- Status
C
Cross-checking
Guest
Michael:
Hey, no problem. I’ve done the same thing, making a conclusion based on an assumption.
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Brothers & Sisters:
I think this will shed a little light on vs. 13-18:
*Do you want to be counted wise, to build a reputation for wisdom? Here’s what you do: Live well, live wisely, live humbly. It’s the way you live, not the way you talk, that counts. Mean-spirited ambition isn’t wisdom. Boasting that you are wise isn’t wisdom. Twisting the truth to make yourselves sound wise isn’t wisdom. It’s the furthest thing from wisdom—it’s animal cunning, devilish conniving. Whenever you’re trying to look better than others or get the better of others, things fall apart and everyone ends up at the others’ throats.
Real wisdom, God’s wisdom, begins with a holy life and is characterized by getting along with others. It is gentle and reasonable, overflowing with mercy and blessings, not hot one day and cold the next, not two-faced. You can develop a healthy, robust community that lives right with God and enjoy its results only if you do the hard work of getting along with each other, treating each other with dignity and honor.*
James 3:13-18 The Message
I esp. like that second part.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
I think this will shed a little light on vs. 13-18:
*Do you want to be counted wise, to build a reputation for wisdom? Here’s what you do: Live well, live wisely, live humbly. It’s the way you live, not the way you talk, that counts. Mean-spirited ambition isn’t wisdom. Boasting that you are wise isn’t wisdom. Twisting the truth to make yourselves sound wise isn’t wisdom. It’s the furthest thing from wisdom—it’s animal cunning, devilish conniving. Whenever you’re trying to look better than others or get the better of others, things fall apart and everyone ends up at the others’ throats.
Real wisdom, God’s wisdom, begins with a holy life and is characterized by getting along with others. It is gentle and reasonable, overflowing with mercy and blessings, not hot one day and cold the next, not two-faced. You can develop a healthy, robust community that lives right with God and enjoy its results only if you do the hard work of getting along with each other, treating each other with dignity and honor.*
James 3:13-18 The Message
I esp. like that second part.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Brothers & Sisters:
Some useful X-Ref’s for some of the verses:
1: Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.
Deuteronomy 18:15-22
Ezekiel 3:16-21; 33:1-10
2: For we all make many mistakes, and if any one makes no mistakes in what he says he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.
James 1:26-28
5 - 6: So the tongue is a little member and boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by a small fire! And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is an unrighteous world among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the cycle of nature, and set on fire by hell.
Psalm 12: 2-4; 73:7-9
Proverbs 25: 18-28; 16:24-30
Matthew 5:21-24; 12:34-37
Matthew 15:10-20
These are all for tonight - I don’t think I’ve had much in the way of original thoughts lately. But, I’ve realized that if I placed several scriptures that were connected to the Chapter we’re reading, some of you might be able to make some connections.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
Some useful X-Ref’s for some of the verses:
1: Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.
Deuteronomy 18:15-22
Ezekiel 3:16-21; 33:1-10
2: For we all make many mistakes, and if any one makes no mistakes in what he says he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also.
James 1:26-28
5 - 6: So the tongue is a little member and boasts of great things. How great a forest is set ablaze by a small fire! And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is an unrighteous world among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the cycle of nature, and set on fire by hell.
Psalm 12: 2-4; 73:7-9
Proverbs 25: 18-28; 16:24-30
Matthew 5:21-24; 12:34-37
Matthew 15:10-20
These are all for tonight - I don’t think I’ve had much in the way of original thoughts lately. But, I’ve realized that if I placed several scriptures that were connected to the Chapter we’re reading, some of you might be able to make some connections.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Brothers & Sisters:
I wonder if James wasn’t thinking about what St. Paul said about the Body of Christ and the Importance of the Gift of Agape when he wrote about Teachers, their role and the judgment that falls on them when they should either teach falsely or fail to teach the whole Gospel and the whole Faith:
1 Corinthians 12:25-31
*The way God designed our bodies is a model for understanding our lives together as a church: every part dependent on every other part, the parts we mention and the parts we don’t, the parts we see and the parts we don’t. If one part hurts, every other part is involved in the hurt, and in the healing. If one part flourishes, every other part enters into the exuberance.
