By 2015, European deaths will be greater than births; Russian population declining by 750,000/year

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By Hilary WhiteBRUSSELS, August 29, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Population statistics and projections were released yesterday showing that European countries are dying out, even with immigration, their populations aging and shrinking. A report released this week by Eurostat, the European…

Full article…
 
I really don’t understand why people don’t want children. Does anybody have anything to offer concerning that?
 
I really don’t understand why people don’t want children. Does anybody have anything to offer concerning that?
It is the Materialist and Relativistic society we live in. To the Relativist and the Materialist, children are not of value and are, in many cases, are considered a burden.

The “Population Control” genocide crowd are getting their wish, they are destroying the human race.
 
The only point I disagree with in the article is that countries will turn to “territorial expansion” to increase populations. In fact, territorial expansion occurs when there are too many people. The implosion of Europe and Japan will occur here in the States. As the Islamic world is migrating to Europe, the Hispanic world, led by Mexico, is migrating to the United States, and the Chinese are migrating to Siberia. As the Prophet said in another context, “A new people inherits the land, and still it is not we.”
 
I really don’t understand why people don’t want children. Does anybody have anything to offer concerning that?
I realize that there are folks here who like to pigeon hole everyone with some sort of selfish motivation for anything the poster doesn’t agree with (there is one a post or two above this one, for example), but I for one never wanted children for a variety of reasons, none of which has to do with material wealth. Instead they have to do with emotional and mental health. I am bipolar, had a emotionally unavailable dad who killed himself, had a serious codependency problem for a lot of my adult life, was sexaully molested as a child, and more. The sum is that I suffer serious clinical depression and often can’t take care of myself let alone a child, my codepenency made it impossible for me to find a decent relationship and I’ve never been able to fully trust a man due to my experiences as a child. The sexual molestation scarred me as well and I’ve never been able to see sex as anywhere near “holy”. I bring up these painful facts to demonstrate why it is a really, really bad idea to presume why total stranger do anything at all. In my experience, most people do the best they can. 😦
 
I really don’t understand why people don’t want children. Does anybody have anything to offer concerning that?
I can’t understand how anybody could not want children or want to have more than two children.

In other words, I can’t imagine how anybody could not want to be just like me.
 
By Hilary WhiteBRUSSELS, August 29, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Population statistics and projections were released yesterday showing that European countries are dying out, even with immigration, their populations aging and shrinking. A report released this week by Eurostat, the European…

Full article…
The area of the Netherlands is 41,526 sqkm, it has a population of 16,570,613. If the US had the same population density as the Netherlands, it would have a population of close to 4 billion.*

Similarly, if the US had the same population density as England, it would have a population of 3 and three-quarter billion.

Should the Netherlands or England be worried about a certain level of population decline in and of itself?

It’s all very well talking about the problems of population decline but what of population growth - take Italy, for example, where would the water come from (Italy has severe problems with water availability)? Should the whole of Southern England become just one metropolis? How much of the North Sea would the Netherlands have to reclaim?
  • Arguments that a significant proportion of the US is incapable of high population density can be countered by the fact that a quarter of the area and two-thirds of the population of the Netherlands live below sea-level.
 
I really don’t understand why people don’t want children. Does anybody have anything to offer concerning that?
Many reasons really, for myself I just never really wanted them. I can see really no good in my life that would come from having them. But I can see that it would likely impact my life very negatively. Now that is a pretty simplistic explanation but what it comes down too is plain and simple I and many other people just do not have any desire for kids.
 
I realize that there are folks here who like to pigeon hole everyone with some sort of selfish motivation for anything the poster doesn’t agree with (there is one a post or two above this one, for example), but I for one never wanted children for a variety of reasons, none of which has to do with material wealth. Instead they have to do with emotional and mental health. I am bipolar, had a emotionally unavailable dad who killed himself, had a serious codependency problem for a lot of my adult life, was sexaully molested as a child, and more. The sum is that I suffer serious clinical depression and often can’t take care of myself let alone a child, my codepenency made it impossible for me to find a decent relationship and I’ve never been able to fully trust a man due to my experiences as a child. The sexual molestation scarred me as well and I’ve never been able to see sex as anywhere near “holy”. I bring up these painful facts to demonstrate why it is a really, really bad idea to presume why total stranger do anything at all. In my experience, most people do the best they can. 😦
Certainly, I can understand this on an individual basis. I have difficulty, however, understanding how enough individuals can decide, in the absence of severe privation, against having children to cause the population to drop. Populations have diminished before, but always because of external causes. The lack of replacement births in European countries is not due to external causes. It’s due to decisions on the part of an unprecedented number not to have children at all or to have too few to keep the population stable.
 
