Buying cigarettes for underage friend?

[thunderboom]

Hey guys,

Just a quick question so I can figure out whether to receive the Blessed Sacrament tomorrow. A note at beginning of post: I’ve been warned by my confessor that I’m at times beginning to approach scrupulosity, and other people have told me that if I’m not sure whether it’s a mortal sin, then it’s not. Here’s the situation: my friend, less than two months under the legal minimum age for cigarettes, needed some smokes. I used my ID to buy her one pack. It occurred to me beforehand that I was breaking the law, but I didn’t really think about it much (and I was a little tired), and just bought the smokes. I would never deliberately commit a mortal sin - I love Our Lord too much to ever do so - but now I’m wondering if I did just that. Maybe that very thought means I didn’t commit a mortal sin, but I don’t know (and remember, I think I have a problem with scrupulosity). I just really didn’t put much thought into what I did (althought I refused to buy her alcohol. Should I receive tomorrow? I’ve in the past harmed myself by not receiving the Eucharist out of a scrupulous attention to something that wasn’t even a sin! I don’t know what to do .

Thanks guys, and I appreciate the comments. I’m inclined to think I didn’t commit a mortal sin. I used to think that when in doubt, don’t receive for fear of offending the Lord (a good attitude), but now I think that it takes a heck of a lot of effort to deliberately commit mortal sin, and so if in doubt (and especially for the borderline scrupulous), don’t worry about it beyond the appropriate contrition for a venial sin.

 

[Trishie]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm
1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it. ***Under the particular circumstance I would believe this is the level of sin. You intended kindness although it isn’t a kind thing to discourage honesty and aid an unhealthy habit. You know well that this wasn’t your intention. You acted toward a perceived ‘good’ that was intended as kindness to a friend, though not a true good. ***]

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:
When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner’s will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.130

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131 ***I don’t believe that you had deliberate intent to cause harm]

---

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice…

Now that you’ve thought about it you have a responsibility never to do this again or the sin would be graver. In charity, if the question arises again quietly tell your friend that in conscience you cannot abet dishonesty, and you have no desire to aid in supporting a harmful addiction/habit.

May God continue to bless you.

 

[thunderboom]

Trishie,

Thank you so much for your reply. You articulated well the reasons I feel I have not sinned mortally. I didn’t intend to harm her or my soul; and you’re right, my obligation is deeper next time. Thank you very much, because your analysis of my actions and the Catechism have helped me very much.

 

[Qoeleth]

No, smoking is not a sin. The Pope smokes.

One could argue that it is an extravagance and a luxury. To that extent, it is sinful- but no more sinful that Coca Cola or coffee.

Now, if it is not wrong for adults, why should it be wrong for people under 18?

 

[thunderboom]

No, smoking is not a sin. The Pope smokes.

One could argue that it is an extravagance and a luxury. To that extent, it is sinful- but no more sinful that Coca Cola or coffee.

Now, if it is not wrong for adults, why should it be wrong for people under 18?

Maybe because we’re supposed to follow the just laws enacted by legitimate authorities? And maybe because using my ID to buy someone else’s cigarettes is implicitly lying? I don’t know; and though I know I sinned, I think Trishie showed me I didn’t separate myself totally from God with this act.

Thanks.

 

[Qoeleth]

Maybe because we’re supposed to follow the just laws enacted by legitimate authorities? And maybe because using my ID to buy someone else’s cigarettes is implicitly lying? I don’t know; and though I know I sinned, I think Trishie showed me I didn’t separate myself totally from God with this act.

Thanks.

Equally, if you friended needed the smokes, it could be considered an act of charity. It could also be considered an act of solidarity with the marginalised. Maybe you showed the face of Christ to your friend in your kindness and non-judgmentality.

 

[thunderboom]

Equally, if you friended needed the smokes, it could be considered an act of charity. It could also be considered an act of solidarity with the marginalised. Maybe you showed the face of Christ to your friend in your kindness and non-judgmentality.

Thanks, but I don’t think it’s that deep . My friend just wanted to know if I could buy her some smokes, and without much thought I did it. I’m just kind of scrupulous about following rules, and in retrospect it seemed like I seriously sinned. But you guys pulled me out of my malaise, I think.

 

[Qoeleth]

Thanks, but I don’t think it’s that deep . My friend just wanted to know if I could buy her some smokes, and without much thought I did it. I’m just kind of scrupulous about following rules, and in retrospect it seemed like I seriously sinned. But you guys pulled me out of my malaise, I think.

Hey, if I had declined to buy smokes for a friend I would proably feel that I had sinned- thinking along these lines:

And the King will say, “Go away from me, ye accursed of my Father. For I was needing a smoke, and you refused me.” And the unrighteous will say, “When Lord, did we refuse to buy you smokes.” And the King will say, “Insofar as when you refused one of the least of my brethren, you refused me.”

If you realise that, whether you say yes or you say no, you will feel guilty- that reflects a well developed conscience.

