C.S. Lewis and Catholicism

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Does anybody have a good understanding of Lewis’s view of Catholicism? Dr. Peter Kreeft once sayed that Lewis made a remark to J.R.R. Tolkien on this issue, something like “You couldn’t understand what it’s like to be born in Belfast Ireland” implying that he had cultural bias and couldn’t come to terms with it. This always seemed strange to me because Lewis’s thought is so great that it doesn’t seem likely that he would just willingly accept his protestant bias just because he was born in Belfast. I know he had an abnormal marriage arrangement and thought that it might have something to do with it. What are your thoughts? I’m a huge C.S. Lewis fan, The Abolition of Man was incredible!
 
He was never baptized and lived divorced from the sacraments. According to Church teaching, there is a high probability that he is in hell. Although the church doesn’t actually teach that any specific individual is there.
 
He was never baptized and lived divorced from the sacraments. According to Church teaching, there is a high probability that he is in hell. Although the church doesn’t actually teach that any specific individual is there.
Never baptized? Can you provide a source for that? I’d be pretty amazed if that were true. Doesn’t he have a part in Mere Christianity on Baptismal Regeneration?
 
He was never baptized and lived divorced from the sacraments. According to Church teaching, there is a high probability that he is in hell. Although the church doesn’t actually teach that any specific individual is there.
I would echo Padraig’s request for a source for the claim that C. S. Lewis was never baptized.
In any case, having read the Christian writings of Mr. Lewis, I find it very hard to believe that he was not saved.
 
Yes that was a rather blunt comment. Dostoyevskyfan, I just read the idiot by dostoyevsky and in it prince myshkin lets out a 2-3 page rant against the church. This suprised me because I was excited by the prince’s christ-like character. Do you know why Dostoyevsky disliked the church? He asserted in the book that the Catholic church is basically an extension of the Roman empire and was the source of Socialism in France (at the time) and throughout Europe…Sorry from Diverging from my original question!
 
Protestant or Anglican baptism, although valid, does not bring you into communion with Roman Catholicism, the church established by Jesus Christ (“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.” Matt 16:18), and is thus not the same.

He did not believe in transubstantiation, a doctrine believed unanimously by the early church (see the 66th chapter of Justin Martyr’s apology). Christ himself states, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you” (John 6:53).

He had Roman Catholic friends including JRR Tolkien who most likely explained to him all of the teachings of the church. This only increases culpability, since he had full knowledge of and willingly rejected the doctrines of the church, and by doing so rejected Christ himself. This made him a modern day Judas.

Granted, he may have led many into Roman Catholicism, or increased the faith of those who were already in communion with the mystical body of Christ, but chances are, he led an equal or greater amount into heresy. No Catholic in good conscience can ignore the 2,000 year old church teaching that those who depart in a state of mortal sin do not attain the beatific vision.

That being said, I actually admire his writing and think that many can profit from it. It is also not a charitable act to speculate on the ultimate destination of someone else’s soul. So I will not do that. I actually think the work of Hegel far surpasses anything ever penned by Lewis, and yet he was not in communion with the church either, although in phenominology of spirit, he makes reference to the stations of the cross. Just because someone is brilliant does not mean that their work isn’t dangerous. Take heed. That doesn’t mean you can’t admire their accomplishments.
 
Of course protestant and Anglican baptisms are valid. Read the catechism. As long as the formula is valid, it’s valid.
 
Yes that was a rather blunt comment. Dostoyevskyfan, I just read the idiot by dostoyevsky and in it prince myshkin lets out a 2-3 page rant against the church. This suprised me because I was excited by the prince’s christ-like character. Do you know why Dostoyevsky disliked the church? He asserted in the book that the Catholic church is basically an extension of the Roman empire and was the source of Socialism in France (at the time) and throughout Europe…Sorry from Diverging from my original question!
As you pointed out, off topic. I don’t think it is a valid analogy to compare an artist, or someone who writes fiction, to someone who attempts to educate people about Christianity. The characters in a work of fiction do not necessarily reflect the author’s personal opinion. That being said we can only hope and pray that the eastern churches come back into communion with us like they were at the start of the church. If Dostoyevsky had written something like “Mere Christianity”, I’d be saying essentially the same thing.
 
I wasn’t making any analogy, it was a completly separate question from the C.S. Lewis question. I was actually considering making a thread about dostoevsky before I posted this thread. I just assumed that Prince Myshkin’s views on this were reflective of dostoevsky’s because the Prince is supposed to be saint-like and Dostoyevsky thought that the task of writing a work like the Idiot was almost impossible (he considered the work a failure) because it would be so hard to depict such a perfect character.
 