You are Christ’s body—that’s who you are! You must never forget this. Only as you accept your part of that body does your “part” mean anything. You’re familiar with some of the parts that God has formed in his church, which is his “body”: *
apostles
prophets
teachers
miracle workers
healers
helpers
organizers
those who pray in tongues.
*But it’s obvious by now, isn’t it, that Christ’s church is a complete Body and not a gigantic, unidimensional Part? It’s not all Apostle, not all Prophet, not all Miracle Worker, not all Healer, not all Prayer in Tongues, not all Interpreter of Tongues. And yet some of you keep competing for so-called “important” parts.
But now I want to lay out a far better way for you.*
1 Corinthians 12:25-31 The Message
Read all of 1 Cor 12:19 -13:13.
I think the judgment may cut both ways - The first (the one we know about) for teaching false doctrine and leading the Lord’s lambs astray, and the other (the one we’re not so familiar with) for failing to teach or to fulfill one’s assigned place or “job” in the body of Christ either because of fear of the world or because of envy of the positions others hold in the body of Christ or because we simply “are too busy”.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
I wonder if James wasn’t thinking about what St. Paul said about the Body of Christ and the Importance of the Gift of Agape when he wrote about Teachers, their role and the judgment that falls on them when they should either teach falsely or fail to teach the whole Gospel and the whole Faith:
1 Corinthians 12:25-31
*The way God designed our bodies is a model for understanding our lives together as a church: every part dependent on every other part, the parts we mention and the parts we don’t, the parts we see and the parts we don’t. If one part hurts, every other part is involved in the hurt, and in the healing. If one part flourishes, every other part enters into the exuberance.
You are Christ’s body—that’s who you are! You must never forget this. Only as you accept your part of that body does your “part” mean anything. You’re familiar with some of the parts that God has formed in his church, which is his “body”: *
apostles
prophets
teachers
miracle workers
healers
helpers
organizers
those who pray in tongues.
*But it’s obvious by now, isn’t it, that Christ’s church is a complete Body and not a gigantic, unidimensional Part? It’s not all Apostle, not all Prophet, not all Miracle Worker, not all Healer, not all Prayer in Tongues, not all Interpreter of Tongues. And yet some of you keep competing for so-called “important” parts.
But now I want to lay out a far better way for you.*
1 Corinthians 12:25-31 The Message
Read all of 1 Cor 12:19 -13:13.
I think the judgment may cut both ways - The first (the one we know about) for teaching false doctrine and leading the Lord’s lambs astray, and the other (the one we’re not so familiar with) for failing to teach or to fulfill one’s assigned place or “job” in the body of Christ either because of fear of the world or because of envy of the positions others hold in the body of Christ or because we simply “are too busy”.
Your Brother in Christ, Michael
K
katy
Guest
Unfortunately, the “official” part of any church doesn’t usually act as tho they believe this. It is hard, but I often wish the effort was attempted.
L
lak611
Guest
I would add Matthew 25:29 to the list. Matthew also refers to the responsibilities of those who have been given more.
(DRB) For to every one that hath shall be given, and he shall abound: but from him that hath not, that also which he seemeth to have shall be taken away.
(ESV) For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
(KJV) For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
(MKJV) For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will abound. But from him who has not, even that which he has shall be taken away from him.
(NASB) "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
These verses are in reference to the servants given the talents. The two invested them wisely and were given more, but the lazy servant who buried his in the ground lost his. All of us have a responsibility to use the gifts that God has given us to build up His Kingdom.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Interesting…can you explain what you mean a bit more so I’m sure just what you are saying?
C
Church_Militant
Guest
James, chapter 4
1: What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? Is it not your passions that are at war in your members?
2: You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war. You do not have, because you do not ask.