 

[ChibiViolet]

Maybe because we’re supposed to follow the just laws enacted by legitimate authorities? And maybe because using my ID to buy someone else’s cigarettes is implicitly lying? I don’t know; and though I know I sinned, I think Trishie showed me I didn’t separate myself totally from God with this act.

Thanks.

Yeah, so it’s a venial sin.

 

[Ropata]

I can’t comment on the sin issue, as I don’t believe in sin, but there is a health issue - take every opportunity to discourage smoking!

 

[thunderboom]

I can’t comment on the sin issue, as I don’t believe in sin, but there is a health issue - take every opportunity to discourage smoking!

You’re right of course - about the health issue

 

[thunderboom]

Yeah, so it’s a venial sin.

Thanks. I did mention I’m a little scrupulous?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Okay, let’s be a little analytical.
Smoking is, in no way, a mortal sin.
It’s against human law to sell cigarets to minors,
so you may have venially sinned, but nothing more than that.

As to the health issues,
despite the hysterical claims on both sides, (and the tobacco industry side is doing most
of the deceiving, claiming that nicotine is not addictive, which it most certainly IS ),
cigaret smoking, modestly, (NOT heavy smoking) is not much more dangerous than drinking two or three COKES a day. THAT could do you harm, too, especially to your kidneys, bladder, pancreas (all that sugar coupled with caffeine) and of course, your teeth. If you are diabetic, cola drinks (sugared) could KILL you.

Is smoking always deadly dangerous? To some people, yes.
A lot of cancer depends on a person’s genetic predisposition to developing it.
Donna Summer did not smoke cigarets. She died of Lung cancer.
My sister had a male high school friend, under 18, who did not smoke or come near lit cigarets. At his young age, HE was stricken with Lung Cancer.
My grandmother smoked full strength KENT cigarets and lived to 97 and died of old age
(although dementia had set in and she, bless her dear heart, would say the
most LOONEY things toward the end).
On the other hand, newscaster Peter Jennings smoked for over 20 years or more,
then quit, for over 10 years. After 10 years, though healthy, he started smoking again.
Almost IMMEDIATELY, Jennings developed an extremely aggressive Lung cancer and died very quickly. There is something common about people getting lung cancer, and quickly, if they start back smoking AFTER having quit for several years if, before they quit, they were heavy smokers for many years. This is mysterious as to why the body would react that way, but there are increasing numbers of cases of this.
in no way is smoking cigarets “good” for you. If nothing else, it “cuts your wind,” making regular healthful exercise much more difficult. Plus, even moderate cigaret smoking will coat your lungs with “tar” which takes many hours to “leave” your lungs. If you smoke off and on throughout the day, every day, your lungs have not time to “renew” themselves, and the tar builds up, even if you only smoke say, 10 to 15 cigarets a day or less.
So it’s never “GOOD” for you. But moderately, well, there are a LOT WORSE things you could do to your body. Marijuana, once thought to be harmless, was discovered a few years ago to have 10 times as much carcinogenic property as tobacco cigarets. That surprised all of us who grew up in the 70s!!!
Orientals smoke a LOT, yet you rarely hear of widespread lung cancer outbreaks in Oriental countries. This may have a lot to do with the combination of harmful things. Orientals, for example, are very LIGHT on the eating of red meats etc. Meat, though eaten, is not eaten (like here in the West) in large portions. Their diets are high in fiber, vegetables, grains, legumes and fish. This “good diet” thus doesn’t exacerbate, as our western diet DOES, the dangers connected to tobacco smoking.
If you don’t smoke, try not to start.
If you DO smoke, don’t feel like a mortal sinner, because you are not. But do try to stop, for your overall health’s sake.
And no, in buying cigarets for your friend, you did NOT commit a mortal sin.
When underage, I bought my own cigarets all the time from the drugstore, the grocery store, the Cuban sandwich y cafe shops, you name it, and nobody – NOBODY – ever refused me. And I LOOKED under-age.

 

[Et_Cetera]

It’s well known and well documented that cigarettes are terrible for one’s health.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

As for the possibility of it being mortal sin because it’s against human laws,
that’s not at all necessarily true.
We SHOULD always respect all legitimate laws that are NOT against God’s laws.
True.

But there are things that are against the Law that ARE mortal sins, such as in most places, yes still, ADULTERY, that the Laws are never enforced though still on the books.

Minors buying cigarets, too, is something that cops know is happening rampantly.
They never, or almost never, hang out at the drugstore trying to catch the clerk selling a kid a pack of cigarets. When I was a kid, and LOOKED very much under-age, I smoked, and smoked right in front of police officers, sometimes chatting with the officers while I puffed on a cigaret or two, and not one officer ever said, or even hinted at, any displeasure at seeing a CLEARLY-UNDERAGED kid smoking away right in front of him. Not ONE of the officers EVER said a mumblin’ Word. Not a syllable. The selling of cigarets TO ME as a minor was illegal, which meant, ipso facto, that it was also ILLEGAL for me to be smoking them (( Back then, I never thought that through !!! )), yet they never even told me, not even once, to so much as extinguish the cigaret, let alone surrender my pack and bend over and spread 'em. They have much bigger fish to fry.

