Cain and Abel and their sacrifices (for the umpteenth time)

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Thank you, @mythbuster1. I didn’t know that. Is there an OT reference?
 
Leviticus 6 is one place where the grain offering is discussed. There are other places where people make grain or bread or produce (wine, oil) offerings throughout Leviticus and Deuteronomy.


The bread offering
  • is usually seen as representing the work of man
  • may be associated with man’s fall or man’s original sin (as Harry Stotle noted, some people challenge this)
  • is seen as prefiguring the Last Supper where Jesus offered bread and wine
  • the use of other produce items like oil can be seen as representing healing
 
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Hebrew 11:4 says that “By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain…”

So perhaps Abel had faith in God, whereas Cain’s faith was lacking. Just a thought, which I think was already mentioned, but this scripture seems to back that up.

Here’s another Interesting idea… http://messianic-revolution.com/4-1-real-reason-god-rejected-cains-sacrifice/

There seems to be various ideas regarding this question, along with a prevalent idea that this pre-figured blood as the only atonement for sin, a topic we’ve discussed so often on CAF, and not with full agreement among all members.
 
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Yes - CCC # 156 discusses what is termed “natural faith”, or “acquired faith” as opposed to supernatural infused faith, the theological virtue.

I am sorry that this very important distinct difference between natural and supernatural faith is not more widely understood among Catholics! I observe, in conversations, many life-decisions being discerned and acted upon, based on natural faith instinctively - not on the holy faith that is (or ought to be) our rock-foundation of life.
 
Perhaps it’s because Cain’s offering is associated with the Curse:

Gen 3: 17 To the man he said: Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, You shall not eat from it,

Cursed is the ground because of you!
In toil you shall eat its yield
all the days of your life.
18 Thorns and thistles it shall bear for you,
and you shall eat the grass of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you shall eat bread,
Until you return to the ground,
from which you were taken;
For you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.

Whereas, Abel seems to have found a way around the curse. He has found a way to subsist which does not include the tilling of the ground.

This sort of reminds me of the scene where Martha complains that Mary is not helping her when Jesus visits their abode. And Jesus replies, “Mary has chosen the better part and it will not be taken away.” Martha and Cain are doing what they believe is necessary. Abel and Mary do what brings them joy.

But Martha did not react with murderous vindictiveness when her sacrifice was not preferred.
 
Yeah, this is theory 5 from the original post - tilling the soil is associated with the fall of Man, thus bread is associated with sin.

However, as we’ve already discussed, if this was the whole reason Cain’s sacrifice was rejected, as opposed to himself not acting with the proper love of God in his heart, it seems unfair given that Cain worked hard to grow the food, which his entire family including his brother needed to survive in a fallen world given that man at this time didn’t eat meat.

I don’t think in the Mary and Martha story, the Lord totally rejected Martha’s sacrifice either. He was staying in her home. Eventually he (and Martha’s sister Mary) would need some dinner, a clean bed to sleep in, etc. Jesus was simply pointing out that we need to take time from our chores and spend time with the Lord and listen to him. He wasn’t saying chores are bad, and I don’t think God is saying tilling the soil is bad. Both things have to be done because of the Fall - if man hadn’t fallen we wouldn’t need to do any chores, there would be no labor, suffering, pain, dirt etc. If they are done with love and giving God his proper place then God looks favorably on it. Otherwise no.
 
The CCC seems to present supernatural and natural faith as being complementary, while you point to the contrast between them. That was what I meant by a slight difference of emphasis.

154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Yeah, this is theory 5 from the original post - tilling the soil is associated with the fall of Man, thus bread is associated with sin.
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That’s not what I was implying. I’ll elaborate below.
However, as we’ve already discussed, if this was the whole reason Cain’s sacrifice was rejected, as opposed to himself not acting with the proper love of God in his heart, it seems unfair given that Cain worked hard to grow the food, which his entire family including his brother needed to survive in a fallen world given that man at this time didn’t eat meat.
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Well, we’re both speculating. I’m saying that Cain’s sacrifice was not offered with the proper love of God in his heart, because Cain felt that he had to do his work out of duty, rather than joy. In other words, his offering was out of duty not out of an excess of generousity and gratefulness.
I don’t think in the Mary and Martha story, the Lord totally rejected Martha’s sacrifice either. He was staying in her home. Eventually he (and Martha’s sister Mary) would need some dinner, a clean bed to sleep in, etc. Jesus was simply pointing out that we need to take time from our chores and spend time with the Lord and listen to him. He wasn’t saying chores are bad, and I don’t think God is saying tilling the soil is bad. Both things have to be done because of the Fall - if man hadn’t fallen we wouldn’t need to do any chores, there would be no labor, suffering, pain, dirt etc. If they are done with love and giving God his proper place then God looks favorably on it. Otherwise no.
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But Jesus’ response to Martha’s complaint was basically a reprimand. He said, “You are wrong. You have chosen to do these chores because you feel that you are forced to do them. The dilemma you are suffering is of your own making. Mary is doing the right thing.”

