Buying office and Apostolic Succesion?

[Wesrock]

I’m reminded of Jacob’s blessing, too. I’d say he started wrong. He lied and manipulated his father and brother in order to obtain his blessing (through the laying on of hands). Once it was realized, it couldn’t be undone. Esau begged for a blessing, any type of blessing, but it was gone and effective despite Jacob’s guile, and Isaac would not bless Esau. Yet Jacob, despite his selfish beginnings, changed in his exile, and he wrestled with God through his journey (literallt and metaphorically), until he came back a new and better man.

While I do see similarities between the Levitical priesthood and the Apostolic priesthood drawn out, I’ve also seen it said that there are stronger comparisons to the Patriarchal blessings and leadership. The title “Father,” “elder,” etc…

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Helps a little. We are all sinners, but we are not all saved. I don’t see Peter and Judas in the same category.

I just don’t see anything in scripture, where a process or profession is valid, without the heart of at least the receiver in the right place. Often the state of the heart or faith seems the ONLY thing that makes the difference.

What I see the church saying is the process is valid, even if heart of both parties is totally wrong. This makes it about the ceremony, not the faith.

Not so much the ceremony, but more the promise Jesus gave to the Church.

God never breaks covenant so when He says it, you can take it to the bank. And He said the church wouldn’t fail and He gave her authority. Matthew 16:16-19

But that doesn’t mean there wont be hiccups. To this day there are problems in the Church, but instead of breaking like Luther did, we should take the Michael Voris approach and reform from within.

 

[Markie_Boy]

Not so much the ceremony, but more the promise Jesus gave to the Church.

God never breaks covenant so when He says it, you can take it to the bank. And He said the church wouldn’t fail and He gave her authority. Matthew 16:16-19

But that doesn’t mean there wont be hiccups. To this day there are problems in the Church, but instead of breaking like Luther did, we should take the Michael Voris approach and reform from within.

Yes - totally agree that when there are problems, reform within is usually better than just splitting.