B
bkovacs
Guest
How many do you all have and which ones?. I have the Jordanville, but thinking of getting another to compliment it.
- Status
C
chrisb
Guest
Isn’t the Jordanville an Eastern Orthodox Prayer Book and not a Byzantine Catholic Prayer book?
F
Filioque
Guest
Byzantine Prayer, Byzantine Daily Worship, (by the late Abp. Raya) A couple of Divine Liturgy “Missals” from the Byzantine Seminary, (Ruthenian) My Divine Friend, (Ukranian Catholic) some old paperback Byzantine “Missals” from the Liturgical Press, circa 1960.
I also have (somewhere) Eastern Catholic Worship. Which is an english translation of the ordinary parts of all the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Rites, as they were celebrated circa 1945. The book was Edited by Donald Attwater, a Latin Rite Catholic who was one of the earlier scholars to show an interest in the East, and to write popular books on the subject.
I also have (somewhere) Eastern Catholic Worship. Which is an english translation of the ordinary parts of all the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Rites, as they were celebrated circa 1945. The book was Edited by Donald Attwater, a Latin Rite Catholic who was one of the earlier scholars to show an interest in the East, and to write popular books on the subject.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Publicans Prayer Book from Spohia Press, published in 2008. This is from the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, I love it.
Here is a link. Sophia Press
Here is a link. Sophia Press
B
bkovacs
Guest
Yes it is, but Byzantine Catholics can also use it. It is very good. I don’t base a good Eastern prayer book, by whether it’s Eastern Orthodox or Byzantine Catholic.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
While Byzantine Catholics may use it, the Jordanville Prayer book is of Orthodox production so, technically, it is not a Byzantine Prayer Book.
I have a copy of it somehere though. I prefer the Publican Prayer Book though as the calendar within it is Catholic rather than Orthodox.
A
Aramis
Guest
No, the Jordanville prayer book is very Byzantine. It’s just not Catholic.
The EO are ALL byzantine, just like the Ukrainians of the UGCC are just as Byzantine as the Greeks of the GCC and the Ruthenians are.
The Ruthenian appropriation of the term “Byzantine Catholic Church” is a serious misnomer.
The EO are ALL byzantine, just like the Ukrainians of the UGCC are just as Byzantine as the Greeks of the GCC and the Ruthenians are.
The Ruthenian appropriation of the term “Byzantine Catholic Church” is a serious misnomer.
B
bkovacs
Guest
The Orthodox are of the Byzantine Rite!. They are in communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople and follow the Byzantine expression of faith. How more “Byzantine” can you get. Please let’s not dispute this. This was just a simple question.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Yes, I stand corrected, Orthodox not Catholic, it is very Byzantine.
May I as what the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church should adopt now that they are really no longer ethnicly Ruthenian and are more of a mix of ethnicities today?
A
Aramis
Guest
The Pittsburgh Metropolia should probably be called the American Greek Catholic Church… or retain the term Ruthenian until Rome actually separates the Ruthenian Church of Europe from that of the US…
Now, the full title on the website and in the pewbook was, last I checked, the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh, Sui Iuris.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
There is no connection between the Ruthenian Church in Europe and the Ruthenian Church in the US.
Thats a mouth full not to mention that it only really covers the Archeparchy, what do the other eparchies call themselves?
A
Aramis
Guest
Actally, the Archeparchy isn’t the Metropolitan Church. The Metropolitan Church is the combination of all 3 American eparchies and the archeparchy.
For purposes of canonical enrollment, the European Ruthenians are under the omophor of the American Ruthenian metropolia when in the United States, and American Ruthenians fall under the European Ruthenian Ordinaries when in Europe.
There are some small indications that Europe may get its own Metropolitan Church for the Ruthenians, possibly also including the other non-Ukrainian Slavic-Byzantines who are in Papal Exarchates.
But, for the moment, everything on paper says that they are still part of the same Church, tho operating independently of the Metropolitan Synod.
