ByzCatholic and E.Orthodox Limbo

[scapularkid8]

No, I’m not asking for a discussion of Limbo, Purgatory & Celestial Tollbooths…

I am trying to restart the conversation I recently opened in the Liturgy section about my personal consideration of whether to practice as ByzCatholic or become Eastern Orthodox.
I assume the thread was closed because it was poorly placed in the wrong forum by me. If for another reason, I guess we’ll find out soon enough by me making this one.

Some good points we brought up were:
-What is orthodoxy (little O) as defined by the Catholic Church vs the Eastern Orthodox Church?
-What do liturgical and particularly artistic expressions in each tradition (mainly concerning iconography and the ‘level of innovation’ in each rite) have to do with preserving Tradition?
-How can individual believers find the true Church established by the Apostles and following their precise teachings?

 

[Jon_Mallory]

-What do liturgical and particularly artistic expressions in each tradition (mainly concerning iconography and the ‘level of innovation’ in each rite) have to do with preserving Tradition?

Hi Scapularkid8! Might I suggest a few books that I’m reading from esteemed RC authors? I recommend “On the Spirit of the Liturgy” and “The Feast of Faith” by Pope Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI. I also recommend “Liturgy and Personality” and “Trojan Horse in the City of God” by Dr. Dietrich Von Hildebrand, a well respected Catholic philosopher of the 20th century praised by Pope Benedict and seen by some a Doctor of the Church.
Blessings, Jon.

 

[Dorothy]

Hi Scapularkid8! Might I suggest a few books that I’m reading from esteemed RC authors? I recommend “On the Spirit of the Liturgy” and “The Feast of Faith” by Pope Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI. I also recommend “Liturgy and Personality” and “Trojan Horse in the City of God” by Dr. Dietrich Von Hildebrand, a well respected Catholic philosopher of the 20th century praised by Pope Benedict and seen by some a Doctor of the Church.

                                                     Blessings, Jon.

Excellent suggestions! Thank you.

 

[Vico]

No, I’m not asking for a discussion of Limbo, Purgatory & Celestial Tollbooths…

I am trying to restart the conversation I recently opened in the Liturgy section about my personal consideration of whether to practice as ByzCatholic or become Eastern Orthodox.
I assume the thread was closed because it was poorly placed in the wrong forum by me. If for another reason, I guess we’ll find out soon enough by me making this one.

Some good points we brought up were:
-What is orthodoxy (little O) as defined by the Catholic Church vs the Eastern Orthodox Church?
-What do liturgical and particularly artistic expressions in each tradition (mainly concerning iconography and the ‘level of innovation’ in each rite) have to do with preserving Tradition?
-How can individual believers find the true Church established by the Apostles and following their precise teachings?

No, we should not be talking about a switch from Catholicism to Orthodoxy or from Orthodoxy to Catholicism. We have an obligation as a Catholic to express no religious indifference.

 

[scapularkid8]

No, we should not be talking about a switch from Catholicism to Orthodoxy or from Orthodoxy to Catholicism. We have an obligation as a Catholic to express no religious indifference.

On the contrary, this is a calling to find out even more about the truth rather than indifference.

 

[scapularkid8]

Hi Scapularkid8! Might I suggest a few books that I’m reading from esteemed RC authors? I recommend “On the Spirit of the Liturgy” and “The Feast of Faith” by Pope Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI. I also recommend “Liturgy and Personality” and “Trojan Horse in the City of God” by Dr. Dietrich Von Hildebrand, a well respected Catholic philosopher of the 20th century praised by Pope Benedict and seen by some a Doctor of the Church.

                                                     Blessings, Jon.

I will look for all of these. Thank you very much.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

I will look for all of these. Thank you very much.

You’re very welcome

 

[Vico]

On the contrary, this is a calling to find out even more about the truth rather than indifference.

We must assent to the faith as given by the Church so this requires that we do not express religious indifference. Inquiry is possible without expression of religious indifference simply by assenting the the truth perdues in the Catholic Church, and seeking to understand it to the degree that can be.

 

[scapularkid8]

Okay I give up!

 

[Jon_Mallory]

No, I’m not asking for a discussion of Limbo, Purgatory & Celestial Tollbooths…

I am trying to restart the conversation I recently opened in the Liturgy section about my personal consideration of whether to practice as ByzCatholic or become Eastern Orthodox.
I assume the thread was closed because it was poorly placed in the wrong forum by me. If for another reason, I guess we’ll find out soon enough by me making this one.

Some good points we brought up were:
-What is orthodoxy (little O) as defined by the Catholic Church vs the Eastern Orthodox Church?
-What do liturgical and particularly artistic expressions in each tradition (mainly concerning iconography and the ‘level of innovation’ in each rite) have to do with preserving Tradition?
-How can individual believers find the true Church established by the Apostles and following their precise teachings?

Roman Catholic orthodoxy is contained in the catechism of the Catholic Church but you’re a Catholic so you already know that. if you wany to discover the true Church, look for a consistent development of doctrine. One way to go about it is to start from the first council of Nicaea all the way up to Vatican ii. Look for key doctrines that Rome claims developed over time without any change in the essence of their teachings such as papal supremacy, purgatory, etc. Then decide for yourself if Rome’s development of doctrine over the course of history has been logical and without rupture with the teachings that came before.

 

[Rohzek]

No, I’m not asking for a discussion of Limbo, Purgatory & Celestial Tollbooths…

I am trying to restart the conversation I recently opened in the Liturgy section about my personal consideration of whether to practice as ByzCatholic or become Eastern Orthodox.
I assume the thread was closed because it was poorly placed in the wrong forum by me. If for another reason, I guess we’ll find out soon enough by me making this one.

Some good points we brought up were:
-What is orthodoxy (little O) as defined by the Catholic Church vs the Eastern Orthodox Church?
-What do liturgical and particularly artistic expressions in each tradition (mainly concerning iconography and the ‘level of innovation’ in each rite) have to do with preserving Tradition?
-How can individual believers find the true Church established by the Apostles and following their precise teachings?

I’m just going to assume that you already know the Catholic position on these questions, so I will simply give you an Orthodox perspective. Please note that none of these answers I imply are intended to indicate something that Catholicism lacks unless I explicitly say so.

1.) EO view orthodoxy as correct belief and correct practice. That is to say, not only do you have the correct beliefs but you also live them correctly while also worshiping God in the proper reverential manner.

2.) This is a broad one with many positions to hold. In short, the EO tradition of not making statues for veneration is more or less just a historical accident. I am not aware of any relevant principle today that would prohibit their introduction into EO practice.

As for liturgical innovations, EO are extremely conservative with the liturgy (St. John’s and St. Basil’s, etc.). Furthermore EO tend to harp on RC for being too liberal and free with their liturgy. Personally, I don’t have a problem with the various RC liturgies, including the Novus Ordo. Then again, I am perhaps biased due to my Catholic upbringing.

3.) The short answer is through the Holy Spirit, which will guide you through an everlasting theosis.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

As for liturgical innovations, EO are extremely conservative with the liturgy (St. John’s and St. Basil’s, etc.). Furthermore EO tend to harp on RC for being too liberal and free with their liturgy. Personally, I don’t have a problem with the various RC liturgies, including the Novus Ordo. Then again, I am perhaps biased due to my Catholic upbringing.

Don’t forget the rite of St. Gregory the great and the Rite of St. Tikhon!