Byzantine Catholicism vs. Latin Catholicism?

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choy said:
well, like i said, its biased to the norm

if you enter 100 Roman Catholic parishes, how many parishes would fit those described, and how many parishes would have EF/TLM?
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I agree with you there, but I personally believe that the way the OF is offered today, doesn’t really fit what Vatican II had in mind… in theory, it should be something else and more faithful to (Roman) Catholic theology. That’s why I mentioned more traditional forms of the NO and the TLM. 🙂 because they represent Roman Catholic theology more accurately.
 
Monica4316 said:
I don’t know… I just kind of disagree with the pics, because they make it seem like the Latin Mass is very contemporary and is all about “community”, - but that’s the more liberal view… and if you go to a reverent Novus Ordo or a Tridentine Mass, there’s Gregorian Chant and the priest faces the high altar and it’s very traditional… and the emphasis is different… I just find the pics a bit biased, sorry:o
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Truth. Mass at my parish has an Organ, not a guitar(which feels kind odd imho).
Plush my church looks very old on the outside (made from hand laid stone).
 
Maybe you could make a separate thread if you want to discuss the pros and cons of that flier, how well it does/doesn’t represent the Latin Church.

OP is a new poster here in the Eastern Catholicism section, “been in [Latin Church] Catholic school my whole life”, looking for information on our ECCs/OCCs. 🙂
 
AndrewA said:
Truth. Mass at my parish has an Organ, not a guitar(which feels kind odd imho).
Plush my church looks very old on the outside (made from hand laid stone).
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sometimes i wonder if the Latin Rite should have sub-Rites. because its so wide spread, in many places the Latin Rite has integrated with local traditions. and now with migration, these traditions are brought elsewhere that may be alien to some people

coming from the Philippines, the use of guitars in Mass is natural. if a Filipino would know how to play an instrument, chances are its a guitar. you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who can play the organ or even a piano or even a modern keyboard. but many play the guitar. its part of the culture.

anyway, thats going into in-depth analysis of the Latin Rite in different parts of the world and thats not the topic at hand
 
Those posters make me sad, because that is for all practical purposes what the Latin Rite has become, while most of the old and venerable traditions have been abandoned. There was actually more similarity between the rites before the destructive Latin liturgical revolution’s guitars, tambourines, clapping, dancing and all.
 
awatkins69 said:
Those posters make me sad, because that is for all practical purposes what the Latin Rite has become, while most of the old and venerable traditions have been abandoned. There was actually more similarity between the rites before the destructive Latin liturgical revolution’s guitars, tambourines, clapping, dancing and all.
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read the bottom of the second image

“The faith is the same, but we express it differently”
 
choy said:
sometimes i wonder if the Latin Rite should have sub-Rites. because its so wide spread, in many places the Latin Rite has integrated with local traditions. and now with migration, these traditions are brought elsewhere that may be alien to some people

coming from the Philippines, the use of guitars in Mass is natural. if a Filipino would know how to play an instrument, chances are its a guitar. you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who can play the organ or even a piano or even a modern keyboard. but many play the guitar. its part of the culture.

anyway, thats going into in-depth analysis of the Latin Rite in different parts of the world and thats not the topic at hand
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Long ago, I assisted in a Mass with electric guitars and drum set near the altar. In other Masses, called Folk masses, we sang the song “Let it Be”. I played nylon string guitar at Mass and lived a half hour from the Mexican border back then.

It is very different than Carpathian Plainchant in a Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
 
I saw that leaflet earlier this year, and while there is nothing wrong with the way it portrays the Byzantine Rite, I consider it rather negative in the way it describes the Latin Rite, even if alot of it is true.
 
Seamus_L said:
I saw that leaflet earlier this year, and while there is nothing wrong with the way it portrays the Byzantine Rite, I consider it rather negative in the way it describes the Latin Rite, even if alot of it is true.
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Considering that it reflects, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the usual, garden variety OF, I can’t say the chart is negative in the least.
 
It’s correct in practice. If you go to your average parish, that’s how things will be. Lax, irreverent, man-centered, etc. However, I really wonder whether that’s the way HH the Patriarch of the West thinks Latin practice should be. It’s definitely not like that at his masses, and it’s certainly not what Vatican II was all about.
 