3: You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.
4: Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
5: Or do you suppose it is in vain that the scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has made to dwell in us”?
6: But he gives more grace; therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
7: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8: Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you men of double mind.
9: Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to dejection.
10: Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.
11: Do not speak evil against one another, brethren. He that speaks evil against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
12: There is one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you that you judge your neighbor?
13: Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and get gain”;
14: whereas you do not know about tomorrow. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
15: Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and we shall do this or that.”
16: As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.
17: Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
1: What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? Is it not your passions that are at war in your members?
2: You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war. You do not have, because you do not ask.
3: You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.
4: Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
5: Or do you suppose it is in vain that the scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has made to dwell in us”?
6: But he gives more grace; therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
7: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8: Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you men of double mind.
9: Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to dejection.
10: Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.
11: Do not speak evil against one another, brethren. He that speaks evil against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
12: There is one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you that you judge your neighbor?
13: Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there and trade and get gain”;
14: whereas you do not know about tomorrow. What is your life? For you are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
15: Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and we shall do this or that.”
16: As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.
17: Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
C
Cross-checking
Guest
I agree with this. I think it really ties together a theme from Jas 3:1 through Jas 4:17.
We need to be very aware of what we teach to others and be sure to be accurate. Because if we teach we will be judged more strictly than those who don’t teach. At the same time we are warned of not going too far the other direction and doing nothing when we see that action must be taken.
This creates a struggle for me. The first causes me to often remain quite and not want to speak out for fear of teaching someone incorrectly. The last part tells me that I must do something when it is required of me. It is realizing that I must do something that has motivated me to read, learn and understand scripture better; and to learn apologetics. This way when I am called to “teach” in a given situation in life I will be prepared to do it properly. All of this leads to one of my favorite verses that I have added to my signature:
1 Pt 3:15-17 15…Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, 16 but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame. 17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that be the will of God, than for doing evil.
We are not all formal teachers but I think at times in our lives we will all be required to teach something; we need to be prepared. I know there is a lot more to all of these verses; this is just one theme that I get from them.
K
katy
Guest
I was thinking that the Bible quotations refer to the importance of all the parts of the body. Then there are remarks I have heard in Protestant churches as to how the pastor is CEO and should get what CEOs do, where we don’t really need to be concerned about the maintenance staff. Or, how the (protestant) bishop should definitely get good health care, beyond what anyone else employed by the church gets. I don’t doubt that there are similar Catholic remarks made, but I come from a Protestant oriented background and haven’t yet had the opportunity to hear them. There is the history of opulence of some Catholic clergy in some places showing a lack of concern for their struggling people. (I know quite the opposite has been true also.) Just thinking of how easy it is for Christians of all kinds to forget about the importance of, say, poor widows or odd looking people who actually have a close relationship with the Lord and are therefore vital parts of the Body.
L
lak611
Guest
James says the same thing you are saying in these verses.
“Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ of glory, with respect of persons.
Jas 2:2 For if there shall come into your assembly a man having a golden ring, in fine apparel; and there shall come in also a poor man in mean attire:
Jas 2:3 And you have respect to him that is clothed with the fine apparel and shall say to him: Sit thou here well: but say to the poor man: Stand thou there, or: Sit under my footstool:
Jas 2:4 Do you not judge within yourselves, and are become judges of unjust thoughts?
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my dearest brethren: Hath not God chosen the poor in this world, rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which God hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 2:6 But you have dishonoured the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you by might? And do not they draw you before the judgment seats?
Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme the good name that is invoked upon you?
Jas 2:8 If then you fulfil the royal law, according to the scriptures: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; you do well.
Jas 2:9 But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, being reproved by the law as transgressors.” (Douay-Rheims Version)
C
Church_Militant
Guest
This problem is as old as human nature and can be documented all the way back through the Bible. St. James gives a good teaching on it…as does the Lord Himself when he told John the Baptist’s disciples, “Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them.” (Luke 7:22)
C
Church_Militant
Guest
I kinda doubt that anyone can argue that this is not a good analysis of what goes on with human beings when they get too wrapped up in the things of this world.
