But what if she just doesn't like children?

[JeffAustralia]

I still suspect that much of this comes down to lack of exposure to kids in smaller and non-extended families. In truly traditional Catholic countries, eg. the Philippines, or Italy (which may be changing these days, I don’t know), kids grew up in large families which always had little kids crawling and running around. They knew that the adults around them treated the birth of any new child as a great blessing, and knew that the children were the jewels of the family. They grew up bathed in love from everybody around them, and learned to love each new arrival (whom they shared in taking care of). A huge contrast to the seen-and-not-heard attitudes prevalent in non-Catholic countries. In countries like the Philippines you have trouble seeing the floor sometimes because of all the kids…so you’d better love 'em!

 

[puzzleannie]

monina:

Hypothetical situation:

A 20-ish woman is pondering her life, her goals, her aspirations. She hopes one day to find love and marry.

But what if she just doesn’t like children?

I understand Catholic teaching regarding marriage is that if one marries one should be open to children. That is, if one does not like the prospect of having children with her husband one ought not be getting married.

So is this woman doomed to a solitary life if she just does not have a desire to be a mom?

Surely there are thousands of women in this situation. I hate to think of a woman having children if she does not like children…

I can think of dozens of reasons why a person cannot or should not have children. If someonet thinks this applies to them the obvious solution is, don’t have children. Equally obvious, that rules out marriage for that person. I will point out that when people say they don’t like children, quite often they mean they don’t like the things people who complain about their own children are going through, or they don’t like the behavior of undisciplined brats among their own friends and family. Quite different when they are your own. Certainly someone who cannot have children can still get married, as long as the marriage act is possible, but since children are the good of marriage to get married with the deliberate intent to avoid pregnancy by whatever means is gravely wrong and probably invalidates the marriage.

 

[1ke]

monina:

Hypothetical situation:

A 20-ish woman is pondering her life, her goals, her aspirations. She hopes one day to find love and marry.

But what if she just doesn’t like children?

She is not called to the vocation of Marriage.

monina:

So is this woman doomed to a solitary life if she just does not have a desire to be a mom?

This question exhibits a profound lack of understanding regarding the nature of the Sacraments and specifically the Sacrament of Marriage. Sacraments are not rights, they are gifts from God. One is called to a vocation by God.

Not everyone is called to live in a marriage vocation. These people are not “doomed”. They are called to a different vocation.

monina:

Surely there are thousands of women in this situation. I hate to think of a woman having children if she does not like children…

A woman authentically called to marriage is called to a vocation of family.

A woman who is not authentically called to this life should not seek it.

 

[1ke]

monina:

BTW, when I wrote “doomed to a solitary life” I meant no insult to consecrated celibates or anyone else who wishes to be single. I said that this particular woman would be “doomed” since she aspires to love and marriage.

If a woman “aspires to love and marriage” but simultaneously does not want children-- then she should seek spiritual direction and counseling. A call to love and marriage is a call to children and family.

She cannot have an authentic call and at the same time reject the proper end of marriage.

 

[Dubervilles]

I don’t like them…I still felt “called” to marriage–and so I was married in the church. Perhaps someday my veiws will change (as I am only 23).
Personally I think it is a personal decision left up to you, your husband and to God whether or not you want children, how many ect…

 

[stinkcat_14]

A woman authentically called to marriage is called to a vocation of family.

Does this imply that postmenopausal women are not called to the vocation of marriage?

 

[Kendy]

Dubervilles:

I don’t like them…I still felt “called” to marriage–and so I was married in the church. Perhaps someday my veiws will change (as I am only 23).
Personally I think it is a personal decision left up to you, your husband and to God whether or not you want children, how many ect…

Dubervilles,

What do you mean you felt “called” to marriage? I know what it’s like to want to be married, but I just don’t know what people mean when they say they feel called to marriage?

