But the Question is: Do Most Christians Go to Hell?

[blessedstar]

I did, and am familiar the with Jasenists. How is that even close to the same thing? You are talking about a pseudo-cult who obsessed with predestination, human sinfulness, and despair.

Some people on CA are merely saying, “Hell is real, you don’t want to be there. Some people probably are, but we have no way of knowing.”

That is quite a leap to label us with the Jasenists. Was the Holy Father being a heretic ealrier this year when he warned people that Hell is a real place that souls can end up?

Telling me most people go to hell is not Catholic teaching and it never will be. I’m not saying hell isn’t real, of course it is. That is not what people have been debating in this thread. Read the thread from the beginning and you will know why I have posted what I have. My post was not in response to your post so I hope that clears up any confusion or misunderstanding.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[He_Man]

Will do, and FWIW, I don’t suscribe to the notion that the majority of the dead go to Hell.

I heard when I was youunger that the Church believes that the majority of the dead go to purgatory. The second largest chunk go to Hell. The smallest chunk go straight to the Heaven.

But counting Purgators and Heavensent in one group accounts for a majority.

Plus, I don’t know if that was ever official, or heresay. I do know what Sr. Lucy saw at Fatima regarding Hell.

Either way, I agree with you.

 

[TMC]

Gee, here I was taught that Christ came to redeem all mankind. That His Death and Resurrection had salvic power for all people and all time. Maybe you’re right, and Jesus didn’t come for everybody. I don’t think that’s a Catholic belief, though. John Paul said:

1. The universality of salvation means that it is granted not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ and have entered the Church. Since salvation is offered to all, it must be made concretely available to all. But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church. The social and cultural conditions in which they live do not permit this, and frequently they have been brought up in other religious traditions. For such people salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his Sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.

Hmmm. So the non-Christians can make it? So how do I get some of this Grace that is available even to those funny hat wearing pagans? I think I’ll ask for it. Jesus said this once:

For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
What father among you would hand his son a snake when he asks for a fish?
Or hand him a scorpion when he asks for an egg?
If you then, who are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?" Luke 11:10-13

So that’s what I’m going to do, ask for it. Maybe you are right, maybe 9 out of 10 Catholics didn’t ask for Christ’s Grace the right way and ended up with the scorpion. I’m not too worried about it, though. I’m thinking I wouldn’t send my kid to Hell for not asking just perfect. But all I can do is keep asking, every day. I think that will be enough.

 

[He_Man]

I don’t think anyone is overly concerned with the statistics per se. But assuming the visions of Fatima are true, and the souls falling into hell were like snowflakes in a snowstorm, we can only assume that some DO end up there, sadly.

And that was what, 70 some years ago? Do you actually think the world has gotten better since then???

 

[St_Gabriel]

She also said her Imaculate heart would triumph.

 

[He_Man]

Yes, I agree, but that doesn’t imply that there couldn’t be millions or billions lost to Hell either.

Why can’t we simply admit Hell is real, god will triumph, there were at one time lots of souls fallling into hell (assuming we believe the vision of Fatima), and call it even.

I doubt anyone is too concerned with exact numbers, but acting as though we have nothing to worry about is disingenuous.

 

[IceCathedral]

I forget which saint said, “God save us from grumpy old nuns”, or something like that.

It was St. Teresa of Avila who said “O Lord, save us from sullen saints.” I agree with her

 

[St_Gabriel]

Yes, I agree, but that doesn’t imply that there couldn’t be millions or billions lost to Hell either.

Why can’t we simply admit Hell is real, god will triumph, there were at one time lots of souls fallling into hell (assuming we believe the vision of Fatima), and call it even.

I doubt anyone is too concerned with exact numbers, but acting as though we have nothing to worry about is disingenuous.

That’s just it. They don’t have anything to worry about if they are in a state of grace.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Why do people think it is a bad thing to fear God or to tremble while working out their salvation?

Look if Jesus The Word says “If your eye offends you pluck it out–it is better to enter Heaven without an eye than that your whole body enter Hell”–

Why shouldn’t any sane person just believe Jesus–Fear God and “tremble while working out their salvation” as Paul commands us to do.

