Business Ethics Related to Homosexual Unions

[Bookcat]

But all I was trying to say was I thought it was a bad idea to defend things on religious grounds. I mean I think people should be free to refuse to do things for any reason they want. I’m just not a fan of pinning everything in one corner.

And I said that was not the only grounds to note in such a defense. My point up above was that such is of course the Highest reason (for God is the highest reason) and yes there are many others (some of which I noted).

Anyway this is all off topic anyhow so we ought to leave it there.

 

[Trident_H]

And I said that was not the only grounds to note in such a defense. My point up above was that such is of course the Highest reason (for God is the highest reason) and yes there are many others (some of which I noted).

Anyway this is all off topic anyhow so we ought to leave it there.

Ok man. I get it. And I agree.

Peace.

 

[bobballen_18]

…If a guy marches down the street and says that he’s not letting gays into his donut shop because he’s Catholic we then have to put up with the Muslim saying he won’t let Christians into his butcher shop. Because they don’t have a long enough beard…

…But now let’s say the Catholic goes a bit further and says he won’t serve women who’ve had an abortion…

So now the Catholic bars girls with tattoos. Citing some passage in the Old Testament as proof positive that this is a sin. Then he blocks witches. And guys who aren’t Catholic. Then guys who aren’t Catholic enough.

…

These examples you’re giving, Trident, are not examples of aiding or celebrating an immoral act. Serving a “gay” person a donut or breakfast or whatever is not aiding in an immoral act. I don’t know about that Muslim example you gave so I’ll reserve comment on that one. Serving a woman who happens to have had an abortion is not immoral. That’s not being a part of the abortion. Serving a girl (or anyone) with a tatoo is not in any way participating in the act of getting a tatoo (I didn’t think that was immoral anyway…). Serving a non-Catholic is not being complicit in their non-Catholicism. Serving witches is not being complicit in their witchcraft. In all of the above, the question would only arise if it was made known that whatever service you were providing would be aiding in or celebrating something immoral.

In short, it’s not about giving basic services to people who have committed mortal sin in their past. It’s about celebrating or aiding someone else’s act of committing a sin. That’s where the question lies here - whether providing a cake for a homosexual union (for example) is celebrating in or aiding the immoral act of a homosexual union.

I really don’t know the answer. I’ve always thought it would be immoral to provide a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding, though Ron Conte’s post above seemed to make sense if it is true, where he thought providing a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding would only be “remote material cooperation” which could be moral. In any case, though, we have to be clear about what it is we’re actually refusing. I don’t think anyone here is arguing for denying someone a basic service.

 

[Trident_H]

These examples you’re giving, Trident, are not examples of aiding or celebrating an immoral act. Serving a “gay” person a donut or breakfast or whatever is not aiding in an immoral act. I don’t know about that Muslim example you gave so I’ll reserve comment on that one. Serving a woman who happens to have had an abortion is not immoral. That’s not being a part of the abortion. Serving a girl (or anyone) with a tatoo is not in any way participating in the act of getting a tatoo (I didn’t think that was immoral anyway…). Serving a non-Catholic is not being complicit in their non-Catholicism. Serving witches is not being complicit in their witchcraft. In all of the above, the question would only arise if it was made known that whatever service you were providing would be aiding in or celebrating something immoral.

Hey buddy. I was being ridiculous. I mean that’s my way in life. I like lining up ridiculous things. And pointing them out. So sure. If you want to get serious about it I’d have to use more an argument like denying witches access to dried herbs out of fear they’ll use them in their spells. Or not giving a woman with tattoos access to revealing shirts, to keep her from advertising herself like a billboard. Or not letting that non-Catholic have access to your sandwich shop because they sit there and convert your Catholic patrons. The points being that I don’t want people doing those things in the name of my religion. If they want to do them they can go ahead and do them on their own time. And on their own terms. No big deal.

In short, it’s not about giving basic services to people who have committed mortal sin in their past. It’s about celebrating or aiding someone else’s act of committing a sin. That’s where the question lies here - whether providing a cake for a homosexual union (for example) is celebrating in or aiding the immoral act of a homosexual union.

I really don’t know the answer. I’ve always thought it would be immoral to provide a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding, though Ron Conte’s post above seemed to make sense if it is true, where he thought providing a wedding cake for a homosexual wedding would only be “remote material cooperation” which could be moral. In any case, though, we have to be clear about what it is we’re actually refusing.** I don’t think anyone here is arguing for denying someone a basic service.**

But I mean I can see how you got on that track. I guess I was being about as unclear as I could be I guess. Because I’m the one making that claim. I’m the one saying that **I don’t see why people can’t just deny stuff if they want to. For whatever reason. **

I’m laying out that I don’t agree that using religion is the way to do this. I’m saying plainly that a guy should just have that ability to deny whoever he wants. For whatever reason. But. In doing that he should also deal with the consequences. That’s it. That’s the total of my argument. Done and done.

Hope everything’s going well for you man. Thanks for making those clear points. I mean it really was a nice outlay of ideas. It really helped me see where I was missing with what I was trying to serve. I’m sorry I just wasn’t being clear. But if I’d been going that way you’d be right on target. And I’d agree. Gotta keep me honest hey?

Peace bobballen. Happy New Year’s Eve

-Trident