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CountrySteve
Guest
is there any Eastern chaplets, or some other kind of devotions besides the chotki(which i love btw) or the Rule of the Theotokos (i love it too 
) thanks God bless
) thanks God bless
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EzraJacob
Guest
I have an appreciation and this fascination of the Byzantine churches. Though I do not know much of their traditions or their actual theology and how they differ from the Roman church, I would though love to go to a Byzantine Church, in communion with Rome of course. I find myself fascinated with Icons and the icon wall in front of their alters. If only I knew of a church I could visit.
That said, since I never been to one and do not know much, would it be okay to use some of their devotions? Or would that be wrong?
I did a search and could only find the “chotki”
That said, since I never been to one and do not know much, would it be okay to use some of their devotions? Or would that be wrong?
I did a search and could only find the “chotki”
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Wesley7
Guest
There is one particular prayer -
'It is truly meet to bless thee, the Theotokos, ever-blessed and most blameless, and Mother of our God, More honorable than the Cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, who without corruption gavest birth to God the Word, the very Theotokos, thee do we magnify.’ . . .
'It is truly meet to bless thee, the Theotokos, ever-blessed and most blameless, and Mother of our God, More honorable than the Cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, who without corruption gavest birth to God the Word, the very Theotokos, thee do we magnify.’ . . .
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ThatOneGuy92
Guest
It is perfectly acceptable to use a prayer of the Eastern rite.
I would recommend looking up an Eastern Catholic parish near you. The Divine Liturgy is a wonderful, heavenly experience. Not only would benefit spiritually, but also in knowledge. You would become more aware of Eastern Catholicism, and you could then spread the knowledge! Sharing is caring
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EzraJacob
Guest
Well there is a Byzantine Church not to far.It is perfectly acceptable to use a prayer of the Eastern rite.
I would recommend looking up an Eastern Catholic parish near you. The Divine Liturgy is a wonderful, heavenly experience. Not only would benefit spiritually, but also in knowledge. You would become more aware of Eastern Catholicism, and you could then spread the knowledge! Sharing is caring
I am pretty sure I want to stay Roman Catholic. But I am drawn to Icons very much. So I am wondering, am I allowed to then kind of mix the spiritualities? As in, stay Roman Catholic in Rite, but steal some stuff from the Byzantine rite, such as the idea of an icon corner.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
You can try. I said I was going to do the same thing, but I find myself now more Eastern than Western. You will also see the same thing with immigrants (which I myself am as well). Do you continue being culturally from your birth country, or do you absorb the culture of your new country? Some people become both, but usually they become isolated from the main culture. And what happens is instead of becoming both, you become neither.
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EzraJacob
Guest
I do not fully follow you brother. Are you saying most likely I would just lose the faith?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Hopefully not! I’m saying that you may not be able to fully live a spiritual life if you do not know where you are. The emphasis of the theology of the West is different from the East. To fully comprehend all that comes from each praxis, you must live the spirituality of the praxis you practice. For example, you can’t take a prayer rope and pray the Jesus Prayer and treat it like the Rosary. While they look the same and the practice on the outside seems the same (you recite a prayer repetitively), the underlying spirituality is different. Therefore if you recite the Jesus Prayer with a prayer rope and practice it with a Western spirituality, you may not gain the full spiritual advantage of the prayer rope! Of course, there is still some spiritual gain because you are praying.
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CountrySteve
Guest
this thread got off topic lol
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Cavaradossi
Guest
A word of caution about using the Jesus Prayer (at least, I assume that is what you are using the chotki for): it is typically advised that you embark on a prayer rule using the Jesus Prayer (which is inherently meditative in nature) under the guidance of a spiritual father; it could be spiritually detrimental if you try it without a father to guide you.
If you are looking for Eastern, devotional-type prayers, you could check out akathist hymns and canons. Many Orthodox prayer books will include at least the Akathist Hymn to the Theotokos and the Akathist Hymn to Jesus Christ. They may also include services like the Small and Great Supplicatory Canons to the Theotokos. I believe that I once read somewhere that JPII was himself quite fond of the Akathist Hymn to the Most Holy Theotokos.
If you are looking for Eastern, devotional-type prayers, you could check out akathist hymns and canons. Many Orthodox prayer books will include at least the Akathist Hymn to the Theotokos and the Akathist Hymn to Jesus Christ. They may also include services like the Small and Great Supplicatory Canons to the Theotokos. I believe that I once read somewhere that JPII was himself quite fond of the Akathist Hymn to the Most Holy Theotokos.
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CountrySteve
Guest
i’ve tried it without a father, how could it do harm?
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Cavaradossi
Guest
The concern is that it could lead you to spiritual delusion (sometimes called ‘prelest’) if you do it without guidance.
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
Cavaradossi, I don’t intend to contradict you here or anything like that, I just want to further nuance what you’ve already said.