Luke 10:38 As they continued their journey he entered a village where a woman whose name was Martha welcomed him. 39 She had a sister named Mary [who] sat beside the Lord at his feet listening to him speak. 40 Martha, burdened with much serving, came to him and said, “Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me by myself to do the serving? Tell her to help me.” 41 The Lord said to her in reply, “Martha, Martha, you are anxious and worried about many things. 42 There is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part and it will not be taken from her.”
 
I have never seen Jesus’ statement to Martha as a “reprimand”. She was his friend and had a huge amount of faith in him. I have always read it as a friendly conversation. Like many parts of Scripture, it can be read in different ways, and the same with the Cain story.

And yes, this is all speculation. I think God’s word is left open like this to give us new angles and insights to ponder and in so doing come to a greater understanding of God, rather than having it all be spelled out and very obvious with only one “right” answer.
 
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Just another thought.

Gen 4:3In the course of time Cain brought an offering to the Lord from the fruit of the ground, 4 while Abel, for his part, brought the fatty portion of the firstlings of his flock.

An inkling that Cain’s offering was reluctant, is that Cain merely brought sheaves. Apparently, he didn’t take the time to process them in any manner nor to make them more acceptable.

While, Abel brought “the fatty portions” of the sheep. Thus, Abel went to the trouble of slaughtering his first lambs and offering the choicest parts of the lambs. This shows that Abel’s offering was made with enthusiasm and generiousity.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Yeah, that’s theory #2 from the original post.
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Perhaps. But I’m tying this to what I said earlier. That Cain’s offering was not made out of a proper love for God. In other words, this should be added to what I said earlier in order to fully understand that idea that Abel’s offering was out of gratitude and Cain’s was made reluctantly out of a sense of duty not out of generousity.
 
More thoughts. When I mentioned Mary and Martha in comparison to this situation, perhaps another problem with Martha’s offering or sacrifice is that she was doing what she wanted, rather than what Christ wanted.

And this translates to Cain and Abel’s situation, as well. Perhaps Cain did as he wanted, but not as God wanted.
 
I think you may be mishearing this sentence:
154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act.

This is saying that the act of believing is a human act, it is not something that God does in the person. God enables the act, by His divine gift of actual supernatural grace, which acts upon the supernatural theological infused virtue Faith, all given to the human person. But the human person is the one who believes, the one who does the believing. God the Holy Spirit does not do the believing; He empowers and makes possible the human act, but the act is by the man, and thus is meritorious for the man.

The “believing” (same word, but very different in essence and in consequence) that results from natural acquired faith, by contrast, is also a human act but is the result not of the supernatural gifts of grace, but is the result of human nature itself, having the ability to reason and to will and to remember. All these natural attributes of human nature can result in concluding, in knowing about God, and calling this (with the willed decision to follow the implications of this “knowing about” God), “faith”. Such “faith” is acquired by human learning and reasoning. This is a “work” of man - and is not salvific - BUT it can be a bridge for the human acceptance and embrace of God’s gift of supernatural graces and supernatural (and salvific) faith. Thus Paul wrote,
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—
Eph 2:9 not because of works, lest any man should boast.

Thus there is “believing” and then there is believing. It is crucially important to know the difference.

In supernatural infused faith, it is God revealing within the human person. God first reveals Himself: God revealing God - the person can “see”… YES! There IS GOD! I believe in God!
Then, God can reveal more of Himself…, inviting the man more and more into His beatitude.

A theologian can be very knowledgeable about God and His attributes; he may or may not know Him.
 
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