It isn’t rocket science. If Jesus says “Few” then anyone who doesn’t believe Jesus and tremble at such words is just plain crazy!

Saying that Fear of God could result in despair and therefore we shouldn’t Fear God is as dumb as saying that we shouldn’t fear that we’d die if we step in front of a train!

Fear of terrible consequences is wonderful!

I’m glad that God gives us the gift of healthy fear!

Can fear be unhealthy? Of course!

Just don’t tell me that healthy fear doesn’t exist!

 

[St_Gabriel]

Why do people think it is a bad thing to fear God or to tremble while working out their salvation?

Look if Jesus The Word says “If your eye offends you pluck it out–it is better to enter Heaven without an eye than that your whole body enter Hell”–

Why shouldn’t any sane person just believe Jesus–Fear God and “tremble while working out their salvation” as Paul commands us to do.

It isn’t rocket science. If Jesus says “Few” then anyone who doesn’t believe Jesus and tremble at such words is just plain crazy!

Saying that Fear of God could result in despair and therefore we shouldn’t Fear God is as dumb as saying that we shouldn’t fear that we’d die if we step in front of a train!

Fear of terrible consequences is wonderful!

I’m glad that God gives us the gift of healthy fear!

Can fear be unhealthy? Of course!

Just don’t tell me that healthy fear doesn’t exist!

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (It’s in the Bible). Why? Because it leads to repentance. What happens after you repent? You still fear the Lord. You become aware of how awesome He is through His love and His mercy. The wonderful thing about about being Catholic is that you have that assurance that you have been forgiven in the confessional.

Jesus told the apostles whoever sins you forgive they are forgiven (I’m paraphrasing). So now once that happens, the sinner has been a new lease on life and is given hope. Fear of the Lord should not lead to despair.

 

[milde]

According to several saints/doctors of the Church, even most Christians do not make it to Heaven or even to Purgatory.

Yet being a Christian is the best way to avoid burning in hell. Is that correct? Or is that a bit of an oxymoron?

 

[Jestocost]

I’ll borrow from Peter Kreeft her and say that if I have 10 kids and one dies in childhood, too few made it to adulthood. God is our Father. Even if only one sinner goes to hell, God will mourn it. I’m not denying hell or sayig that a great many won’t go. Just saying that few does not have to mean less than half.

 

[distracted]

I know my sin offends my Lord,

Jesus spoke to this woman who lived (?) long ago… She wrote a book. He told her over and over that (something to the effect): He wants people to talk to Him, to tell Him everything. As a Catholic, i am not always strong about doing that but i am learning. Anyway, He hates sin but loves the sinner. What he hates more than the sin (i feel) is that we don’t give it to Him… 100%… as He wants us to give him everything.

I used to be so different, 10 years ago I lived by my own rules, my own way, nothing told me what to do, I would have laughed at all of you, and mocked you. But then He came into my life, brought me to my knees and broke me.

so nice to hear this.

Praying for you.

 

[distracted]

i am just wondering what all we are required to believe of what a canonized saint says. Actually, it wasn’t St. Leonard who said 5 in 33,000 go to Heaven, it was an arch-deacon that he quoted in a sermon.

Anyway, as stated elsewhere… the Virgin Mary at some apparition site or another was supposed to have said that most people go to Purgatory. Yet that seems to contradict what was told the children of Fatima.
With St. Faustina, we have been taught to immerse ourselves in Christ’s mercy… She came in the 30s, after Fatima… but, well, that shouldn’t make a difference…
there are some things we will just never know for sure…
All i know is that people can look so good on the outside, and yet be full of unrepented sin and even harbor hatred toward others… and unforgivness. Probalby many go to Hell for lack of totally forgiving his/her brethren… Jesus said that if you do not forgive your brothers - from your hearts - you will not be forgiven…

from your hearts… :coffeeread: :ehh:

 

[TMC]

i am just wondering what all we are required to believe of what a canonized saint says.

Nothing. They are declared saints because of the Church’s confidence that they are in Heaven, not because they were great theologians. More weight should be given to the Doctors of the Church, but even they are not absolutely authoritative on everything.

