still playing Mommy or being the boss, and he is rebelling. They need some kind of help to start getting on the same page in their marriage. It will never work for her to take the lead and start “divvying up chores.” Her husband would have to buy-in to her plans, and I don’t think he’s going to do that.

JLCecilia, did you miss my question? Is your husband using porn? Why would you take his computer and then say that any man would not mind being deprived of sex because of the internet? If this is the case, you have more problems than just daily chores.
 
JLCecilia said:
I actually enjoy my domestic work. I love my children, but I’d be happy if DH would just play w/ them while I worked merrily alone in the kitchen. I wouldn’t mind it so much if I didn’t have to work away from home as well.

My mode of operation tends to be ‘leisure must be justified by labor.’ I will work and work and work and maybe I get some me time that day, most days I don’t. DH tends to operate totally opposite. I don’t mind doing the dishes so long as they aren’t still there when I get up in the morning. I don’t mind doing the towels so long as DH will take 5 minutes to put them away. There is no good time to ask him to take out the trash, he’s always too busy: no time in the morning, only enough time to shower and get myself to work; too tired when I get home to do it first thing; once I’ve sat down to my evening activities, I’m not getting up and then it’s too dark. Me, on the other hand, I don’t sit down till my stuff is done (and it never is).

You know, there are 3 able-bodied children in this house, if DH doesn’t want to do the work, perhaps he can TAKE THE TIME to teach them how, but then there’s the task of getting them to do it. As I said before, when I’m mad at DH, I’m yelling at the kids. He can hear me, but he doesn’t get up to ask what’s wrong or rescue our poor children. It’s all my problem, I can deal with, he isn’t getting roped in b/c he doesn’t need to get yelled at b/c I’m being a rip again.
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If you’re yelling at the kids, you are not dealing with it. You cannot change that you have human limits.

I understand about enjoying domestic work, but there is a limit. The same goes with parenting. If DH doesn’t want to do the work…well, since when has that had anything to do with the price of tea in China? He has work to do at home, the same as at his job. Enjoy it, don’t enjoy it…it still needs to be done, and “management” can’t sit around on their thumbs and expect a decent organization to result. Merely saying, “not my job” doesn’t make it someone else’s job, either. That is as true of your husband as it would be if it were your co-worker or even your supervisor at work who was trying to pull this number on you. Just as at work, you are not the only one affected, either!

So, let us say that your supervisor was not happy because you were “on the rip” about his failure to do his job. Would that make his job become your job? This is somebody up the hierarchy from you at your paid work, so this doesn’t have to do with being submissive. This has to do with the practical duties required to keep the place running. It has to do with the necessity of having leaders actually lead. After all, if you parents decided to quit cooking and getting the kids to school and to Mass, would they not have cause to complain? Of course they would! No matter where you draw the line about a man being the head of the house, that is beside the point. Your husband has work to do at home, and he’s failing. Of course you’re going to complain. He may not want to hear it, but that doesn’t make your complaint illegitimate.

He’s abdicating his duties as a husband and as a parent. I can appreciate that you want to take burdens off of your husband, and that is a great thing. Spouses who do that are praiseworthy. You have to ask yourself at what point you are making sacrifices so he can rest and feel taken care of and at what point you are facilitating a spiritual vice and a bad example for your children. That’s a question for you to answer, though. There isn’t a bright white line there. I think that imagining that you are now answering that question for your future daughters-in-law and sons-in-law, though, will give you a good place to start framing your answer. They’ll make their own decisions, but you still have an opportunity to be a force for good or for ill in the marriages of your children. You can be a model for those marriages and how these problems can best be handled. It is going to take some experience to find the answers, but you won’t be the only one who will be glad you did.
 
“JLCecilia, did you miss my question? Is your husband using porn? Why would you take his computer and then say that any man would not mind being deprived of sex because of the internet? If this is the case, you have more problems than just daily chores.”

Yeah, I was also a little worried about the go-into-office-close-door thing, especially since there are such things as laptops, and it’s really no big deal to carry one around.

On the other hand, (and equally plausibly), he may be an introvert and be totally fed up with being around people by the end of the day.
 
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