Byzantine Catholics and the Rosary

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Only partially related, and in no way answers your question.

Growing up, my parents and my mum’s parents had a Rosary hanging in their rear-view mirror. When I got my first car, I hung up a Rosary as well; I plan to hang one back up again whenever I get another car.

Mind you, my family (at least the ones mentioned) is Lutheran. :eek:
I wonder what it means? 😛
It COULD mean they were high Church Lutherans (especially from Sweden). Such Lutherans from the European continent do have a devotion to the Rosary (as did Martin Luther himself and there are early portraits of him and other Lutheran leaders holding rosaries). There is the Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary and one of its member, Rev. Neville Ward, a Methodist minister, wrote a book on the Rosary, promoting its use and offering meditations on its mysteries entitled: “Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy” - an excellent spiritual read!! In addition, John Wesley himself kept a Rosary on his person, given to him by a Roman Catholic family that lived near him.

Alex
 
👍 I remember hearing somewhere that Mother Teresa claimed to be always saying the Rosary. She prayed it so much that it became grafted to her heart (to use Eastern terminology). But you are certainly correct. The rosary and the Jesus Prayer are just different. One is not worse than the other. I believe even some of the Orthodox Fathers would be appalled at the thought of folks claiming one is superior to the other. For them prayer is prayer and all prayer has but one goal; communion with God.

St. Theophan the Recluse wisely pointed out that one should choose a prayer or form of prayer that best serves to “draw the head into the heart.” This is often different from person to person. But the main thing is that we “stand before God with the head in the heart” and there commune with Him, contemplate Him, and allow Him to nourish us and mould us according to His image and likeness.
My intention in saying “separate planes” was never to suggest one is superior but they are “different” and employ a different spiritual methodology. As you yourself have written, one uses images or mysteries while the other focuses simply on the Name of our Lord.

Alex
 
Well, I think the two are on separate planes.

The Eastern Churches expect all Christians to invoke constantly the name of Jesus in the Jesus Prayer (as did St John Chrysostom and the other Fathers).

But let’s take a look at the Rosary itself. It originated in the Coptic Thebaid where saints would use various types of prayer counters (including knotches on their staffs) to pray 150 Our Fathers and Hail Marys and other prayers as a kind of replacement to the Psalter itself (although there were also those who memorized one psalm and recited it 150 times).

St Seraphim of Sarov was actually not, in all likelihood, influenced by the Western Rosary. The reason is that he not only promoted the 150 Hail Marys divided into decades, but also the ancient 150 Our Father’s or “Pater Noster Psalter” as it was called in the West. This is why in St Seraphim of Sarov’s version of the rule of the Theotokos, there is only one Our Father at the beginning, but none at the head of each of the decades . . .

And St Seraphim of Sarov did NOT include mysteries to meditate on during the recitation of his rule of the Theotokos - that was done by St Seraphim Zvezdinsky, a Russian Old Believer Archbishop (who was in union with the ROC), who was shot by the Bolsheviks in 1937 and who had a great veneration for St Seraphim of Sarov (whose name he took as a bishop and whose icon of the Virgin of Tenderness he wore as his episcopal Panaghia).

This New Martyr liked to include a Troparion that most closely coincided with the Mystery under consideration and this is the version that is included in the prayerbook I have but also in the Encyclopedia of Orthodoxy published at Moscow in 2003.

St Seraphim of Sarov, great mystic he was, said that he received visions from our Lady who urged him to promote the Rule/Rosary of the Theotokos and that THIS form of prayer is one that she places higher than any other as a way to invoke her protection over our lives and her intercession on our behalf!

At Diveyevo Monastery, there is the tradition of walking around the pathway that surrounds the great Monastery while reciting the Rule of the Theotokos (in some cases, I’ve read that this also includes the 150 Our Fathers). The nuns there do it together and on feast days they sing the Hail Mary’s.

But this is a private, not a liturgical prayer practice and is never recited in Church as such. It would not be in keeping with Eastern Church practice to pray it out loud in Church before Divine Liturgy for instance - no one is stopping anyone from praying it in private or in a group outside of that context.

There is also nothing wrong about adopting the Western Mysteries of the Rosary including the Mysteries of Light.

I love reciting all 20 decades of the Rosary daily with additional “tags” reflecting the Mysteries inserted toward the end of our Hail Mary. So far, I’ve felt no inclination to cross myself in the Latin way as a result, or to genuflect or even to take up the study of Latin so I can pray the Tridentine office . . . 😉

There were Orthodox Saints who also prayed the Hail Mary as their form of the Jesus Prayer i.e. they continually recited the Hail Mary and were called “Elders of the Theotokos.” In the Way of the Pilgrim, the pilgrim meets a fellow who said the Hail Mary daily and he advised him to “always and continually pray that prayer to the Most Holy Theotokos.”