Does verse 4 need to be sent to every professing Catholic politician? Maybe.
I like this verse. It’s like a passionate “I love you” from God. “He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has made to dwell in us”? To me it points up (again) just how much God wants us to be as tight as possible with Him.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
E
Efrain
Guest
James 4:6. But he gives more grace; therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
My intentions is not to start a debate but I am an apologetic by nature and would like to share my reflections on this verse. Contrary to the reformist view of all we need is initial grace (to them there is only one grace) which causes belief with faith as our only necessity for salvation (sola fide). But we recieve more grace because God gives us sanctifying grace when we do charity works in faith. I see the Lord’s grace on us as a continous out pouring in our vessels when we act out our faith by our works. We do not work for the grace but we work in co-operation with grace that has been freely given to us by our demonstration of our faith by our works. Therefore we do works because of our love of God and will demonstrate our love by charity towards our neighbor.
God gives grace to the humble.
James 4:10. Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.
If one is so certain that they will be saved then does that show humilty in our part? If we do what is required of us and leave the justification to the Lord and place our complete trust in Him then don’t we show humility? But if we assume that no matter what we do as long as we believe we are justified then aren’t we showing arrogance in our assumptions?
My intentions is not to start a debate but I am an apologetic by nature and would like to share my reflections on this verse. Contrary to the reformist view of all we need is initial grace (to them there is only one grace) which causes belief with faith as our only necessity for salvation (sola fide). But we recieve more grace because God gives us sanctifying grace when we do charity works in faith. I see the Lord’s grace on us as a continous out pouring in our vessels when we act out our faith by our works. We do not work for the grace but we work in co-operation with grace that has been freely given to us by our demonstration of our faith by our works. Therefore we do works because of our love of God and will demonstrate our love by charity towards our neighbor.
God gives grace to the humble.
James 4:10. Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.
If one is so certain that they will be saved then does that show humilty in our part? If we do what is required of us and leave the justification to the Lord and place our complete trust in Him then don’t we show humility? But if we assume that no matter what we do as long as we believe we are justified then aren’t we showing arrogance in our assumptions?
K
katy
Guest
5: Or do you suppose it is in vain that the scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has made to dwell in us”?
Somehow I don’t remember hearing this verse in the past, altho the rest are familiar to me. It is very comforting and encouraging to hear again in a different way how much God desires us. Why I don’t know, but am grateful.
Somehow I don’t remember hearing this verse in the past, altho the rest are familiar to me. It is very comforting and encouraging to hear again in a different way how much God desires us. Why I don’t know, but am grateful.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
I’m with you sister!
C
Church_Militant
Guest
James, chapter 5
1: Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.
2: Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten.
3: Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days.
4: Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.
5: You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.
6: You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.
7: Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it until it receives the early and the late rain.
8: You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
9: Do not grumble, brethren, against one another, that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the doors.
10: As an example of suffering and patience, brethren, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.
11: Behold, we call those happy who were steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful.
12: But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no be no, that you may not fall under condemnation.
13: Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise.
14: Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
15: and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16: Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
17: Eli’jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth.
18: Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.
19: My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back,
20: let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
1: Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you.
2: Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten.
3: Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days.
4: Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts.
5: You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.
6: You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you.
7: Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it until it receives the early and the late rain.
8: You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
9: Do not grumble, brethren, against one another, that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the doors.
10: As an example of suffering and patience, brethren, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.
11: Behold, we call those happy who were steadfast. You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose of the Lord, how the Lord is compassionate and merciful.
12: But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no be no, that you may not fall under condemnation.
13: Is any one among you suffering? Let him pray. Is any cheerful? Let him sing praise.
14: Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
15: and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16: Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
17: Eli’jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth.
18: Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.
19: My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back,
20: let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
L
lak611
Guest
This clearly shows that Anointing of the Sick and Confession are sacraments of the Church.
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
Of course – as much as some sects would like to deny it.
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