Byzantine Fasting

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Our parish fasting norms are on the parish calendar. If you move forward to Nov “next” at the bottom of the calendar, you’ll see where we move into the “Phlip’s Fast” for the Nativity of Our Lord on the 15th. I’m sure there are other parishes that have something like this on their web site calendars.

I receive the readings for the day on my email from the Melkite Eparchy of Newton. Look at the very bottom for a Wednesday reading 10/27 says "Abstinence today: We refrain from eating meat and meat products. If, however, you follow the traditional fasting discipline: Fasting today: Fast and Strict abstinence – Refrain from eating until noon, strict abstinence (xerophagy) thereafter. "

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America site shows their fasting norms on their calendar. I see these allow fish during the Phlip’s Fast…

If you have a parish you’re attending I’d follow their norms, modified to your situation with the help of a spiritual father as others have said.,
 
I was reading the DL book I got last night and to my surprise in the first few pages there were the prescriptions for fasting in the UGCC, which days are mandatory and which days are “best effort”. Heheheh, had I seen it there earlier this question would have been unnecessary 😊😊

But thanks to all who replied. Its been very helpful.
 
Vico said:
5Loaves (look how I spelled it!), that is a nice calendar with the icons.
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🙂 Thanks. I’m the worse for typos etc.

It is a nice calendar. Have you seen their pocket planners? I talked with our Fr Dn about maybe ordering some of those, although it seems like most people now are using their cell phone calendars.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I was reading the DL book I got last night and to my surprise in the first few pages there were the prescriptions for fasting in the UGCC, which days are mandatory and which days are “best effort”. Heheheh, had I seen it there earlier this question would have been unnecessary 😊😊

But thanks to all who replied. Its been very helpful.
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Hee hee! Maybe you have a better idea now however of the variation in the fasting norms for different Churches, Eparchies etc.

Enjoy your dairy products while you can 😃
 
5Loaves said:
Hee hee! Maybe you have a better idea now however of the variation in the fasting norms for different Churches, Eparchies etc.

Enjoy your dairy products while you can 😃
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I was going to say I’m not too big on dairy products anyway except ice cream. But I can live a day or two without it. Then I realized that one of the most important dairy intakes of every workday for me is the steamed milk that goes into my double-shot espresso. Would CoffeMate be acceptable? I read in the book that using substitutes (like veggie meats), while techinically not breaking the fast, is against the spirit of the fast. I just don’t want my coffee black but at the same time I need coffee otherwise my head isn’t straight throughout the day at work.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I was going to say I’m not too big on dairy products anyway except ice cream. But I can live a day or two without it. Then I realized that one of the most important dairy intakes of every workday for me is the steamed milk that goes into my double-shot espresso. Would CoffeMate be acceptable? I read in the book that using substitutes (like veggie meats), while techinically not breaking the fast, is against the spirit of the fast. I just don’t want my coffee black but at the same time I need coffee otherwise my head isn’t straight throughout the day at work.
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How could you adulterate a double-shot of espresso with milk, steamed or otherwise! :eek: 😃 (notice my three coffee cups!)

I would agree with the book, it’d be breaking the spirit of the fast. The purpose of fasting isn’t to force us into alternative foods, healthy or otherwise. The purpose of fasting is to demonstrate that, 1) food is good, 2) the Kingdom of God is better, 3) I will forgo the one so as to focus more intensely on the other.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
How could you adulterate a double-shot of espresso with milk, steamed or otherwise! :eek: 😃 (notice my three coffee cups!)

I would agree with the book, it’d be breaking the spirit of the fast. The purpose of fasting isn’t to force us into alternative foods, healthy or otherwise. The purpose of fasting is to demonstrate that, 1) food is good, 2) the Kingdom of God is better, 3) I will forgo the one so as to focus more intensely on the other.
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Good point. Black coffee it is! 😃
 
ConstantineTG said:
I was going to say I’m not too big on dairy products anyway except ice cream. But I can live a day or two without it. Then I realized that one of the most important dairy intakes of every workday for me is the steamed milk that goes into my double-shot espresso. Would CoffeMate be acceptable? I read in the book that using substitutes (like veggie meats), while techinically not breaking the fast, is against the spirit of the fast. I just don’t want my coffee black but at the same time I need coffee otherwise my head isn’t straight throughout the day at work.
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I encourage you to listen to Catherine Alexander’s interview with Father Moses on Fasting I mentioned earlier. 🙂

I’ve listened to all of these interviews many times and continue to come back to them. I think this interview does a great job of giving Byzantine Fasting 101. And I think it’s best done listening also to the interview on Feasting.