We shouldn’t worry - the Mother of God always takes us to her Son and when we are filled with thoughts of her and how glorious she is, that is when our Lord particularly finds our souls a worthy abode for Him! As St Theophan the Recluse said, just as mothers nourish their earthly children with their milk from their bodies, so too does the Mother of God nourish us, her children, through Holy Communion . . . Devotion to her, he wrote, is not like devotion to any other Saint . . .

As Phillip the Master Beadsman said, RC devotion to the Most Holy Name of Jesus is very inspiring. St Francis of Assisi, for instance, whenever he said the Name of Jesus, would stop and then put out his tongue to lick his lips. He said that when we say the Name of Jesus reverentially, it is like spiritual honey exploding in our mouths and we must take care to lick up any that might have dripped out onto our lips . . .

Alex
Warm Alex,

you have made my day:rotfl::rotfl::extrahappy::extrahappy:

deep peace
 
My intention in saying “separate planes” was never to suggest one is superior but they are “different” and employ a different spiritual methodology. As you yourself have written, one uses images or mysteries while the other focuses simply on the Name of our Lord.

Alex
I’m sorry if I gave the impression that you claimed one was superior to the other. 😊 I didn’t mean to at all. I was referring to a general sense that I’ve come across from others who promote the Jesus Prayer in contrast to the Rosary. But, as you and I both know, the there is no contrast or contradiction between the two, only the full harmony of a well-tuned symphony. 😃
 
I never understood how the Rosary works, stupid me 😊
Anyone wants to explain it to me?
 
Warm Alex,

you have made my day:rotfl::rotfl::extrahappy::extrahappy:

deep peace
Cheers! 🙂 And “Warm Alex” was my late father’s nicname for me - it is actually the popular name for today’s old calendar feast of “Warm Alex” (my Namesday) since st Alexius the Man of God’s day was usually a warm one (and today it is not).

Alex
 
I’m sorry if I gave the impression that you claimed one was superior to the other. 😊 I didn’t mean to at all. I was referring to a general sense that I’ve come across from others who promote the Jesus Prayer in contrast to the Rosary. But, as you and I both know, the there is no contrast or contradiction between the two, only the full harmony of a well-tuned symphony. 😃
Amen, Master Beadsman! (I will get around to that project I’ve promised you soon).
 
Cheers! 🙂 And “Warm Alex” was my late father’s nicname for me - it is actually the popular name for today’s old calendar feast of “Warm Alex” (my Namesday) since st Alexius the Man of God’s day was usually a warm one (and today it is not).

Alex
Many years 👍👍👍!
 
I never understood how the Rosary works, stupid me 😊
Anyone wants to explain it to me?
Ideally, it is the recitation of decades of Hail Mary’s while meditating on the mysteries of the lives of Christ and His Mother.

There are different ways of saying it and the one that I find most helpful is when we add a “tag” or few words at the end of each Hail Mary that reflects the mystery under consideration. There is also the Scriptural Rosary (and if you Google that, it will come up) where a verse is read before each Hail Mary.

The Hail Mary is the song of the Incarnation of God the Word. In the rosary, it becomes a refrain were we celebrate the mysteries of our salvation through the Divine Incarnation.

Try it - I’m sure you’ll like it! 🙂

Alex
 
I never understood how the Rosary works, stupid me 😊
Anyone wants to explain it to me?
Not sure what you mean by “how it works”. If you mean the mechanics of how to pray it, just google it, or go to a site like thedivinemercy.org. There are no end of sites with instructions.

If you mean something else…I can only speculate, but, it works like any prayer or prayer discipline works. Am I on the right track here?
 
Not sure what you mean by “how it works”. If you mean the mechanics of how to pray it, just google it, or go to a site like thedivinemercy.org. There are no end of sites with instructions.

If you mean something else…I can only speculate, but, it works like any prayer or prayer discipline works. Am I on the right track here?
The mechanics and the whole mysteries thing, I never understood it.
 
The mechanics and the whole mysteries thing, I never understood it.
I don’t have time to provide details, but you could try going here: theholyrosary.org/, or here: rosaryworkshop.com/HISTORY-AlexRoman.html, or here: catholic.com/tracts/the-rosary, or here: catholicity.com/prayer/rosary.html.

*Also, try this book from amazon or others: The Rosary Handbook: A Guide for Newcomers, Old-Timers, and Those in Between amazon.com/Rosary-Handbook-Newcomers-Old-Timers-Between/dp/1593250991/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333135552&sr=1-1.
*

That ought to get you going 👍

Oh yeah–get some beads, and pray, pray, pray!! Sometimes understanding comes later. Sometimes never. Don’t let that stop you!
 