. . The characters in a work of fiction do not necessarily reflect the author’s personal opinion. . . …
Louis Markos makes the same point in the May-June issue of Touchstone - Polonius’s Lie.
…Perhaps the most egregious error is made by the college student who discovers in a famous line from Hamlet the sacred formula for a happy life. * “This above all; to thine own self be true*.” Alas, many others besides the college student . . .have taken these words to heart as a priceless gem of wisdom from the lips of the divine bard.
But again, they are not spoken by Shakespeare. They are spoken by a pompous, obsequious courtier named Plonius. who tacks them on to the end of a rambling list of cliched and hackneyed proverbs . . .Polonius is by no means a figure through whom Shakespeare would offer good counsel. . . .
 
He was never baptized and lived divorced from the sacraments. According to Church teaching, there is a high probability that he is in hell. Although the church doesn’t actually teach that any specific individual is there.
Are you joking? I mean really? The catechism states that Muslims and Jews can be “saved” and they don’t baptize! :confused:

C.S. Lewis was possibly one of the best theologians/apologists since Aquinas. He donated most of the money he made to charity and he had such a strong faith in God. The Eucharist isn’t what justifies a man, it is what sanctifies him. We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so if Lewis was baptized in the trinitarian formula then he is is probably in purgatory if not heaven! In fact I have even asked for his intercession on occasions where I knew I would have to defend the faith and it worked fantastically! I honestly cannot believe you think there is a high probability he is in hell. That is honestly lunacy. I don’t mean to come off as uncharitable but seriously Lewis was a great, great man whom many Christians should strive to emulate.
 
He was never baptized and lived divorced from the sacraments. According to Church teaching, there is a high probability that he is in hell. Although the church doesn’t actually teach that any specific individual is there.
Are you joking? I mean really? The catechism states that Muslims and Jews can be “saved” and they don’t baptize! :confused:

C.S. Lewis was possibly one of the best theologians/apologists since Aquinas. He donated most of the money he made to charity (anonymously) and he had such a strong faith in God. The Eucharist isn’t what justifies a man, it is what sanctifies him. We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so if Lewis was baptized in the trinitarian formula then he is is probably in purgatory if not heaven! In fact I have even asked for his intercession on occasions where I knew I would have to defend the faith and it worked fantastically! I honestly cannot believe you think there is a high probability he is in hell. That is honestly lunacy. I don’t mean to come off as uncharitable but seriously Lewis was a great, great man whom many Christians should strive to emulate.
 
Are you joking? I mean really? The catechism states that Muslims and Jews can be “saved” and they don’t baptize! :confused:

C.S. Lewis was possibly one of the best theologians/apologists since Aquinas. He donated most of the money he made to charity (anonymously) and he had such a strong faith in God. The Eucharist isn’t what justifies a man, it is what sanctifies him. We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so if Lewis was baptized in the trinitarian formula then he is is probably in purgatory if not heaven! In fact I have even asked for his intercession on occasions where I knew I would have to defend the faith and it worked fantastically! I honestly cannot believe you think there is a high probability he is in hell. That is honestly lunacy. I don’t mean to come off as uncharitable but seriously Lewis was a great, great man whom many Christians should strive to emulate.
Agreed! Dostoevskyfan, are you a Feeneyite (if such still flourish)? If you think it ‘highly probable’ CSL is in hell, why not work on the lower probability and pray him beyond purgatory?
 
I think you guys are missing the point.

A non-catholic christian types “C.S. Lewis Catholicism” into google.
This thread pops up.
They read my opinion, which may be more conservative than most.
After going to the library and browsing this website, they decide to convert and receive all of the sacraments.

Either I’m right or I’m wrong.

Option 1- I’m right. The convert enjoys eternal bliss.
Option 2- I’m wrong. The convert enjoys eternal bliss.

Let’s say they don’t convert.

Either I’m right or I’m wrong.

Option 1 - I’m right. The non-convert dies and descends into “a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent.” (Fatima)

Option 2- I’m wrong. The non-convert enjoys eternal bliss.

Hmmm, let’s just assume I’m right.
 
I think you guys are missing the point.

A non-catholic christian types “C.S. Lewis Catholicism” into google.
This thread pops up.
They read my opinion, which may be more conservative than most.
After going to the library and browsing this website, they decide to convert and receive all of the sacraments.

Either I’m right or I’m wrong.

Option 1- I’m right. The convert enjoys eternal bliss.
Option 2- I’m wrong. The convert enjoys eternal bliss.

Let’s say they don’t convert.

Either I’m right or I’m wrong.

Option 1 - I’m right. The non-convert dies and descends into “a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent.” (Fatima)

Option 2- I’m wrong. The non-convert enjoys eternal bliss.

