Cafeteria Catholics

[St_Stoli]

A young couple moves into a new neighbourhood. The next morning while they are eating breakfast, the young woman sees her neighbour hanging the wash outside. “That laundry is not very clean; she doesn’t know how to wash correctly. Perhaps she needs better laundry soap.” Her husband looks on, remaining silent. Every time her neighbour hangs her wash to dry, the young woman makes the same comments. A month later, the woman is surprised to see a nice clean wash on the line and says to her husband: "Look, she’s finally learned how to wash correctly. I wonder who taught her this? " The husband replies, “I got up early this morning and cleaned our windows.” And so it is with life… What we see when watching others depends on the clarity of the window through which we look.

 

[kozlosap]

Rather ironic that the criteria set forth by those who wish to use excommunication as a punishment/warning to others in regards to “Cafeteria” Catholics would also led to them being excommunicated as well.

-Ignorance of what excommunication actually is and how it is applied
-Presumption that they, not our shepherds, have the authority/right to not only determine who belongs or does not belong in the Church, but that they also have the authority/right to demand our shepherds to act upon their personal opinions (all of which is a form of disobedience)
-Hypocrisy (or is anyone really going to argue that they understand and have never violated Church teachings?)

:thumbsup:Nuff said

 

[Lapey]

I agree 100%… we must eliminate all people that do not agree with us… LOL

Not at all…but we must teach and share the Word of God with those who disagree with Jesus and His Church.

 

[Flimmy]

I’ve noticed that there are a lot of Catholics that don’t take their faith seriously. They pick and choose what doctrines to believe, and then subscribe to heretical beliefs. These people being in the “Pro-choice” and Gay “Marriage” crowd, in addition to the beliefs that it doesn’t matter what church you go to, it’s okay to skip mass, etc, etc… These kinds of beliefs are held by politicians, the average Joe, and (From what I’ve heard.) A few priests who are still allowed to reside over congregations!

Why don’t we just excommunicate the lot of them; a sort of cleansing of the church? It’s almost like an infection, and a lot of Catholics don’t even deserve the name anymore!

Heretics generally excommunicate themselves. I find it is best to “let them be,” to be taken sort of… physique.

 

[Lapey]

I must disagree with this post. It is not right for you too decide who is and who is not a good Catholic. I am a Celibate Virgin who attends Mass daily. I say my Rosary twice a day and do my best to be a good person and help others. I plan on entering a Monastery within the next several years to devote my life to God. I also believe in Marriage Equality for all. Is that a reason to have me excommunicated? I don’t think so. You should spend more time thinking about how you can devote yourself to God and loving all of his creation instead of judging others.

ceaton, thanks for your ministry and I can appreciate your sentiment, however, to take a public stance in favor of “marriage equality” can and sometimes does bring excommunication. It is considered intrinsically evil, same sex “marriage” that is. To take part directly in an intrinsic evil can and sometimes does automatically separate a Catholic from Mother Church. This is not judgment; this is a last stitch effort to invite a soul back into communion with God and His Church.

Excommunication is not punishment, it is a tool the Church uses to bring a person who has taken steps to separate her/him self with truth.

If you choose to dedicate your life to Christ and His Church, please reconsider the formation your conscience has received on the marriage equality issue, this belief may place your immortal soul in danger.

 

[Abu]

weller2 #8
“Judge not lest ye be judged”.

Unfortunately this is used often without an iota of understanding that it is a major misrepresentation of the teaching of Christ as to the need to judge everything. Hence the virtual acceptance of error and the promulgation of error in faith and morals.

We may not judge motives, intentions, and guilt before God but we are commanded by Christ Himself to judge actions, speech, writing against truth and in this way we can help others by offering truth.

The rule from Christ is:
“Judge not that you be not judged.” (Mt 7:1)

“Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.” (Jn 7:24).

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them” (Mt 7:15, 16).

“Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them.” (Mt 7:19-20).