Certainly, I can understand this on an individual basis. I have difficulty, however, understanding how enough individuals can decide, in the absence of severe privation, against having children to cause the population to drop. Populations have diminished before, but always because of external causes. The lack of replacement births in European countries is not due to external causes. It’s due to decisions on the part of an unprecedented number not to have children at all or to have too few to keep the population stable.
I donlt really know the answer to this either but I think technology and what not has a part to do with it. That and money among other things. Unlike a couple hundred years ago or even a hundred years ago there is no longer a whole lot of advantage to having a ton of kids. Most people donlt live on farms anymore and most that do have the use of machinery to do much of the work that would have required many people before. Not to mention with medical advances most children born will make it to adulthood whereas before many would have died in infancy or early childhood. And now with medical costs and other things raising a lot of children can cost a ton.
Course most people still decide to have children something which I admit I myself have trouble understanding just as you have trouble understanding it seems why more people donlt want large families or any children at all. Most people it seems have maybe two or three kids at most though. Probably due to various reasons such as the cost of raising kids, having to go through pregnancy and birth, having not only money to raise your kids but to have some comforts of life too, and I am sure there are a bunch more. But the reasons people donlt have kids or only have a few are probably as varieted as there are people.
 
I donlt really know the answer to this either but I think technology and what not has a part to do with it. That and money among other things. Unlike a couple hundred years ago or even a hundred years ago there is no longer a whole lot of advantage to having a ton of kids. Most people donlt live on farms anymore and most that do have the use of machinery to do much of the work that would have required many people before. Not to mention with medical advances most children born will make it to adulthood whereas before many would have died in infancy or early childhood. And now with medical costs and other things raising a lot of children can cost a ton.
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 Course most people still decide to have children something which I admit I myself have trouble understanding just as you have trouble understanding it seems why more people donlt want large families or any children at all. Most people it seems have maybe two or three kids at most though. Probably due to various reasons such as the cost of raising kids, having to go through pregnancy and birth, having not only money to raise your kids but to have some comforts of life too, and I am sure there are a bunch more. But the reasons people donlt have kids or only have a few are probably as varieted as there are people.
Likely the farming thing has something to do with it, but people had more children a few decades ago, even after the population had been mostly urban for a generation, and after the vast majority of children survived. Something else must have changed.

Certainly, there is the cost of raising children. You cite the comforts of life one can enjoy without children or with few. No doubt there are many reasons people have fewer children per couple than they once did. But people would have always been motivated to have or not have children for varied reasons. But when whole populations start to decline, one is inclined to look for “macro reasons” rather than “micro reasons”.

Is it as simple as opting for an easier life with more discretion in spending one’s income? Have most (or at least more) people simply opted for that?

Back to the farming economy. In some ways things change, and in some ways they don’t. Long ago, children were helpers on the farm, doing a substantial amount of the labor. The “middle generation” did the most demanding labor. The elderly did less demanding labor; child care, gardening, a fair amount of cooking, repairs. That was a fairly simple “intergenerational compact” by which each aided the survival of all.

There is still an “intergenerational compact”, but it’s now different. Children are not expected to work in any significant economic sense. They are expected to become independently supporting at a point in time. Then there is a disconnect within families, but there is still a “compact”. Not many in their prime working years directly support their parents or grandparents. However, they do so indirectly, in that everyone pays social security and Medicare taxes into a common pool that is then redistributed to the elderly. Clearly the pool of productive laborers is shrinking relative to the older people whom they support. But the younger group composed of children is also shrinking relative to the productive laborers. Unless technology is somehow able to make up for it, it seems the “intergenerational compact” is headed for disaster.