It’s yet another of those odd Ruthenian issues… but priests can be transferred between the European and American Ruthenian Dioceses with just the Eparchial/Exarchial ordinaries’ permissions.
For purposes of canonical enrollment, the European Ruthenians are under the omophor of the American Ruthenian metropolia when in the United States, and American Ruthenians fall under the European Ruthenian Ordinaries when in Europe.
There are some small indications that Europe may get its own Metropolitan Church for the Ruthenians, possibly also including the other non-Ukrainian Slavic-Byzantines who are in Papal Exarchates.
But, for the moment, everything on paper says that they are still part of the same Church, tho operating independently of the Metropolitan Synod.
It’s yet another of those odd Ruthenian issues… but priests can be transferred between the European and American Ruthenian Dioceses with just the Eparchial/Exarchial ordinaries’ permissions.
5
5Loaves
Guest
Br. David
What do you mean here re the difference in the calendar in each of these?
M
Madaglan
Guest
I have three:
- “Come to Me,” the Carpatho-Russian prayerbook, the prayers of which (in addition to the Divine Liturgy) I find especially useful.
- The Antiochian Prayer book. It’s a small stapled work, and I’ve misplaced it. It has some decent prayers and is easily portable. It comes in different colors, too.
- “We Praise, Bless, and Worship: Daily Prayer for Orthodox Christians.” This book largely contains whole psalms and hymns for morning, noon and evening prayer. It’s all right but probably my least favorite of the three.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Thanks for the correction there. Never really thought of it.
This only would apply to those living in these areas, when traveling one does not leave the jurisdiction of their local ordinary.
I see nothing wrong with this and it really has nothing to do with the subject, at least I do not see how it does.
Ah, I was not aware of this.
Yes, the Jordanville calendar is Orthodox, there are no Catholic saints on it.
M
Madaglan
Guest
Not even the saints from the first millenium?
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
This does not make the calendar the same as those of Cahtolic Churches that are of the Byzantine Rite.Not even the saints from the first millenium?
If you wish to get nit-picky, yes the early sainst are the same, but it is still not a correct Catholic Calendar.
This is also the problem as each of the Catholic Churches of the Byzantine Rite have saints on their calendars that some of the others do not have.
Also the Jordanville Prayer book (can’t recall if it does contain a Typicon but if it does then this stands) has saints that were proclaimed by the Russian Church and are not celebrated as saints within Catholicism.
While I really like the Publican’s Prayer Book, it is of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, and therefore does not match perferctly the Byzantien Catholic Church’s calendar.
As a side note, I use the term “Byzantine Catholic Church” as that what my Church has chosen to use at this time. I know others have issues with it but I agree with my hierarchs that we are not an ethnic body any longer and the use of Ruthenian in our name makes no sense anymore.
A
Aramis
Guest
Each autocephalous church in Orthodoxy maintains its own calendar, and own canon of saints. Some include a few catholic saints, for example, the ACROD just canonized a few Ruthenian bishops of the 20th C… while the Catholic Church has merely beatified them.Not even the saints from the first millenium?
The Catholic Church maintains one canon of saints, but each sui iuris church maintains its own calendar.
For the major holydays, 3 distinct calendars are in use amongst the byzantines: Gregorian, Julian, Revised Julian. Mostly, this moves pascha and nativity about.
C
calthrope
Guest
do these Prayer Books have the FILOQUE…a big divide between Eastern Catholic and Orthodox, is the acceptance of a change in the Nicene Creed, The change was because of Arianism.Rome as the Prime Patrarchate was always recognized.Prime meant what? is a big divide!
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Ummm, no, Pope John Paul II requested that we Byzantine Catholics remove the filoque from the Creed. Every place I have been has done this. The revised Divine Liturgy put out by the Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh, Sui Iuris (nod to Aramis), does not have it.
The Melkite Greek Catholic Church has not used it for a long time.
I have seen it in at least one Ukranian Greek Catholic Church but this was about 5 years ago.
- Status