Hmmm, let’s just assume I’m right.
Ask your priest, I’m fairly certain he would say that you are absolutely wrong. One baptism for the forgiveness of sins, justified by grace through faith and sanctified by our response to the God given grace we have received. Lewis was baptized and believed. His outward works were motivated by charity and love, sent from God. I’m fairly certain he is in purgatory if not heaven by now. He was honestly a great man…again one we should emulate.
 
Does anybody have a good understanding of Lewis’s view of Catholicism? Dr. Peter Kreeft once sayed that Lewis made a remark to J.R.R. Tolkien on this issue, something like “You couldn’t understand what it’s like to be born in Belfast Ireland” implying that he had cultural bias and couldn’t come to terms with it. This always seemed strange to me because Lewis’s thought is so great that it doesn’t seem likely that he would just willingly accept his protestant bias just because he was born in Belfast. I know he had an abnormal marriage arrangement and thought that it might have something to do with it. What are your thoughts? I’m a huge C.S. Lewis fan, The Abolition of Man was incredible!
We are ***all ***culturally conditioned. The reality is that most Catholics are Catholic because they were born Catholic and brought up in a Catholic environment. Ditto for Protestants, Orthodox, Moslems, Buddhists etc.

Lewis was born and raised in Northern Ireland as a Protestant. For someone brought up in that environment, he was very broad minded in his writings. His criticisms of the Catholic Church were few and far between.

Secondly he lived in pre-Vatican II times, dying on the same day as President Kennedy was assassinated, 11 November 1963, right in the middle of Vatican II, his death virtually going unnoticed as a result. So he didn’t have the luxury of a more open Church to think about. Incidentally I don’t think the serially adulterous Kennedy walked into heaven either, Catholic or not, President or otherwise. The law applies to everyone, regardless of rank.

Third he fought in the First World War, and lived through the Second World War, in which Christians of all denominations fought both with and against each other. I suspect that may have had something to do with his intellectual atheism at some time.

Finally, my own Protestant pastor once said to me in his office that he sometimes wondered if Protestants get into heaven. My own view is that they are in the very upper reaches of purgatory, almost heavenly. I’d be laughed out of court by Protestants of course, but I’ve had two experiences which make me wonder, apart from the fact I found from experience he was nearly always right in what he said. About a month after his funeral, I was looking at a photograph of him on the wall of one of his son’s homes, and I had this distinct sense of him having a rather turgid, sweaty time. At the time I was still Protestant, so Purgatory wasn’t in my vocabulary, but I think I was getting an indication that’s where he was.

Secondly a couple of years after he died, he appeared one night and said, “We’re not in heaven. Oh, we’re not suffering any pain, so you don’t have to worry about that. In fact, it’s pretty good around here. But we’re not in heaven.” Then he disappeared. I had a similar experience when my (Baptist) father-in-law died. I’ve never mentioned it to the wife, who is also Baptist, as it’s impossible to prove these things.

I suspect he and CS Lewis are hanging around the Pearly Gates with quite a large crowd. Unfortunately I think they’re going to stay there unless the church reunifies, formally.

That’s my opinion. After all they don’t belong to the Catholic Church and rejected it, whatever their background. In most cases they did not partake of the Lord’s body and blood in the full sense, some blasphemed the Petrine Office, and at the least denied it. Fnally quite a few told unconfessed lies, knowingly or unknowingly, about Catholics and the Catholic Church.

There must be some consideration of these things, in direct contravention to Christ’s own words.
 
JFK was assassinated on November 22, 1963, St. Cecilia’s Day. November 11th is Armistice Day, later renamed Veterans’ Day.
 
JFK was assassinated on November 22, 1963, St. Cecilia’s Day. November 11th is Armistice Day, later renamed Veterans’ Day.
My error. The squirrels must have been getting at my memory nuts. However Lewis died on the same day as Kennedy, and his death was virtually unremarked as a result.
 
Note that C. S. Lewis, John Kennedy and Aldous Huxley all died within minutes of each other. Peter Kreeft wrote an interesting story Between Heaven and Hell .in which they meet and debate beliefs while awaiting judgement . Kennedy is the modernist; Huxley the eastern mystic, and Lewis presents Mere Christianity.
Kennedy: Where the hell are we?
Lewis: I think your wrong about the location. This place just feels too good to be hell.
 
Typo-Lewis died on 22 November, not 11 November. His father once told him, " Never trust a Roman catholic," so he did have the common bias of the Anglo- and that perhaps was part of the reason he was not persuaded by that the Church had the fullness of truth. Of course, this in itself does not doom one to hell! One of his students became a well-known Catholic monk and his last secretary also converted. As apparently has been mentioned, his wife had a previous Christian, and so presumptively valid, marriage but since both parties had emotional-and other- problems if he was around today he probably could have got that marriage annulled in the U.S. As he was one of, if not the greatest, apologetic writers of the twentieth century, we are all in deep trouble if even he couldn’t avoid hell!
 
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