 

[Joysong]

i am just wondering what all we are required to believe of what a canonized saint says. Actually, it wasn’t St. Leonard who said 5 in 33,000 go to Heaven, it was an arch-deacon that he quoted in a sermon.

If it wasn’t St. Leonard’s own word, but that of an unnamed arch-deacon, why would anyone put credence in their truthfulness? Very foolish, unless it were solid teaching of the Church to believe this . . . and of course, it is not. It is merely speculation not worthy of attention. Christ Himself would not comment on the end times, saying this was known only to His Father. How much less would He or anyone else speculate on the number of souls in hell.

Nothing. They are declared saints because of the Church’s confidence that they are in Heaven, not because they were great theologians. More weight should be given to the Doctors of the Church, but even they are not absolutely authoritative on everything.

I agree, TMC. When the Church begins an inquiry into the person’s life, She solely investigates the degree with which the saint practiced HEROICLY the virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity, and to a certain extent, the Cardinal Virtues. Never is the decree of canonization based on their words, revelations, nor charismata.

As you stated, the exception is for a Doctor of the Church whose writings are considered eminently safe and worthy of following. There are only 33, and St. Leonard is not one of them. We need to exercise caution in putting too much belief in their words simply because they are canonized, especially if their words do not concur with the Church’s teachings.

I would like to see solid examples from the OP’s post regarding the testimony of 39 saints on hell, notably in the context of how few make it to heaven. Just saying so, doesn’t make it so.

 

[distracted]

If it wasn’t St. Leonard’s own word, but that of an unnamed arch-deacon, why would anyone put credence in their truthfulness? Very foolish, unless it were solid teaching of the Church to believe this . . . and of course, it is not. It is merely speculation not worthy of attention. Christ Himself would not comment on the end times, saying this was known only to His Father. How much less would He or anyone else speculate on the number of souls in hell.

HOw much would Jesus speculate?? Jesus doesn’t speculate, he knows.
Also, i feel it is disrespectful to call people “foolish”.

Apparently, Jesus agrees. He said that anyone who called his brother a fool (Raqa) is in danger of Hellfire…

 

[distracted]

Nothing. They are declared saints because of the Church’s confidence that they are in Heaven, not because they were great theologians. More weight should be given to the Doctors of the Church, but even they are not absolutely authoritative on everything.

Thank you very much.

I like Posters like you who get to the point in as few words as possible…

By the way, do you ever get the feeling most people believe waht they want to believe…?

 

[distracted]

But assuming the visions of Fatima are true, and the souls falling into hell were like snowflakes in a snowstorm, we can only assume that some DO end up there, sadly.

And that was what, 70 some years ago? Do you actually think the world has gotten better since then???

Very good point. In 1917, Mary said that (so many words) God was fed up with all the sin in th world… What words would one to use to describe conditions NOW?? Mary appeared more recently and said that this is the worst time in history for Sin.

We had all better hope that that 5 in 33,000 figure is off because that was back in the 11th century…

Of course, the Church has gone to all corners of the world now… so that gives us hope. But the internet has also gone to all parts of the world… and the internet is 80% porn… (or more)…
As Mary told us, we need to pray and offer up sacrifices / sufferings for sinners (conversions).
I pray everyone here is doing that…

 

[distracted]

Why can’t we simply admit Hell is real, god will triumph, there were at one time lots of souls fallling into hell (assuming we believe the vision of Fatima), and call it even.

But then, why would God intervene more at one time in history than another, saving more people in one era than another? That doesn’t sound too just…
Just wondering…

I wonder if the vision the arch deacon saw was the levels of Purgatory, which he thought was Hell???
The Jews always believed there were 7 levels of Hell… Its my understanding that 6 of those levels are actually temporary Hell (Purgatory)… But then, i don’t claim to have a lot of formal knowledge in theology…

Ibut acting as though we have nothing to worry about is disingenuous.

I totally agree.
Frankly, i worry more about those people who think we don’t have anything much to worry about… Something about that doesn’t set well with me…