Cafeteria Catholics are getting it worse than non-Christians

[Brendan]

I appreciate this comment very much. I’ve always thought Jesus took the spirit of the law side over the letter of the law side and it’s one of the things I really love about him.

Then what about Matthew 23:1-3. I would really like to hear your take on it.

Here it is again.

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

\ I also think this is why he warned so often of judging others - even their actions.

But what about all those passages on how to act when someone wrongs you. Does that not mean that there is a right action and a wrong action, and that we may determine which action is right or wrong?

And I would also like to hear YOUR opinion on the actions of Nazis and Klansmen. Are you empowered to judge their actions. Could you point to THOSE actions and categorize them as ‘wrong’. If so, how do you justifiy it by what you just said.

Would you have to ‘walk a mile’ in the moccasins of a Klansman first?

Do you consider yourself to be infallable on that statement, or do you think there is the possibililty that you are in error?

 

[Brendan]

Many of you will choose to read this as an out-and-out rejection of the Magisterium and the teaching authority of the Church. It’s not. But bishops and popes and theologians are people, and people can be wrong.

Yes, I am also a person. Yes, I can be wrong, too.

So basically what you are saying is that:

Papal (and Councillar) Infallibity MAY be wrong (you are not sure because you yourself may be wrong) and that it’s your interpretation of Scripture on the subject vs. the Magisterium’s.

Is that correct?

 

[qui_est_ce]

If Plain Penny is Catholic, then “The Donald” is about to enter a seminary!

:bigyikes:

I really, really don’t mean to be rude and maybe you’re just winking so I shouldn’t say this here - but I don’t really understand why anyone cares what Penny, or anyone else, believes. I see this all the time, the “you’re not Catholic enough - get out!” and I wonder what’s it to you? As long as people aren’t teaching or holding themselves out to be authorities, I don’t see why everyone gets so upset. These are personal struggles. Why cann’t you just pray for the person and give them the benefit of the doubt that they are doing the best they can? I know you feel you have to correct, but you can go that gently, you don’t need a sledge hammer.

What you fail to understand is that this is a forum for people to exchange ideas and have :yup: discussions. The purpose of this thread is discussing Cafeteria Catholics. If you don’t like discussing controversy, this is not the place for you.:nope:

Judging by Penny’s signature and her posts, I think she enjoys these discussions and that’s why she is here. That why I am here.

I struggle with much as well. When I’m on these boards, I am “putting myself out there” and have to be open to judgmental lectures.

I also find it presumptuous of you to insinuate no one here is praying. If you’ll look under the handles of many members here, you’ll see the title “prayer warrior.” This means we have publicly committed to various prayer intentions on this forum.

Peace

 

[Nordar]

I pray for everyone at CAF at daily Mass, even the ones I disagree with

 

[Brendan]

I As long as people aren’t teaching or holding themselves out to be authorities, I don’t see why everyone gets so upset.

Swan,

Are you an authority on what is being judgemental? If not, why are you trying to tell us what is judgemental or not?

Why would it not be a hypocritical ( or illogical in extreme) to judge someone for being judgemental if one held that to be a wrong act.

 

[Swan]

Swan,

Are you an authority on what is being judgemental? If not, why are you trying to tell us what is judgemental or not?

Why would it not be a hypocritical ( or illogical in extreme) to judge someone for being judgemental if one held that to be a wrong act.

Hey, I call 'em as I see 'em. And I can see from the reactions of the folks you’re not judging that they often feel the same way I do. I also get PMs to that effect, so I’m not all alone out here in my opinion. Interestingly, no one has ever commented on my suggestion that there is no need to use a sledge hammer, that undue harshness might cause spiritual damage or why you spend so much time worrying about what others believe. All I ever get is a response like the above saying that I don’t know judgement when I see it. Perhaps I should say “a judgmental attitude” which is what it appears to be, IMO as welll as that of others as mentioned above. To be perfectly upfront and honest with you, I just don’t understand where you’re coming from (clearly, the reverse is true) and I’m not sure why we have this communication gap. Perhaps we are not talking about same thing? Or perhaps we are assuming too much about one another? I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised by some of the posts I’ve seen that prove you can’t stereotype someone by their posts in one thread. In other words, we’re all human. And this is another thing no one every comments on - I’ve repeated my belief that we need to find common ground instead of attacking one another all the time. Without doing this mankind will just continue the hatred and destruction. No wonder Jesus hasn’t come back - we can’t seem to follow the most simple of commandments. Again, this is my opinion only.

This entire episode brings tears to my eyes, literally. Especially this being Holy Saturday and all. I am truly sorry that I feel the need to leave the Church, but I see no other option. I am interested in the Society of Friends/Quakers with whom I seem to agree on pretty much everything. And, thankfully, I found a Friend on this board. I had been agonizing about starting a tread on Friends in the non-Catholic religions section and there one was, like the answer to a prayer (which I think it was). I think I’ve said all I have to say about this, a fact I’m sure will please you. Despite our lack of agreement, I wish you Christ’s peace.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I heard some local radio ad for a church—at first I thought it was a comedy piece.

“Looking for a church without all those silly do’s and don’ts?”



Words fail me.