Although the Fathers do typically recommend having a spiritual father when embarking on the practice of the Jesus prayer, the later Russian fathers further nuance that by saying a spiritual father is only absolutely necessary when one wishes to practice the various physical techniques spoken of in the Philokalia and Way of the Pilgrim (postures, breathing techniques and the like). Sts. Theophan the Recluse and Ignatius Brianchinanov are both in agreement that, due to the great lack of spiritual leaders in their (and our) day, one can safely practice the Jesus Prayer (and hesychasm when not reduced to the physical techniques) on one’s own. The conditions for doing so would be regular Confession and participation in the Liturgical life of the Church (not just the Divine Liturgy/Mass, but also the cycle of Hours contained in the Horologion/Liturgy of the Hours), reading/studying/meditating upon the Scriptures and the writing of the Fathers (for Westerners wishing to practice the Jesus Prayer I recommend St. John of the Cross as a basic Western “equivalent” to hesychasm, although I know there are differences), and keeping the fasts and feasts of the Church.
To the person who began this thread; for beginners it is generally recommended that you begin praying the Jesus Prayer 300 times per day with focus and attention. However, quantity is not so much the key as quality. The key, as St. Theophan the Recluse rightly says, is to pray “with the mind in the heart.” Perhaps, rather than giving oneself a set number of times to repeat the prayer, it may be best to simply alot oneself a certain space of time, say 10 - 20 minutes per day. For an absolute beginner I wouldn’t recommend anything above 10 minutes for at least a week. It is very difficult to keep one’s attention fixed for that amount of time and could be very frustrating to try anything beyond that at first.
If you are interested in some books I will recommend three to you. First, for general prayers and devotions of the East, find a copy of the new “Publican’s Prayer Book” published by the Melkite Greek Catholic Eparchy of Newton’s publishing house “Sophia.” It is leather bound and costs about $30.00 if memory serves me correctly. It is a wonderful book and is filled with morning and evening prayers, prayers at mealtimes and throughout the day, a couple of different Akathists as well as the Supplicatory Canon to Our Lady and another to one’s Guardian Angel. It also contains the Canon of St. Andrew of Crete sung during the first few weeks of Great Lent, as well as the Paschal Canon sung at Easter. It truly is a remarkable little book and worth much more than the money you’ll pay for it.
Secondly check out the book “The Art of Prayer: An Orthodox Anthology.” This is a collection of quotes from some of the great Eastern Fathers (mostly St. Theophan the Recluse) on the spiritual life in general, with a section dedicated particularly to the Jesus Prayer. It was originally compiled as an aid for those who wished to practice the Jesus Prayer, but could not find a spiritual father to guide them. Again I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I myself refer to it regularly.
Finally check out “The Prayer of Jesus” by St. Ignatius Brianchaninov (I may be misspelling that last name). It is considered the standard introduction to the Jesus Prayer, along with the “Way of the Pilgrim” (which I don’t really recommend to beginners who don’t have a spiritual father because of the author’s focus on the physical and mental techniques).
God bless you in your search and may He draw you ever more deeply into his mercy and love for mankind.
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hazcompat
Guest
Philokalia
be careful, you really should have a spiritual director.
peace
be careful, you really should have a spiritual director.
peace
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ThatOneGuy92
Guest
Just because you wish to stay Roman Catholic does not prohibit you from experiencing a Divine Liturgy; indeed, I would say to experience one makes you more Catholic. For you experience another part of the fullness of the liturgical rites that make up the Catholic family
Yes, you can “steal” some stuff from the Byzantine rite. Just leave a note that says “Thank you”
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Cavaradossi
Guest
Yes, that is very true, what you said about the Jesus Prayer. I think I remember St. Theophan the Recluse also saying that the key, for the beginner, is to take a prayer rule (like doing the Jesus Prayer 300 times, as you have mentioned), and stick exactly to it, doing no more or no less, so as to avoid excessive zeal or slothfulness in prayer. I think I also recall him recommending that the laity also learn to tie their own prayer ropes. There is much value in this school of thought, especially when access to a spiritual father is limited. Of course, when a spiritual father is accessible, I would say that embarking on the path of prayer with his or her advice would probably be the preferable method, but as you said, it’s not absolutely necessary.Cavaradossi, I don’t intend to contradict you here or anything like that, I just want to further nuance what you’ve already said.
Although the Fathers do typically recommend having a spiritual father when embarking on the practice of the Jesus prayer, the later Russian fathers further nuance that by saying a spiritual father is only absolutely necessary when one wishes to practice the various physical techniques spoken of in the Philokalia and Way of the Pilgrim (postures, breathing techniques and the like). Sts. Theophan the Recluse and Ignatius Brianchinanov are both in agreement that, due to the great lack of spiritual leaders in their (and our) day, one can safely practice the Jesus Prayer (and hesychasm when not reduced to the physical techniques) on one’s own. The conditions for doing so would be regular Confession and participation in the Liturgical life of the Church (not just the Divine Liturgy/Mass, but also the cycle of Hours contained in the Horologion/Liturgy of the Hours), reading/studying/meditating upon the Scriptures and the writing of the Fathers (for Westerners wishing to practice the Jesus Prayer I recommend St. John of the Cross as a basic Western “equivalent” to hesychasm, although I know there are differences), and keeping the fasts and feasts of the Church.
