"Cafeteria Catholic" need a definition as to what it means

[Stephen_C]

I have seen this term sidetrack a few threads now. So I though I would give it it’s own thread. So what does it mean? How should we use it?

 

[mrs_abbott]

A “cafeteria Catholic” is someone who picks and choses what they like and want to believe regarding the Catholic Church. They make the church convenient to their liking.

 

[fix]

Several threads on this topic. I say it means that each person decides which teachings are true and which are false. That means each person is the final authority and not the Church. Taken to the final conclusion it means Christ does not speak authoritatively through His Church and it means there is no objective moral truth only moral relativism.

 

[mikew262]

IMO, a “cafeteria Catholic”, is one who belongs to the Catholic Church, but does not agree with and/or follow all of it’s teachings, for whatever reason. While not 100% in synch with the Church on all issues, the Church still most closely matches/meets their spiritual needs.

I feel a significant amount, if not a majority of Catholics, fit this definition to one extreme or another.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Several threads on this topic. I say it means that each person decides which teachings are true and which are false. That means each person is the final authority and not the Church. Taken to the final conclusion it means Christ does not speak authoritatively through His Church and it means there is no objective moral truth only moral relativism.

I’d also say this is based on the belief that truth/morals are relative, not objective, and certainly not Godly. Truth is something to be created by human hands or conjured of up rather than Jesus Himself whom cannot be contradicted.

 

[setter]

IMO, a “cafeteria Catholic”, is one who belongs to the Catholic Church, but does not agree with and/or follow all of it’s teachings, for whatever reason. While not 100% in synch with the Church on all issues, the Church still most closely matches/meets their spiritual needs.

Exactly, for the true “cafeteria Catholic”, the focus is first on “how does this match/meet my ‘spiritual’ needs”, and how this affects their salvation relationship with God and the Church is relegated to second consideration.

I feel a significant amount, if not a majority of Catholics, fit this definition to one extreme or another.

It has always been a hsitorical and biblical reality of the faithful remnant who remain true to the faith, whatever the personal cost.

 

[Stephen_C]

So are we all Cafeteria Catholic’s to some degree? At some point in our walk?
That it is only a bad thing if you are a chronic Cafeteria Catholic?
Or could we say that a Cafeteria Catholic is someone who does not live the faith nor has repentance for not?

 

[fix]

So are we all Cafeteria Catholic’s to some degree? At some point in our walk?
That it is only a bad thing if you are a chronic Cafeteria Catholic?
Or could we say that a Cafeteria Catholic is someone who does not live the faith nor has repentance for not?

If one accepts the Church is the authority why would they be a cafeteria Catholic? They understand that they must submit to Her. They may not like it, or grumble at times, or have a passing doubt, but they obey.

The cafeteria Catholic admits they do not think She is the authority.

 

[Stephen_C]

Ok So a Cafeteria Catholic is Catholic in name only. I.E. to pick and choose is to deny the Church is the authority. Therefore stop being Catholic in the visible Church sense. right? Can we all agree on this?

 

[estesbob]

So are we all Cafeteria Catholic’s to some degree? At some point in our walk?
That it is only a bad thing if you are a chronic Cafeteria Catholic?
Or could we say that a Cafeteria Catholic is someone who does not live the faith nor has repentance for not?

Cafeteria Catholics would like you to beleive that all catholics are cafeteria to some extent or the other. They confuse sin with cafeterianism. For isnatnce it is one thing to miss Mass and repent, quite another to say Mass attendance is not necessary.

 

[mikew262]

Exactly, for the true “cafeteria Catholic”, the focus is first on “how does this match/meet my ‘spiritual’ needs”, and how this affects their salvation relationship with God and the Church is relegated to second consideration.

It has always been a hsitorical and biblical reality of the faithful remnant who remain true to the faith, whatever the personal cost.

Not exactly. IMO, by meeting their spiritual needs, they are satisfied with their salvation relationship with God.

 

[mikew262]

Cafeteria Catholics would like you to beleive that all catholics are cafeteria to some extent or the other.

Maybe not all, but most. Our priest quoted a Boston University study during a homily.

25% are devout Catholics who never question, always obey, come to Church every Sunday and holy day. Cradle or converted.

25% come to Church most of the time, probably a cradle Catholic, have never known anything else, so they attend more out of habit, probably agree with/adhere too most of doctrine, but not all.

25% consider themselves Catholics, but generally only show up for Christmas, Easter, and weddings. Probably born Catholic.

25% are fallen away Catholics who rarely, if ever attend mass.

Obviously, church every Sunday is made up of the top 50%… “Cafeteria” Catholics make up the middle 50% for the most part, maybe some from the bottom 25%.

 

[setter]

Not exactly. IMO, by meeting their spiritual needs, they are satisfied with their salvation relationship with God.

Again, another “me” focus, instead of a God focus, given to self-seerving preference/subjective whims and serving our fallen human nature. One feeling “satisfied with their salvation relationship with God” may very well be a ticket to eternal damnation, not eternal salvation. In objective reality these self-satisfied Catholics need to “get with the program” of God’s standards for justice and mercy, i.e., love.

 

[mikew262]

Again, another “me” focus, instead of a God focus, given to self-seerving preference/subjective whims and serving our fallen human nature. One feeling “satisfied with their salvation relationship with God” may very well be a ticket to eternal damnation, not eternal salvation. In objective reality these self-satisfied Catholics need to “get with the program” of God’s standards for justice and mercy, i.e., love.