 

[Abu]

Bjryman #25
We should be very, very careful in defining the difference between dogma and all other teaching when we use that term

We need to understand the modes of teaching on dogma and doctrine.

Thus the three levels of teaching are:

1. **Dogma – infallible **(Canon #750.1) to be believed with the assent of divine and Catholic faith.
2. Doctrine – infallible (Canon #750.2) requires the assent of ecclesial faith, to be “firmly embraced and held”.
   3) Doctrine – non-definitive (non-infallible) and require intellectual assent (“loyal submission of the will and intellect”, Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith. [See the Explanatory Note on Ad Tuendam Fidem by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith]
   [ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFADTU.HTM]](http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFADTU.HTM])

 

[JackieO123]

I must disagree with this post. It is not right for you too decide who is and who is not a good Catholic. I am a Celibate Virgin who attends Mass daily. I say my Rosary twice a day and do my best to be a good person and help others. I plan on entering a Monastery within the next several years to devote my life to God. I also believe in Marriage Equality for all. Is that a reason to have me excommunicated? I don’t think so. You should spend more time thinking about how you can devote yourself to God and loving all of his creation instead of judging others.

…I don’t suggest you join a convent if you believe in same-sex “Marriage.”

 

[Abu]

ceaton92 #35
I also believe in Marriage Equality for all.

A real Catholic is bound to give their assent to all of the teaching of the Church.

Sections 25-31 covers “not irreformable” teaching even for theologians in the Instruction On The Ecclesial Vocation Of The Theologian, (Donum Veritatis) [DV] 1990, even for those who “feel” that they cannot give “intellectual assent,” they have “the duty to remain open to a deeper examination of the question.” (31).

Donum Veritatis completely rules out all dissent:
“32. The Magisterium has drawn attention several times to the serious harm done to the community of the Church by attitudes of general opposition to Church teaching which even come to expression in organized groups. In his apostolic exhortation Paterna cum benevolentia [1974], Paul VI offered a diagnosis of this problem which is still apropos. In particular, he addresses here that public opposition to the Magisterium of the Church also called “dissent”, which must be distinguished from the situation of personal difficulties treated above. The phenomenon of dissent can have diverse forms. Its remote and proximate causes are multiple.”
#36. “The freedom of the act of faith cannot justify a right to dissent.”

There has never been, and is no, “licit dissent” as the acknowledged St John Paul II has confirmed: “It is sometimes claimed that dissent from the Magisterium is totally compatible with being a ‘good Catholic’ and poses no obstacle to the reception of the sacraments. This is a grave error that challenges the teaching office of the bishops of the United States and elsewhere.” [Meeting with US Bishops at Our Lady Queen of Angels Minor Seminary, Los Angeles, Sept 16, 1987].

 

[Abu]

MattofTexas #1
I was just curious as I try to understand the Catholic view of morality, sin, conscience, and ecclesiology. This seemed like kind of a Catch-22 to me, but maybe you can help me understand.

Conscience is the dictate of reason, that is the mind of man passing moral judgments. Conscience is correct when it correctly dictates what is right or wrong, and it is erroneous when it judges falsely right as wrong or wrong as right. An erroneous conscience can be so through laxity, in which case it is vincibly erroneous, but if not through one’s fault it is invincibly erroneous. To be a proper and valid norm of conduct, conscience must be certain and, if possible, correct. A vincibly erroneous conscience must be corrected by diligent study, inquiry, and consultation. Then as we read in section 1793 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “If the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore, work to correct the errors of moral conscience.” The document of the Vatican Council known as *Dignitatis Humanae *at section 14, actually tells one how this is to be accomplished:

“However, in forming their consciences, the faithful must pay careful attention to the sacred and certain teaching of the Church. For the Catholic Church is by the will of Christ the teacher of truth. It is her duty to proclaim and teach with authority the truth which is Christ and, at the same time, to declare and confirm by her authority the principles of the moral order which spring from human nature itself.”

To repeat, conscience is of the intellect. It does not stem from emotions or feelings.