Kendy

 

[DreadVandal]

Forest-Pine:

And what if neither of them actively seek outside NFP to forgo pregnancy, but after prayerful reflection neither of them believe they are in a position to bring children into the marriage at the time? Being open to life, according to NFP’s norms is quite different from desiring children. It is my understanding that the theological minimum for marriage validity would be a willingness to be open to life within the norms of NFP, which can include indefinitely avoiding pregnancy for grave reasons. Whether this would be a grave reason would depend on the couple and their spiritual counselor and would not be something we could give a generic answer for.

My personal view is that if they weren’t ready to have children to begin with, they shouldn’t have gotten married. NFP is for after you are married, if you need to space kids or postpone having another. It is not for avoiding your first child. If you know you are going to attempt to avoid pregnancy for a lengthy period of time, then there is no reason to get married.

 

[DreadVandal]

And, this hypothetical woman would not be “doomed” to anything. What she does is a matter of her own choice. Since it is not possible to validly contract a marriage with the intention of excluding children, then she is choosing a situation in which she will have to remain celibate, unless she wants to sin. I suppose I would tell this hypothetical woman to get over herself and get on with life. Its not about what we want, its about doing our duty.

 

[DreadVandal]

Dubervilles:

I don’t like them…I still felt “called” to marriage–and so I was married in the church. Perhaps someday my veiws will change (as I am only 23).
Personally I think it is a personal decision left up to you, your husband and to God whether or not you want children, how many ect…

If you married with the intention of not having children, then you are not validly married. If you get divorced someday, you’ll have no problem getting an anulment. I suppose that’s the good news.

 

[DreadVandal]

Kendy:

Dubervilles,

What do you mean you felt “called” to marriage? I know what it’s like to want to be married, but I just don’t know what people mean when they say they feel called to marriage?

Kendy

People don’t “feel” called to marriage. Marriage is an ethical instution and a sacramental covenant. People freely choose or don’t choose to enter into such a covenant with all of the moral obligations that attend to it. Its not about feelings. Its about rational, free choices and having the integrity to follow through with one’s obligations.

 

[DreadVandal]

stinkcat_14:

Does this imply that postmenopausal women are not called to the vocation of marriage?

Traditionally, postmenopausal women were discouraged from entering into a marriage, though not forbidden.

 

[DreadVandal]

Kendy:

I know a very generous medical student who doesn’t want children. She has a real passion for working in third world countries and knows that that kind of work would not lend itself well with raising a family. She is perfectly loving to her boyfriend, and she’d probably make a great wife.

Kendy

If she intends to exclude children she should not marry. And I hope she’s not being perfectly loving to her boyfriend now.

Why do people think that they have a right to this and that just because they want it? Isn’t anyone interested in making sacrifices, hard sacrifices?

 

[Kendy]

DreadVandal:

If she intends to exclude children she should not marry. And I hope she’s not being perfectly loving to her boyfriend now.

Why do people think that they have a right to this and that just because they want it? Isn’t anyone interested in making sacrifices, hard sacrifices?

She is not THAT loving…as far as I know . I just mean she is a kind person. The poster was implying that a woman who doesn’t want children would be selfish with everybody else, including her spouse.

I realize that it’s hard for some people to image, but having a longing for a companion of the opposite sex is not always accompanied with a desire to be a parent. Loving one’s spouse might be enough.

As far as sacrifice, are there not other ways to live sacrificially. One of the reasons my friend doesn’t want to have children is because she wants to work as a doctor in Africa. This is hardly going to be a lucrative venture for her, but it will require her to travel often in what might be dangerous places. Not ideal circumstances for raising children.

In fact, I believe she thought she would not get married ever, but she loves her boyfriend and he loves her.

Kendy

 

[DreadVandal]

Kendy:

She is not THAT loving…as far as I know . I just mean she is a kind person. The poster was implying that a woman who doesn’t want children would be selfish with everybody else, including her spouse.

I realize that it’s hard for some people to image, but having a longing for a companion of the opposite sex is not always accompanied with a desire to be a parent. Loving one’s spouse might be enough.