A long time ago, I read that if the child tax deduction had been adjusted for inflation based on what it was when Truman was president, the deduction would have then been $20,000 per child. Doubtless it would be more now; perhaps $30,000. That would certainly take a lot of parents off the tax rolls and perhaps ameliorate the cost of raising children. The “marginal rates” were higher then as well. It would be ironic, then, if conservatives, many of whom decry the paucity of children yet support lowered tax rates, would do better to support raising the child tax credit significantly and perhaps raising marginal rates as well.

Lowering tax rates, which allows people to keep more of their earnings, but failing to increase deductions or credits for children, does, indeed, reward those who make significant incomes but who decline to have children. Unfortunately, as above noted, this also tends to skew the “intergeneral compact” which, one might conclude, exacerbates the effect. As a productive worker’s obligation to support greater numbers of elderly who are not his own parents increases, his disincentive to have significant numbers of children to support, also increases.
 
Interesting report - Ireland now has the highest net population growth since the 1870’s. The population seems to be increasing by about 80,000 people per year - a drop in the ocean for many big countries, but apart from Dublin, most Irish cities have a population of around 100,000 or less, so an annual increase the size of an average Irish city is quite a big deal! The increases can in part be attributed to immigration especially from Eastern Europe and Africa over the past number of years, but statistics show that the numbers seeking residency in Ireland are currently falling. So most of the population growth is due to births - in fact a constant news item here is the huge strains that are being put on our maternity wards and hospitals. Thankfully, for some time to come we should have one of the most youthful populations in Europe - the question is how sustainable will this growth be in 20 years time when the ‘baby-boomers’ are pouring out of school looking for jobs… Having said that, while we have now the highest population since the Famine of the 1840’s (currently about 4 million), we’re still a long way off the pre-famine population which was about 8 million - so I suppose we’re not quite at breaking point just yet…
 
  1. Other listed it above. Kids were once a financial asset. Now they are a liability in the current economic system. Like it or not, money drives a lot of decisions.
  2. Contraception and abortion. I read not so far back that 1 in 4 pregnancies is aborted. In the African American demographic, it approaches HALF. Add in the relatively cheap, ‘effective’ and plentiful contraceptives out there, and at least another 25% of the kids that would have been born 200 years ago drops out.
A whole lot of the economy is based on the assumption of growth. Take that away and replace it with contraction PLUS adding on the expenses involved with a higher aged/young ratio and the global economy is in for some rough weather in the next 100 years.
 
Interesting report - Ireland now has the highest net population growth since the 1870’s. The population seems to be increasing by about 80,000 people per year - a drop in the ocean for many big countries, but apart from Dublin, most Irish cities have a population of around 100,000 or less, so an annual increase the size of an average Irish city is quite a big deal! The increases can in part be attributed to immigration especially from Eastern Europe and Africa over the past number of years, but statistics show that the numbers seeking residency in Ireland are currently falling. So most of the population growth is due to births - in fact a constant news item here is the huge strains that are being put on our maternity wards and hospitals. Thankfully, for some time to come we should have one of the most youthful populations in Europe - the question is how sustainable will this growth be in 20 years time when the ‘baby-boomers’ are pouring out of school looking for jobs… Having said that, while we have now the highest population since the Famine of the 1840’s (currently about 4 million), we’re still a long way off the pre-famine population which was about 8 million - so I suppose we’re not quite at breaking point just yet…
I don’t know whether it’s mainly the “foreigners” who are having the babies or whether it is the native Irish. But in either event, I cannot think it’s a bad thing for Ireland.

Having been of the same general age as the “baby boomers” in the U.S., I think I can tell you what it will be like when they hit the job market. Iniitially, it’s a bit tougher than when there is a “baby bust”. But a rising tide raises all boats. Those “boomers” will, after a short while, be in their most productive years; full of energy and ideas. They’ll do just fine. I will say the times might be a tad inflationary after a few years, because young families spend a lot and borrow a lot. Just part of building a life.
 
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