 

[ceaton92]

ceaton, thanks for your ministry and I can appreciate your sentiment, however, to take a public stance in favor of “marriage equality” can and sometimes does bring excommunication. It is considered intrinsically evil, same sex “marriage” that is. To take part directly in an intrinsic evil can and sometimes does automatically separate a Catholic from Mother Church. This is not judgment; this is a last stitch effort to invite a soul back into communion with God and His Church.

Excommunication is not punishment, it is a tool the Church uses to bring a person who has taken steps to separate her/him self with truth.

If you choose to dedicate your life to Christ and His Church, please reconsider the formation your conscience has received on the marriage equality issue, this belief may place your immortal soul in danger.

I very much disagree with you and have had extensive conversations with my Priest about this. I am much more inclined to go with his opinion over yours.

 

[ceaton92]

…I don’t suggest you join a convent if you believe in same-sex “Marriage.”

Who are you to say whether I should join a Monastery or not?

 

[ceaton92]

…I don’t suggest you join a convent if you believe in same-sex “Marriage.”

Many people have a hard time with faith. They question it and need guidance to come back and understand God and the Church. People like you deter and prevent people from coming back. You are angry and seem very malicious towards same-sex people. Try acting like a good person as well as a good Catholic and help bring people back to the Church. Not chase them away.

 

[HMSVictory]

Many people have a hard time with faith. They question it and need guidance to come back and understand God and the Church. People like you deter and prevent people from coming back. You are angry and seem very malicious towards same-sex people. Try acting like a good person as well as a good Catholic and help bring people back to the Church. Not chase them away.

 

[DannyGR]

Many people have a hard time with faith. They question it and need guidance to come back and understand God and the Church. People like you deter and prevent people from coming back. You are angry and seem very malicious towards same-sex people. Try acting like a good person as well as a good Catholic and help bring people back to the Church. Not chase them away.

So he cannot disagree with gay marriage because its a basic Christian/Catholic doctrine, but it has to be because he hates (is vey malicious towards) same sex people? Is that not judging? And allowing them to live in sin is loving and bringing them back to the church?

 

[BioNerd]

And people wonder why the Mormons get so many converts… By the way if you replace “cafeteria catholic” and “Church” with “Jews” and “Germany” you get kind of a Hitler déjà vu. GREAT way to start evangelizing OP.

 

[HMSVictory]

So he cannot disagree with gay marriage because its a basic Christian/Catholic doctrine, but it has to be because he hates (is vey malicious towards) same sex people? Is that not judging? And allowing them to live in sin is loving and bringing them back to the church?

DannyGR: is it just me or do you dislike gays ?

 

[Lapey]

Many people have a hard time with faith. They question it and need guidance to come back and understand God and the Church. People like you deter and prevent people from coming back. You are angry and seem very malicious towards same-sex people. Try acting like a good person as well as a good Catholic and help bring people back to the Church. Not chase them away.

A good charitable loving person spreads truth, like Jesus did with the woman at the well. He did not leave her in her sin, He met her there but lifted her out and told her to sin no more.

Catholics, especially clergy and religious cannot endorse evil. Same sex marriage is intrinsically evil. This is Church dogma that cannot change. I you aspire to be a consecrated religious, you better get ready to understand obedience. Your statement is not obedient.

 

[Lapey]

DannyGR: is it just me or do you dislike gays ?

Just in case you can’t see this, I’ll help you. We hate the sin of homosexual conduct. I love and minister to homosexual people almost daily. You are the one who hates and agitates, you are enjoying your time here a little too much; I hope it ends soon. For the sake of your soul.

 

[HMSVictory]

Just in case you can’t see this, I’ll help you. We hate the sin of homosexual conduct. I love and minister to homosexual people almost daily. You are the one who hates and agitates, you are enjoying your time here a little too much; I hope it ends soon. For the sake of your soul.

I DO NOT NEED OR WANT YOUR CONDISENDING HELP !!! or PRIVATE MESSAGES