There are also laws, I was surprised to learn, declaring some absolutely not sinful at all things to be “felonies.” In Florida, a young boy and his buddy were sitting by a backyard canal, when a small alligator came RUNNING up out of the water and chomped down, hard, on the child’s leg. Blood was POURING out of this little kids leg. He and his friend wrestled the fairly-small gator’s jaw open and loosed it, then grabbed the gator, carefully, and hobbled home with it, and had his parents call the animal control squad and the police, as this was a DANGEROUS and aggressive Reptile. Here is this poor little kid, bleeding profusely, and the cop arrives and smirks demandingly to the kid, HOW OLD ARE YOU??? ((again, forget the blood pouring out of his little leg)).
The kid said, I think, Twelve. And the cop, with no concern for the blood pouring out of this poor young kid’s leg, shot back at him You’re LUCKY you’re not a year OLDER, because if you WERE, I would charge you with a Felony!!
This really happened, last year. A felony, for bringing the dangerous gator a half a block to his home for the PURPOSE of calling the police and animal control !!
What a jerk. And he was serious.
And if he HAD charged the poor bleeding kid with a “Felony,” that wouldn’t change, at all, the FACT that this kid had in fact not committed so much as ONE IOTA of sin, mortal OR venial. Not even Venial. Yet he could have been sent to Juvenile Hall by this on-a-power-trip redneck Florida cop. ((Most police officers are FINE people, but a few ARE power-trip Jerks)).

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**It’s well known and well documented that cigarettes are terrible for one’s health. **

I am not at all denying that cigaret smoking is not good for your health.
But I will not repeat over-reactions, either.
Smoking creates several health problems. The tar coats your lungs.
The nicotine makes you want repeated cigaret “fixes,” guaranteeing that you
will continue to coat your lungs with the tars. This is not good at all.
But marijuana is far, far, far more dangerous, and nobody knew that until recent years.
Growing up, I smoked cigarets, tobacco cigarets, usually SALEM brand (full strength or “lights”, it didn’t matter, but usually full strength).
Many of my friends ABHORRED tobacco cigarets and cigaret smoking, would “read me the Riot Act” for doing it, but THEY smoked Marijuana. While not “Pot Heads” by any stretch of the imagination, they did like to have, every day, at least one marijuana joint, to relax and loosen-up after all their studies and study hall and homework assignments.
(( these were, by the way, kids from well-off families, who belonged to all the high school fraternities and honor societies and got all the terrific grades, not wild eyed junkies )).
But they were PROUD that they did not smoke “those damned Cigarets that give ya’ cancer,ugh !!” and would actually brag that they smoked pot INSTEAD. Not unreasonably for, though we were always encouraged to NOT smoke pot, we were constantly told in school that pot was NOT HARMFUL, did NOT cause cancer and was NOT habit-forming.
It was just, well, against the law to sell, buy, or smoke it, but most kids did. MOST.
If you asked my cigaret hating friends if they Smoked, they would reply, proudly,
“Well, NOT Tobacco !!” Well, in recent years, they have learned to their shock and horror that they were smoking something over 10 times as carcinogenic as tobacco.

My point is not to claim that smoking cigarets is in any way harmless, but these studies showing a direct correlation between cigarets and lung cancer, for example, are usually not taking into account OTHER equally important factors, namely, family history of cancer, type of diet, and a host of other factors that contribute to the ruin of a person’s health, especially taken together WITH smoking.
Things that smoking WILL DO, that you should also think about, are promote unhealthy clumping of your blood platelets, it’s rough on your kidneys because your kidneys have to work twice as hard to expel the multitude of chemicals present in cigarets made from processed tobacco (bathed in chemicals, and ALL American made cigarets ARE).

No, cigarets are not good for you. But neither are cola drinks, too much coffee, highly sugared foods, WHITE BREAD is HORRIBLE for you and directly contributes to Colon Cancer, yet it is in no way a mortal sin to eat bread made from white flour. All processed grains create simple carbohydrates which contribute to the development of deadly Diabetes. Point is, there is a LOT of things that we do, that can be and are VERY bad for our bodies, that are not mortal sins. Red Meat (even all natural, organic, non-factory farm cattle red meat) is horrible for your body (it clogs the intestines and directly contributes, through it’s rotting process, to the release of carcinogens into your gut and bowels, yet God Himself gives us all permission to eat Red meat, and Christ Himself removed all restrictions, for his followers, against eating pork (which is a very dangerous meat to eat and can cause you to become infested with worms among many other serious risks). Scripture is clear: HE (Jesus) declared ALL foods “clean,” i.e., permssible for his Followers to eat. And as he MADE these foods, he knew and knows, the health risks associated with eating them.
We have to be modest and temperate in everything we do, that’s my point.
There are many other co-factors that cause smoking to be very dangerous, not
moderate smoking alone. It ain’t good for you, at all, but it’s not the worst thing you can do to your body, either. There are a lot worse things, things that do IMMEDIATE and serious damage to you. Smoking, even heavily, takes decades usually for the harmful effects to start really showing up.
But don’t do it if you can avoid it. Don’t.