More of a “we” focus I would hope. God and the person. Only God can judge the validity of that relationship.

 

[VociMike]

Well, what it doesn’t mean is a sinner, since we’re all sinners.

What it means, I think, is one who refuses to accept the divine authority of the Church in some or all matters where the Church has that divine authority. When they agree with the Church on certain matters, it is more the case, in their minds, that the Church agrees with them in those matters.

So, Church agrees with me, Church is right. Church doesn’t agree with me, Church is wrong. Blast the Church or just ignore her.

As opposed to, Church agrees with me, Church is right. Church doesn’t agree with me, I’m wrong. Find out why the Church teaches what it teaches, and try to submit your own fallible mind to her divinely inspired understanding.

 

[Contarini]

Ok So a Cafeteria Catholic is Catholic in name only. I.E. to pick and choose is to deny the Church is the authority. Therefore stop being Catholic in the visible Church sense. right? Can we all agree on this?

I’m not a Catholic, so my opinion doesn’t count (though one of the reasons I’m not a Catholic is that I don’t want to be a “Cafeteria Catholic,” so perhaps my views are relevant!). But I think the concept is very dubious. I think it’s yet another way in which Catholics indulge in “invisible Church” thinking without admitting it. It gives conservative American Catholics the same “inner ring” thrill that evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants get, without the guilt of schism. In my view the habit of writing off vast numbers of fellow Catholics as “Catholic in name only” is itself a radically un-Catholic attitude. But that’s just one Anglican’s opinion. . . .

As with Protestant debates over the authority of Scripture, there’s a fine line between denying the authority of the Church and questioning just what the Church teaches. Clearly the latest statement from the Vatican can’t simply be equated with binding Church teaching, because such statements have said widely different things over the centuries. Most of the liberal Catholics I know would not say that they are questioning the authority of the Church–they would say that they have a more honest, nuanced, and realistic understanding of how that authority works than the folks on this board. Many of my Catholic friends in the academic world don’t understand why I enjoy talking to the folks who hang out here–they regard these guys as “fundamentalist Catholics” and basically don’t think their views represent mainstream, orthodox Catholicism. I think there’s a lot of liberal snobbery in this attitude. But I’m not sure the attitude of the folks on this board is any better.

Edwin

 

[mrs_abbott]

Maybe not all, but most. Our priest quoted a Boston University study during a homily.

25% are devout Catholics who never question, always obey, come to Church every Sunday and holy day. Cradle or converted.

25% come to Church most of the time, probably a cradle Catholic, have never known anything else, so they attend more out of habit, probably agree with/adhere too most of doctrine, but not all.

25% consider themselves Catholics, but generally only show up for Christmas, Easter, and weddings. Probably born Catholic.

25% are fallen away Catholics who rarely, if ever attend mass.

Obviously, church every Sunday is made up of the top 50%… “Cafeteria” Catholics make up the middle 50% for the most part, maybe some from the bottom 25%.

That’s interesting . . .
I agree with that because it makes sense. :yup:

 

[cheese_sdc]

Ok So a Cafeteria Catholic is Catholic in name only. I.E. to pick and choose is to deny the Church is the authority. Therefore stop being Catholic in the visible Church sense. right? Can we all agree on this?

No. The term cafeteria catholic sets up some humans in judgement of other human’s spiritual worthiness. This is “not a good thing”.

We do not have the discernment, ability, or the right to decide who is "a real Catholic"tm

 

[dessert]

Cafeteria Catholics would like you to beleive that all catholics are cafeteria to some extent or the other. They confuse sin with cafeterianism. For isnatnce it is one thing to miss Mass and repent, quite another to say Mass attendance is not necessary.

We have a choir director who is not a catholic and I hope no one reading knows who I am talking about so I don’t get into trouble with gossiping. He is very gifted and passionet about the hymns, never misses our sundays faithfull to the many cathoolic churches for fill in for music etc. He has written some music to the psalms has a beuuutifullll tenor and can sing suprano says all the prayers with us but does not receive communion with us. I call him a catholic wannabe. Father says that is not nice so I have to be nice to him. He knows which music is special to the fathers heart and plays it, but would like us to sing some new contemp stuff. I think he is getting the blessings at the cafeteria and being fed but not partaking of the real Bread of Life. He acts like he is afraid to get that close to the "priest"as he calls him. He has taught many of us how to sing and is so encouraging and will do anything to teach the children how to sing the cantels but
Patience I guess this one needs ! We have limited amount of people in our choir but he stays and is also a blessing to us and wish he were a catholic maybe he will get a mealticket sometime soon:thumbsup: dsert,return

Jesus is my deliverer and my salvation AMEN

 

[VociMike]

No. The term cafeteria catholic sets up some humans in judgement of other human’s spiritual worthiness. This is “not a good thing”.

We do not have the discernment, ability, or the right to decide who is "a real Catholic"tm

Even if we can’t determine with certainty who is a Cafeteria Catholic, that doesn’t mean the term is useless. After all, we also have the useful term “Christian” even though we cannot with certainty discern whether a particular individual is or is not a Christian.

Also, the thing about many Cafeteria Catholics is that they are not in the least shy about the fact that they deny the authority of the Church. When somebody comes out and tells you that they don’t believe X, you are no longer in a position of having to guess whether or not they believe X.