As far as sacrifice, are there not other ways to live sacrificially. One of the reasons my friend doesn’t want to have children is because she wants to work as a doctor in Africa. This is hardly going to be a lucrative venture for her, but it will require her to travel often in what might be dangerous places.

In fact, I believe she thought she would not get married ever, but she loves her boyfriend and he loves her.

Kendy

I respect the sacrifice she is making and the difficulty of her situation. My point was that having children (or at least being open to having children and not positively excluding them) is a requirement for marriage. If one’s life decision or life circumstances prevent one from assent to that requirement, then one should not marry.

 

[Kendy]

DreadVandal:

I respect the sacrifice she is making and the difficulty of her situation. My point was that having children (or at least being open to having children and not positively excluding them) is a requirement for marriage. If one’s life decision or life circumstances prevent one from assent to that requirement, then one should not marry.

It must nice to have definitive and absolute answers to what some of us find to be tough questions. In a way, I envy you; so, much is settled. But in a way I find it worrisome; no room for “what if?”

Mostly, I just find it strange that you find wanting to get married, but not necessarily wanting to have children so hard to imagine. Maybe, the desire is disordered. I don’t believe that, but I am open to the possibility, but I just know that it is so real for so many people.

Frankly, I am pretty indifferent to having children. If my husband wants to have children, then we’ll have children. But I think I would be okay with not having children. On the other hand, I am not at all indifferent to being married. The thought of never having a husband would be devastating. The thought of never publishing a book would be more devastating. I have no such feelings about raising a family. Maybe, I will one day, but right now, it’s easy for me to separate one from the other— marriage and children.

For my friend, the thought of not being a medical missionary would probably be devasting as well.

Does God put these passions on our heart? I don’t know, but they certainly make life complicated.

Kendy

 

[Catholic2003]

Maybe she should find a sterile man to marry. From canon law:

Canon 1084 §3 Sterility neither prohibits nor nullifies marriage, without prejudice to the prescript of can. 1098.

 

[Kendy]

Catholic2003:

Maybe she should find a sterile man to marry. From canon law:

Now, I don’t understand why if children are the indeed the end of marriage, why sterility would not prevent one from getting married?

Kendy

 

[DreadVandal]

Kendy:

Now, I don’t understand why if children are the indeed the end of marriage, why sterility would not prevent one from getting married?

Kendy

Because sterility is no one’s fault, it’s not something willed. Also, it isn’t intrinsically irreversable. But the couple still has to have the intention of being open to having children. So, if someone were to intentionally go out and look for someone who was sterile, then I would think that would be sinful.

 

[DreadVandal]

Kendy:

It must nice to have definitive and absolute answers to what some of us find to be tough questions. In a way, I envy you; so, much is settled. But in a way I find it worrisome; no room for “what if?”

Mostly, I just find it strange that you find wanting to get married, but not necessarily wanting to have children so hard to imagine. Maybe, the desire is disordered. I don’t believe that, but I am open to the possibility, but I just know that it is so real for so many people.

Frankly, I am pretty indifferent to having children. If my husband wants to have children, then we’ll have children. But I think I would be okay with not having children. On the other hand, I am not at all indifferent to being married. The thought of never having a husband would be devastating. The thought of never publishing a book would be more devastating. I have no such feelings about raising a family. Maybe, I will one day, but right now, it’s easy for me to separate one from the other— marriage and children.

For my friend, the thought of not being a medical missionary would probably be devasting as well.

Does God put these passions on our heart? I don’t know, but they certainly make life complicated.

Kendy

I can certainly imagine wanting to get married and not have children. There are all kinds of things I can imagine. I have a question for you: Are you Catholic? The reason I can give the answers I give is that I am simply following the teachings of the magisterium. Is it always easy? No, not always. Is it possible that one will have to make sacrifices and experience some emotional pain by being faithful to Church teaching? Yes, not just possible, but inevitable. Emotional pain is not intrinsically bad. It helps us to stop focusing on what we want and what we feel. Our feelings should be the last place we consult when making decisions. They usually lead us astray unless they are grounded in objective truth.