It COULD mean they were high Church Lutherans (especially from Sweden). Such Lutherans from the European continent do have a devotion to the Rosary (as did Martin Luther himself and there are early portraits of him and other Lutheran leaders holding rosaries). There is the Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary and one of its member, Rev. Neville Ward, a Methodist minister, wrote a book on the Rosary, promoting its use and offering meditations on its mysteries entitled: “Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy” - an excellent spiritual read!! In addition, John Wesley himself kept a Rosary on his person, given to him by a Roman Catholic family that lived near him.

Alex
I dunno. We’re of German stock. In any case, I’ve gotten different answers from my family:
“It is a symbol of the Faith”
“To remind me to pray”
“It is what my parents taught me”
“I need all the help I can get”

The last one made me giggle, seeing as it was my Papa (mother’s father) that said this.

Despite my owning Rosaries, I have yet to actually pray the Rosary yet. Perhaps someday. I figure the Theotokos, wonderful mother that she is, understands that I am venturing cautiously, and I only wish to do what it right in God’s eyes. Given that, I’m sure she’ll put up with me not saying a decade for a while.
 
The traditional “rosary” for Byzantine Catholics is the “Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.” It originated in the East some time around the 8th Century, but fell into disuse for some time. It was repopularized by St. Seraphim of Sarov in the 18th Century. It consists of 150 repetitions of the “Angelic Salutation” divided into 15 decades. I don’t know if this is original to the Rule, but St. Seraphim provided a mystery for each decade. Some correspond to the mysteries of the Latin rosary, others do not.

The “Prayer Rule of the Theotokos” is still not very common among Eastern Catholics or Orthodox. But for those Eastern Catholics who do not want to give up their rosary, switching to the “Prayer Rule of the Theotokos” would be a restoration of authentic Eastern practice.

Replacing the rosary with the chotki/Jesus Prayer is not adequate as the spiritual approach to the two is very different. The Jesus Prayer is meant to be “imageless,” whereas the Rule provides mysteries upon which to meditate.
Forgive me for coming late to the party.

Phillip, this is extremely interesting to me.

Being very familiar with the rosary, I found, and still do find praying the Rule of St. Pachomius on the Chotki to be different in a way I could not describe. At first it felt barren, uncomfortable, but your use of the word “Imageless” explains a lot.

I’m wondering if anyone could expand on the word “Imageless”, provide a link, or some other source of information, either spiritual or theological?

Regarding the Rosary, for me it is meditation, and mediation is definitely based on images for me. There is a profound sense of entering into the scene, of being there, of witnessing it, and even sometimes of experiencing it in some small way myself. This is probably why I found the chotki to be so different. I would be interested in learning more about the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos as well and will google it, unless someone has some good info.

One variation of the rosary which I enjoy is according to the method of St. Louis de Montfort, which is to ask for the grace represented by the mystery on that particular decade. For example, when meditating on the Joyful Mysteries, one would pray before the first decade in honor of the Incarnation…

We offer Thee, O Lord Jesus, this first decade in honor of Thine Incarnation in Mary’s womb, and we ask of Thee, through this Mystery and through her intercession, a profound humility. Amen.

We would then pray the rosary as normal, meditating on the Incarnation, and conclude the decade with the following…

May the grace of the Mystery of the Annunciation come down into our souls and make us truly humble. Amen.

Similarly, one would ask for the grace to love poverty when meditating on the birth of Jesus in a stable or the grace to suffer well when meditating on the Crucifixtion.

The best instruction for the rosary I have seen, just to get the mechanics down, is How to Recite the Holy Rosary at New Advent.

-Pax-
-Tim-
 
O God; Whose only begotten Son, by His life, death and resurrection has purchased for us the reward of eternal life. Grant, we beseech Thee, that by meditating on these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary, of The Blessed Virgin Mary; we may*** imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, Through Christ Our Lord. Amen.***

peace
 
Tim, by “imageless” prayer is meant the opposite of the meditation to which you referred. In the spirituality of the Jesus Prayer we are meant to “stand before God with our head in our heart” without images. In other words, we don’t imagine the face of Jesus, we don’t imagine we are standing before the throne of God, etc. Instead we try to empty our minds of all thoughts in order that it might be filled with the Holy Name.

However, this is not the sole form of prayer and spirituality in the East. The Prayer Rule of the Theotokos does contain mysteries upon which to meditate. One usage of the Rule has similar invocations as the ones you mentioned by Louis deMontfort at the beginning and end of each decade.
 
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