To the person who began this thread; for beginners it is generally recommended that you begin praying the Jesus Prayer 300 times per day with focus and attention. However, quantity is not so much the key as quality. The key, as St. Theophan the Recluse rightly says, is to pray “with the mind in the heart.” Perhaps, rather than giving oneself a set number of times to repeat the prayer, it may be best to simply alot oneself a certain space of time, say 10 - 20 minutes per day. For an absolute beginner I wouldn’t recommend anything above 10 minutes for at least a week. It is very difficult to keep one’s attention fixed for that amount of time and could be very frustrating to try anything beyond that at first.
If you are interested in some books I will recommend three to you. First, for general prayers and devotions of the East, find a copy of the new “Publican’s Prayer Book” published by the Melkite Greek Catholic Eparchy of Newton’s publishing house “Sophia.” It is leather bound and costs about $30.00 if memory serves me correctly. It is a wonderful book and is filled with morning and evening prayers, prayers at mealtimes and throughout the day, a couple of different Akathists as well as the Supplicatory Canon to Our Lady and another to one’s Guardian Angel. It also contains the Canon of St. Andrew of Crete sung during the first few weeks of Great Lent, as well as the Paschal Canon sung at Easter. It truly is a remarkable little book and worth much more than the money you’ll pay for it.
Secondly check out the book “The Art of Prayer: An Orthodox Anthology.” This is a collection of quotes from some of the great Eastern Fathers (mostly St. Theophan the Recluse) on the spiritual life in general, with a section dedicated particularly to the Jesus Prayer. It was originally compiled as an aid for those who wished to practice the Jesus Prayer, but could not find a spiritual father to guide them. Again I cannot recommend this book highly enough. I myself refer to it regularly.
Finally check out “The Prayer of Jesus” by St. Ignatius Brianchaninov (I may be misspelling that last name). It is considered the standard introduction to the Jesus Prayer, along with the “Way of the Pilgrim” (which I don’t really recommend to beginners who don’t have a spiritual father because of the author’s focus on the physical and mental techniques).
God bless you in your search and may He draw you ever more deeply into his mercy and love for mankind.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
You are good . . .Just because you wish to stay Roman Catholic does not prohibit you from experiencing a Divine Liturgy; indeed, I would say to experience one makes you more Catholic. For you experience another part of the fullness of the liturgical rites that make up the Catholic family
Yes, you can “steal” some stuff from the Byzantine rite. Just leave a note that says “Thank you”
I once came across a book written by a Swedish Lutheran Bishop who used the Jesus Prayer (forgot the author’s name) and his discussion of it was quite spectacular.
You Lutherans are OK!
Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
The best sampling of Byzantine spirituality is in the Daily Office.
The Dynamic Horologion and Psalter (sic) has a website that takes one through the daily Hours in a very doable fashion. Fr. John Whiteford has a quite amazing English site “Orthodox Liturgical Prayers and Resources.”
The Eastern Church laity tend to pray the Hours, Psalter and other prayers together with the priests and monastics. Private devotions exist, but even the Jesus Prayer is a “Church prayer” with its form established by Church authority and the various ways it can be used to substitute for the psalter (6,000 prayers or 300 for each of the 20 sections into which it is divided, 3,000 prayers (minimum) for the Divine Office).
The Akathists, Canons and Moleben (services of supplication) are all devotional prayers that can be prayed by anyone at anytime (also on Fr. Whiteford’s website). However, they are not “paraliturgical” because they are and can be part of other liturgical services such as Compline, can be used to substitute the Office (seven Canons and Akathists daily) or as part of the East Slavic tradition of the “All Night Akathists” where Akathists are read throughout the night, standing.
St Jonah Atamansky of Odessa (+1924) daily performed the All Night Akathist service and became a great miracle-worker, healing a child from blindness after praying the all night service for nine days straight.
Alex
The Dynamic Horologion and Psalter (sic) has a website that takes one through the daily Hours in a very doable fashion. Fr. John Whiteford has a quite amazing English site “Orthodox Liturgical Prayers and Resources.”
The Eastern Church laity tend to pray the Hours, Psalter and other prayers together with the priests and monastics. Private devotions exist, but even the Jesus Prayer is a “Church prayer” with its form established by Church authority and the various ways it can be used to substitute for the psalter (6,000 prayers or 300 for each of the 20 sections into which it is divided, 3,000 prayers (minimum) for the Divine Office).
The Akathists, Canons and Moleben (services of supplication) are all devotional prayers that can be prayed by anyone at anytime (also on Fr. Whiteford’s website). However, they are not “paraliturgical” because they are and can be part of other liturgical services such as Compline, can be used to substitute the Office (seven Canons and Akathists daily) or as part of the East Slavic tradition of the “All Night Akathists” where Akathists are read throughout the night, standing.
St Jonah Atamansky of Odessa (+1924) daily performed the All Night Akathist service and became a great miracle-worker, healing a child from blindness after praying the all night service for nine days straight.
Alex
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