 

[Nordar]

Hey, I call 'em as I see 'em. And I can see from the reactions of the folks you’re not judging that they often feel the same way I do. I also get PMs to that effect, so I’m not all alone out here in my opinion. Interestingly, no one has ever commented on my suggestion that there is no need to use a sledge hammer, that undue harshness might cause spiritual damage or why you spend so much time worrying about what others believe. All I ever get is a response like the above saying that I don’t know judgement when I see it. Perhaps I should say “a judgmental attitude” which is what it appears to be, IMO as welll as that of others as mentioned above. To be perfectly upfront and honest with you, I just don’t understand where you’re coming from (clearly, the reverse is true) and I’m not sure why we have this communication gap. Perhaps we are not talking about same thing? Or perhaps we are assuming too much about one another? I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised by some of the posts I’ve seen that prove you can’t stereotype someone by their posts in one thread. In other words, we’re all human. And this is another thing no one every comments on - I’ve repeated my belief that we need to find common ground instead of attacking one another all the time. Without doing this mankind will just continue the hatred and destruction. No wonder Jesus hasn’t come back - we can’t seem to follow the most simple of commandments. Again, this is my opinion only.

This is a discussion forum, no one is attacking anyone, ~Discussion means just that discussion, in every discussion you will get people who disagree~. .

 

[Brendan]

Hey, I call 'em as I see 'em.

As does everyone posting. Is there any proof you can offer that your opinion is closer to objective truth than the Church’s?

And I can see from the reactions of the folks you’re not judging that they often feel the same way I do. I also get PMs to that effect, so I’m not all alone out here in my opinion.

Does the number of people who hold a particular opinion determine the truth of the proposition?

Interestingly, no one has ever commented on my suggestion that there is no need to use a sledge hammer, that undue harshness might cause spiritual damage

Are you presenting yourself as the authority on if, in actuality, “sledgehammer” force is being used? Or even if it being used, that it is an inappropriate level of force?

Are you an authority on if spiritual damage is actually being done vs. purgation?

In an earlier post, you mentioned that we should not judge the actions of others, yet you judge our actions, saying that we use ‘slegehammers’ or are harsh? That really seems hypocritical.

How come YOU can judge actions, yet you tell US we cannot?

or why you spend so much time worrying about what others believe.

That one is easy, Christ called us to preach the Gospel to all nations. Do you think it was inappropriate that Peter and Paul spent so much time being concerned about the believes of others?

All I ever get is a response like the above saying that I don’t know judgement when I see it. Perhaps I should say “a judgmental attitude” which is what it appears to be, IMO as welll as that of others as mentioned above.

Do you normally trust appearences? And since you have already said that

To be perfectly upfront and honest with you, I just don’t understand where you’re coming from (clearly, the reverse is true) and I’m not sure why we have this communication gap. Perhaps we are not talking about same thing? Or perhaps we are assuming too much about one another? I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised by some of the posts I’ve seen that prove you can’t stereotype someone by their posts in one thread. In other words, we’re all human.

And this is another thing no one every comments on - I’ve repeated my belief that we need to find common ground instead of attacking one another all the time.

Are you judging that I am attacking? If so, is it now acceptable to judge anothers actions?

Without doing this mankind will just continue the hatred and destruction. No wonder Jesus hasn’t come back - we can’t seem to follow the most simple of commandments. Again, this is my opinion only.

We certainly DO follow the simplest command ‘To love one another’. I think you might misunderstand what ‘Love’ is. Aquinas said it best, that it is the desire for the Greatest Good for the other. The Greatest Good is always Heaven. And that is obtained throught the Church, His Body.

What Love is NOT is misguided fluff. Christ showed Love to the Pharisees when He called them “Whitewashed Tombs” and “Brood of Vipers”. Do you call those Loving words? I certainly do!!

This entire episode brings tears to my eyes, literally. Especially this being Holy Saturday and all. I am truly sorry that I feel the need to leave the Church, but I see no other option. I am interested in the Society of Friends/Quakers with whom I seem to agree on pretty much everything.

That you both believe that the Eucharist is not really and truely Christ Himself. Well, if you don’t belive that, then yes you need to leave the Church to stop profaning the Blessed Sacrament by recieveing what you do not belive to be true.

Despite our lack of agreement, I wish you Christ’s peace.

It is BECAUSE of our lack of agreement that I wish you Christ’s Peace.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Is there any proof you can offer that your opinion is closer to objective truth than the Church’s?

Are you presenting yourself as the authority on if, in actuality, “sledgehammer” force is being used? Or even if it being used, that it is an inappropriate level of force?

Yes, perhaps I’ve missed the sledgehammer forces.

Are you judging that I am attacking? If so, is it now acceptable to judge anothers actions?

We certainly DO follow the simplest command ‘To love one another’. I think you might misunderstand what ‘Love’ is. Aquinas said it best, that it is the desire for the Greatest Good for the other. The Greatest Good is always Heaven. And that is obtained throught the Church, His Body.

What Love is NOT is misguided fluff. Christ showed Love to the Pharisees when He called them “Whitewashed Tombs” and “Brood of Vipers”. Do you call those Loving words? I certainly do!!

That you both believe that the Eucharist is not really and truely Christ Himself. Well, if you don’t belive that, then yes you need to leave the Church to stop profaning the Blessed Sacrament by recieveing what you do not belive to be true.

I wonder why profaning the Eucharist is a “struggle,” yet those who follow the teachings of the Church on the Real Presence should not be offended

It is BECAUSE of our lack of agreement that I wish you Christ’s Peace.

Exactly, Christ’s peace this Holy Saturday