Vico said:
Long ago, I assisted in a Mass with electric guitars and drum set near the altar. In other Masses, called Folk masses, we sang the song “Let it Be”. I played nylon string guitar at Mass and lived a half hour from the Mexican border back then.

It is very different than Carpathian Plainchant in a Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
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yes it is. i can understand why some people like to hold onto tradition, but its also good that we include whats new. the Church is living, therefore the culture within it evolves in time. because we are the Church. we should be able to show that what is here and now is also good, not only things of the past. one problem i see is that some people may think that what is good is only in the past, therefore everything that is here in the world today is bad. but that is not true. when the particular Churches were established, they did not take only age old traditions, but included what is current. and as the Church continues to live today, i do not see why we cannot include what is current with old traditions.
 
awatkins69 said:
It’s correct in practice. If you go to your average parish, that’s how things will be. Lax, irreverent, man-centered, etc. However, I really wonder whether that’s the way HH the Patriarch of the West thinks Latin practice should be. It’s definitely not like that at his masses, and it’s certainly not what Vatican II was all about.
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nothing in that “flyer” says that the OF is irreverent. why do people keep saying it is. why i’m not saying that there are no irreverent practices, i just am bothered why some people are quick to judge OF as irreverent just because they prefer the EF
 
Never even mentioned the EF. Never said the OF is in itself irreverent. I said most of the time it is done irreverently and man-centered, sort of how the flyer presents it. The Holy Father’s OF is always reverent and beautiful. I like the OF. I go to a reverent one on Sundays sometimes. However, I have to drive 40 miles to get there. The average mass down the block is nearly sacrilegious. The Eastern Churches don’t have this problem, and that’s why I love the Divine Liturgy. I can go and not have to try and ignore everything by praying my rosary.

We’re not somehow being more charitable or anything by being tolerant of anti-sacred elements introduced into the liturgy. Being modern is not equivalent with being banal. We should stop with this evil relativism. There are modern settings of the Mass that are beautiful and can preserve the sacred. The Holy Father uses these. There are also settings which do not preserve the sacredness, and that is the majority of them. There other things which are profane and which are constantly introduced. Grace is given in proportion to our disposition. And if we are in a profane mood during Mass we cannot receive the same amount of grace.
 
choy said:
nothing in that “flyer” says that the OF is irreverent. why do people keep saying it is. why i’m not saying that there are no irreverent practices, i just am bothered why some people are quick to judge OF as irreverent just because they prefer the EF
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The concept of “reverence” is relative. Many will automatically say the OF is “irreverent” just because it’s not the EF. Although I do not like the OF (and never have, from its inception), I won’t go that far. I will, though, say again that the focus of the OF is very different than that of the EF (and of the Byzantine or other Oriental liturgies). That difference in focus can (and often does) have a bearing on one’s perception of “reverence.”
 
OF= Ordinary Form, the Mass of Paul VI, as introduced in 1970. Most common.
EF= Extraordinary Form, the Mass of John XXIII, as introduced in 1962. Less common.
They are the two expressions of the Roman Rite, the main rite of the Latin Church. If you’re interested in the details of the differences try “Roman Rite”, “Tridentine Mass”, and “Mass of Paul VI” in Wikipedia.
 
well, i know many people who actually do some good in the world. not like me who just likes to read stuff then argue over here at CAF. these are people who at least in a small part live the life that Jesus asked them to live. and these people go to OF masses.

we often forget that the Mass is a Mass (or Divine Liturgy). we are so concerned over the form but neglect the essence. we equate reverence in the form, but what is important that we capture the essence of the Mass, the sacrifice of Christ, the coming together of all believers in Communion with the Church and with Christ. if you go to Mass and then go out into the world and live the life that Jesus wants us to live, then didn’t the Mass serve its purpose? doesn’t it prove that the Mass is good? no matter what the form
 
awatkins69 said:
OF= Ordinary Form, the Mass of Paul VI, as introduced in 1970.
EF= Extraordinary Form, the Mass of John XXIII, as introduced in 1962.
They are the two expressions of the Roman Rite, the main rite of the Latin Church.
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you will also hear other terms, Novus Ordo, which would also refer to the OF
and TLM or Traditional Latin Mass, which is also the EF

the offfical terms are OF and EF.
 
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