But what IS worship?

[JanR]

Perhaps this was a very humble angel, and John may have prostrated himself not in worship, but in reverence and awe – and the angel didn’t even want those honors. Even if it didn’t rise to the level of worship, the angel may have wanted all honors to still go to God

It could be interpreted that way.

Interpreted that way, one could say that kneeling or prostrating oneself isn’t actually worshiping, but simply showing reverence and humility.

So, if one kneels before a statue of Mary or a saint, it could be said that one is honoring in a humble and reverent manner, while attending Mass and receiving the Eucharist rises above that and worships God.

I think that’s where the distinction can be found.

 

[JanR]

Because we live in a physical/material world, we are in an environment where physical senses come into play in every aspect of our lives.

Therefore, it’s necessary for people to actually see – visually – representations of the abstract. Hence, statues – something concrete and tangible to represent what is abstract and intangible. They help us connect.

Most of us keep pictures of loved ones in our wallets, or on our walls in our homes, for basically the same reason. We want to look at those we love and admire, even when they aren’t personally present. When we or they are away, we can still visually connect.

In genealogy, we cherish photographs of deceased ancestors and relatives, because those pictures help connect us with our roots.

And that’s why we have icons in the Church. We don’t kneel or bow to the statue or picture per sae. We are reverencing the saint they represent, and the visual aspect the icon provides helps bridge the gap between the seen and unseen.

If we lived in a totally spiritual world with no physical senses, icons of any type wouldn’t be necessary. We would be able to connect outright. But while we’re on earth, we must use the concrete and tangible to help convey the abstract and intangible in such a manner that we can actually perceive the latter.

Visible icons help us both perceive and connect with that which lies beyond the scope of our physical senses.

Does this help?

 

[adf417]

Intent is not always sufficient. Scripture also tells us that one can think one is doing the right thing but that thing may lead one straight to death.

I never said intent was always sufficient. You might need to re-read what i wrote about - asking me what i am bowing to.

You can see this today in some Catholic circles in which Mary is prayed to far more than our LORD is mentioned.

I suppose we could spend our free time playing golf more or maybe instead of saying a rosary we might watch more tv. Can saying too many rosaries be worst than watching too much tv? This seems really silly to me. Is it possible you might be jealous of how much Catholics spend in devotions?

I can imagine that Mary is called upon more readily for protection than the Lord in times of duress.

And you would be wrong.

So, like I said, you should be forgiving of those who misunderstand where you stand in regards to Mary. It can easily be misconstrued.

I am quite forgiving of those and i think they should be more open to our actual worship, honor, and reverence of whatever they might have a problem with.

But like i said before, you might want to reconsider this paradigm of how you view other’s worship based on their actions. I dont think you will like this when turned around on your actions/non actions. Not to mention you might want to consider the fate of Socrates and how it played out in his lack of action of worship/not worship.

Peace

 

[adf417]

Only if you are suffering from prideful ignorance since it wouldn’t be a great leap, understanding what worship means, to realize that all things are not always visible to oneself. If you accept that spirits or invisible entities can exist then to say one cannot worship that which cannot be seen is not a rational conclusion.

I agree. Now apply that principal to Catholics.

I believe it should. You’re missing the fact that you’re not simply bowing and worshiping Jesus or Mary in spirit, you are adding other externalized actions into that worship. This may be the inclusion of a statue or the use of a particular phrase etc.

And you are missing the fact that worship is from the heart and there is no worship when it comes to Mary. You can infer worship all you want but it aint there. You really need to start with this fact 1st.

As far as adding other external items for inclusions… do you not keep a cross handy for your devotional times? I suppose it is possible you dont but i know many non-Catholics that do.

Peace!!!

 

[adf417]

Also what you do should be considered in the light of what’s in your heart. If what’s in your heart is good intention but what you do has been shown to be wrong then what you do should be reanalyzed.

Thank you for your concern, and i have reanalyzed many times to the conclusion that those that have shown it to be wrong, just have it wrong themselves. After all, as i have already said, my worship is just that, my worship and no one can tell me that my worship is something it is not. You do agree with this concept, right?

Of course I’m not inferring here that what you do is wrong I am merely establishing the relationship between the two things.

Of coarse not.

If you feel something is wrong but perform the action anyway or if you feel something is right but fail to act on it then in either case you have failed in the good of the soul to act in accordance with Gods will.

Agreed!

These things typically take place over centuries while we don’t notice until it’s upon us because humans most readily think on a yearly basis within one generation. We most easily recognize change when it happens within our natural lifespans. We think that if nothing has noticeably changed within our lifetime then it hasn’t ever noticeably changed within many lifespans.

I understand. I really do.

Anything is possible I suppose. I do often wonder how much my particular dispositions in the world effect what I question and why. Is it possible though that you are reluctant to agree with anyone that challenges the world view that you have developed no matter what contradicting information is given you?

Yes i am - when they are the judge of these matters. But Isaiah 55:8 reminds me that ““For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD.”

Do YOU ever question whether you are jealously guarding an untenable position out of pride?

Yes of coarse. The question is do you believe me?

I often wonder if my Pride gets in the way of wanting to see the truth which is readily available to me. I can only hope that God brings me to where I need to be in my understanding and gives me the ability to embrace the good.

:+1:t3:

Peace!!!

 

[adf417]

I have become increasing aware you really just dont care what i say about “my worship”, which is what you are trying to change.

The problem with many people is that they get so steadfast into what they’ve habitually been doing all along they forget to look up to see if they are really on the narrow path to truth. Its not the amount of reanalyzing that you do its the fact that you’ve considered a reanalysis of your position “many times” in the first place that is of importance.

These are very good words to heed.

Peace!!!

 

[adf417]

God keep you in all his ways.

Amen and thank you for this blessing. May the peace and glory of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and your family on this most glorious Easter day/season!!!