BVM assumption?

[ConstantineTG]

I am reasonably well acquainted with Protestantism and don’t know a single Protestant group that teaches the Assumption, a doctrine defined by Pius XII in 1950. Their argument is that there is no reference to it in scripture and that it gradually grew out of Catholic theology and not from the Bible. The exception may be a few high-church Anglicans. I recall an Episcopal church near Times Square - St. Mary the Virgin - that could embrace the Assumption, though I’m not sure.

The Dormition is a long held tradition dating back to early Christianity. Dogmas usually come out of Ecumenical Councils when it defines belief to combat heresy. The Assumption was dogmatized to combat the growing heresy spread by Protestants that the Theotokos is unimportant and never received any special treatment from God.

 

[TimothyH]

(2) Even that experience at the temple raises questions. How could a devoted mother be unaware that her only son wasn’t with them until after traveling a day’s distance from Jerusalem? (3) In the two references to Mary - Matt. 12:46-50 and John 2:4 - Jesus could seem to be a bit dismissive of his mother. Re-read them and see why they may think that.

I would like to address these two claims specifically. it is vitally important that we not read modern culture and societal norms into the Bible.

Extended families were much closer in those days. They did not move all over the country but congregated very close, living in the same towns and establishing their own neighborhoods, worshipping together, defending each other, and resolving civil disputes on their own to the extent that it was possible. Often times they lived in a single residence with grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins all under one roof. Extended families were so close that the Aramaic language didn’t even have words for cousin, aunt or uncle but instead used the tranliterated form “His mother’s sister” for aunt and similar. It is not out of the question that any mother and father would have assumed that Jesus was with an aunt, uncle or his cousins in those days.

The word “Woman” as used by Jesus was a term of respect. Again, it is important that we not read our own culture into scripture and assume what things mean based on our own experiences. We have to think like a first century Jew. The term would have more closely meant “Maam” or “Madam”.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

In all the letters of Paul and other epistles Mary is not mentioned once. It would seem logical that if Mary was to be so central in the Church the epistle writers would have at least made reference to her.

The fact that Mary is not mentioned int he eplistles proves nothing except that Mary had nothing to do with what the author was writing about.

For example, Paul’s letter to the Phillipians was written to Christians in the city of Phillipi. This was a city named after Phillip, the father of Alexander the Great, where retired roman military officers and those who distinquished themselves in service were given land and homes. This was a very orderly and disciplined city and the Christians were no different. Paul’s letter uses many military terms - obedience, fighting side by side, final victory - and Jesus mother simply has nothing to do with the subject.

What is logical is that the absence of mention does not prove that it did not exist or that it was not important.

-Tim-

 

[Roy5]

I understand, of course, why Catholics must disagree with the points often made by Protestants.

However, I admit that it seems strange to me - even permitting cultural differences - that Mary and Joseph would have traveled a whole day’s journey from Jerusalem before noticing that Jesus, only 12, was missing. It often was a dangerous journey. And, then, when they returned to the Temple and found him (I believe that was three days later - a bit odd, too?), they scolded him and he, in effect, scolded them. Even then I would have thought that his parents would not have left him in Jerusalem, would not have had to search three days before finding him in the temple, and they would have treated each other with more obvious love than Luke seems to suggest.

Otherwise, a story I loved as a child.

As to woman meaning madame, okay. But the response of Jesus (John 2:4) is still a bit unusual. “Why do you involve me?” In Matt. 12, he seems to diminish the uniqueness of his mother. “Who is my mother…?” Etc.

Now, if Mary was so prominent in early Catholicism, as she is now, it"s hard to imagine that all the epistles could be written, often on theological issues, and never once mention Mary. I don't recall even going to mass and not hearing the name of the Blessed Virgin Mother..

Anyway, my point is simply that different Christians have different beliefs, and I'm ready to respect them. What I have trouble respecting is bigotry and bitterness among fellow Christians, whether exhibited by Protestants or Catholics. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier. We should discuss our differences in the spirit of understanding and love, without an attitude of arrogance or an air of superiority.