FYI on all the interviews with these monks if you click on the “(more info)” it will bring up a list of all the questions Catherine asks in each video. For example in this segment it says"
Catherine Alexander speaks with Father Moses of Holy Resurrection Romanian Catholic Monastery in Newberry Springs, CA about fasting in the church year.
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Questions Asked:
  1. Food is an important part of any culture and the Church shows its understanding of this by putting food into its proper perspective on its calendar of fasts and feasts. Will you explain the Church’s view of food and why we fast?
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  1. The current Eastern Catholic calendars are pretty far from the strictest historical calendars. It isn’t uncommon to find a cradle and a convert clashing over which fasting guidelines are necessary or traditional. What role should the historical calendars play in our personal decisions?
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  1. There are a number of products on the market for vegetarians like soy, rice, oat and almond milk and vegetarian meats made out of mushrooms, grains, beans and soy. Using these products during fasts is very controversial, with people on one side of the debate saying they wouldn’t be able to fast for whatever reason without using them and people on the other side saying these products violate the spirit of the fast. Does the Church have an opinion on using vegetarian substitutes for meat and milk?
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  1. If a person is a perpetual vegetarian, like a monk in the great schema or an individual who has made a life choice to not eat meat, how does that person’s diet change during fasting times?
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  1. Father, you were born with Type 2 Diabetes. Will you please explain how medically necessary diets modify the fasts?
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  1. Another special consideration which I know you have a particular interest in is fasting with children. What advice do you have for parents?
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  1. How can individual Eastern Catholics determine the best diets for themselves and their families during the fasts?
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  1. Some Eastern Catholics are married to people who are not Eastern Catholic or who are not willing or able to follow the strict fasts for other personal reasons. Do you have any advice for those people on how to keep respect and equality in their marriage during the fasts while dealing with this difference?
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  1. What about children, adults living at home or guests? How does fasting change when you’re accepting others’ hospitality?
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  1. What responsibility do those raised in the faith have to learn about fasting and to follow the Church calendar if it wasn’t part of their identity as an Eastern Catholic growing up?
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  1. Does the Church give us guidance on judging the appropriateness of other people’s diets?
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**12) Is there an absolute that all Eastern Catholics must do during the fasts no matter what their life circumstances are?
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  1. What is the most important thing to focus on during a fast?**
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Phillip_Rolfes said:
The purpose of fasting is to demonstrate that, 1) food is good, 2) the Kingdom of God is better, 3) I will forgo the one so as to focus more intensely on the other.
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That is one of the best and most succinct explanations of the Orthodox view of fasting I’ve seen. You know what they say; brevity is the soul of wit.

In Christ
Joe
 
Okay, here’s what the book says for UGCC:

According to the decision of the Episcopal Synods of the Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Church, the minimal prescriptions regarding fasting are the following:
  1. To abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year, except when:
    a. a fest of the Lord or the Mother of God falls on a Friday
    b. during the so-called zahalnytsi, that is, periods when, owing to the nature of that period, we do not fast. These periods are
    i)The period from Christmas to Theophany
    ii)From the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee to the Sunday of the Prodigal Son
    iii)From Pascha to Thomas Sunday
    iv)From Pentecost to the following Sunday (of All Saints)
  2. To abstain from meat and dairy products on the first day of Lent and Good Friday
  3. To abstain from meat products (dairy products may be consumed) - according to local customs - on the following days:
    i)The eve of Christmas and Theophany
    ii)Exaltation of the Cross
    iii)Beheading of Saint John the Baptist
Then the following are “best of their abilities”
Lent - Great Fast
Fast of the Holy Apostles
Dormition Fast
Advent Fast
 
ConstantineTG said:
Okay, here’s what the book says for UGCC:

According to the decision of the Episcopal Synods of the Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Church, the minimal prescriptions regarding fasting are the following:
  1. To abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year, except when:
    a. a fest of the Lord or the Mother of God falls on a Friday
    b. during the so-called zahalnytsi, that is, periods when, owing to the nature of that period, we do not fast. These periods are
    i)The period from Christmas to Theophany
    ii)From the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee to the Sunday of the Prodigal Son
    iii)From Pascha to Thomas Sunday
    iv)From Pentecost to the following Sunday (of All Saints)
  2. To abstain from meat and dairy products on the first day of Lent and Good Friday
  3. To abstain from meat products (dairy products may be consumed) - according to local customs - on the following days:
    i)The eve of Christmas and Theophany
    ii)Exaltation of the Cross
    iii)Beheading of Saint John the Baptist
Then the following are “best of their abilities”
Lent - Great Fast
Fast of the Holy Apostles
Dormition Fast
Advent Fast
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Boy really watered down!! 🤷 Whats up with that?
 
ciero said:
Boy really watered down!! 🤷 Whats up with that?
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The “EC in the US” approach seems to be to set a low baseline and encourage everyone to go above it… while, at least locally, the OCA approach is to set a high bar, and then allow pastors to exempt from it liberally. (Based upon comments from various OCA-member friends, and several articles in the Anchorage Daily News…)

Most of the OCA-members I’ve worked with are FAR more lax about fasting that most of my fellows in the Ruthenian parish…

They do tend to get uncomfortable when, during Phillipova, I’m eating unflavored or ship ramen with kimchee, and they’re eating chicken sandwiches…
 
Aramis said:
The “EC in the US” approach seems to be to set a low baseline and encourage everyone to go above it… while, at least locally, the OCA approach is to set a high bar, and then allow pastors to exempt from it liberally. (Based upon comments from various OCA-member friends, and several articles in the Anchorage Daily News…)

Most of the OCA-members I’ve worked with are FAR more lax about fasting that most of my fellows in the Ruthenian parish…

They do tend to get uncomfortable when, during Phillipova, I’m eating unflavored or ship ramen with kimchee, and they’re eating chicken sandwiches…
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LOL about the ramen…been there done that!!

Once again the Greek Catholic bishops take a Latin (minimalistic) view to fasting by setting the bar low. IMO this shows the people who unimportant the acetical aspect of the faith is. Doing a major disservice to our church once again.
 
ciero said:
LOL about the ramen…been there done that!!

Once again the Greek Catholic bishops take a Latin (minimalistic) view to fasting by setting the bar low. IMO this shows the people who unimportant the acetical aspect of the faith is. Doing a major disservice to our church once again.
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This isn’t true of the Melkite Greek Catholic bishops in the U.S. I can’t speak for the other sui juris Churches.
 
ciero said:
I tseems to be the case for the Ruthenians & Ukrainians, not sure about the Romanians.
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I’m not sure about the Romanians either. I’ll have to ask Bishop John Michael the next time I see him. I suspect that they would be more like the Melkites on this matter, as Bishop John Michael is very Orthodox and seeks to restore the full and authentic Eastern heritage to his Church. 👍 He’s truly an amazing man. I feel very blessed to know him.
 
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