Cain and Abel.

[Nelka]

Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel.
Cain kills Abel and God sends him away.
Cain says other people will kill him.
Who are these other people?

13 Cain then said to Yahweh, ‘My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Look, today you drive me from the surface of the earth. I must hide from you, and be a restless wanderer on earth. Why, whoever comes across me will kill me!’
15 ‘Very well, then,’ Yahweh replied, ‘whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.’ So Yahweh put a mark on Cain, so that no one coming across him would kill him.
16 Cain left Yahweh’s presence and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

 

[Robbinson]

Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel.
Cain kills Abel and God sends him away.
Cain says other people will kill him.
Who are these other people?

Brothers and sisters our cousins. (e.g, Adam and Eve’s other children or children of
Cain and/or Able or of their brothers and sisters). The bible does not record the birth of every person who lived.

13 Cain then said to Yahweh, ‘My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Look, today you drive me from the surface of the earth. I must hide from you, and be a restless wanderer on earth. Why, whoever comes across me will kill me!’
15 ‘Very well, then,’ Yahweh replied, ‘whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.’ So Yahweh put a mark on Cain, so that no one coming across him would kill him.
16 Cain left Yahweh’s presence and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Showing God’s mercy - the Mosaic Law (eye for an eye) does not come until much later - even then, there would be a ‘city of refuge’ for one who commited manslaughter (as opposed to pre-meditated murder).

Blessings

Brian

 

[AlanFromWichita]

This is something that’s bothered me for a long time. When did it become taboo to marry one’s brother or sister? Isn’t that what had to happen, if Genesis is to be taken literally?

 

[bluemary]

Good question. I’m not exactly sure of when that would have taken place either. But yes, you are right. In the beginning there was nothing wrong with intermarriage. You must remember that God can do anything and if he so choose to bring healthy children from a marriage of brother and sister, cousins, etc then He could do it.

After the planet was well enough habitated then it was no longer necessary and for the health of the people intermarriages were probably made taboo. As a mortal I could think of a slew of reason that this would be good for the spread of civilization, but of course, I am not God and I’m sure that not only was His timing perfect, but His reasons as well.

I too, would like to hear from someone that may have studied when this started to take place.

Did people truly live longer as written in the Old Testament, or was it only written that way because the time given a year was a shorter period than what our current calendars count as a year? Anyone?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Did people truly live longer as written in the Old Testament, or was it only written that way because the time given a year was a shorter period than what our current calendars count as a year? Anyone?

I don’t know. My kids were taught in their fairly conservative Catholic high school that Genesis and Revelation are not to be interpreted literally. If that’s the case, I do not know the specifics of how, then, we are to interpret them.

Alan

 

[Robbinson]

Good question. I’m not exactly sure of when that would have taken place either. But yes, you are right. In the beginning there was nothing wrong with intermarriage. You must remember that God can do anything and if he so choose to bring healthy children from a marriage of brother and sister, cousins, etc then He could do it.

After the planet was well enough habitated then it was no longer necessary and for the health of the people intermarriages were probably made taboo. As a mortal I could think of a slew of reason that this would be good for the spread of civilization, but of course, I am not God and I’m sure that not only was His timing perfect, but His reasons as well.

I too, would like to hear from someone that may have studied when this started to take place.

Did people truly live longer as written in the Old Testament, or was it only written that way because the time given a year was a shorter period than what our current calendars count as a year? Anyone?

Its part of the mosaic law (laws forbidding intermarraige), set forth in Leviticus - that was given at Mt Sinai (that’s several thousand years after Adam and Eve).

As to literal reading of the bible, some take it literally (which is certainly consistent with Catholic doctrine), some take various passages metephorically - on that re: creation of Adam, for example, the Church expressly endorses a literal interpretation or one that includes God directed evolution provided one believes that Adam was the first man with a soul created by God.

Blessings,

Biran

 

[buffalo]

I don’t know. My kids were taught in their fairly conservative Catholic high school that Genesis and Revelation are not to be interpreted literally. If that’s the case, I do not know the specifics of how, then, we are to interpret them.

Alan

We are to interpret them as the Church has since the beginning.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Please tell me where I can find these “church interpretations.”

I assumed the priests and lay teachers alike have some reason for what they say, and I know a lot of Protestants staunchly upheld the literal reading.

If they are teaching our kids something against Catholic doctrine, I’d like to have some references before talking to the school about it.

TIA,
Alan

 

[Robbinson]

Please tell me where I can find these “church interpretations.”

I assumed the priests and lay teachers alike have some reason for what they say, and I know a lot of Protestants staunchly upheld the literal reading.

If they are teaching our kids something against Catholic doctrine, I’d like to have some references before talking to the school about it.

TIA,
Alan

Hi Alan

Take a look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church - CCC, there are number of entries regarding scripture and interpretation, including the one I mentioned re: the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis.

Regards,

Brian

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Hi Alan

Take a look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church - CCC, there are number of entries regarding scripture and interpretation, including the one I mentioned re: the story of Adam and Eve in Genesis.

Regards,

Brian

Thank you. I checked around some in the CCC looking for interpretations and found an interesting nugget
CCC 115:

According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral, and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

It is unclear from this particular reference (CCC 115) whether both “senses” have to be present in each part of each book.

Hmmmm… … guess I’ll keep checking.

 

[Nelka]

I don’t know. My kids were taught in their fairly conservative Catholic high school that Genesis and Revelation are not to be interpreted literally. If that’s the case, I do not know the specifics of how, then, we are to interpret them.

Alan

If you decide or teach your children not to believe Genesis and Revelation literally, soon this will apply to other books too. It will end with questions on whether Jesus really died for us. Do not spread doubt.

Why can’t somebody live for 900+ years if God decides so?

My original question was in case I missed something as I have not read the whole of the Old Testament.

What Jesus says, I believe.
What God says, I believe.
Doubt is spread by satan.

If you begin to disbelieve the Bible, you disbelieve God and therefore Jesus too.

Revelation will happen, have faith in Jesus and be ready.

I hope I haven’t offended anybody, it is just my opinion as a Catholic.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

If you decide or teach your children not to believe Genesis and Revelation literally, soon this will apply to other books too. It will end with questions on whether Jesus really died for us. Do not spread doubt.

Why can’t somebody live for 900+ years if God decides so?

My original question was in case I missed something as I have not read the whole of the Old Testament.

What Jesus says, I believe.
What God says, I believe.
Doubt is spread by satan.

If you begin to disbelieve the Bible, you disbelieve God and therefore Jesus too.

Revelation will happen, have faith in Jesus and be ready.

I hope I haven’t offended anybody, it is just my opinion as a Catholic.

No offense, but here I am about to go against academia here. These people are entrenched. If I say that they are wrong in their Catholic teachings because some people on an Internet forum told me they are wrong, it will not be pretty. If I went and said, “look here, paragraph XXX in the CCC says Genesis is literal,” then maybe I’d have a case.

That’s why I’m asking for help in finding references for this. It the church “teaches” it then where can we find it? Everything’s on the Internet these days, right? Just have to find it…

Alan

 

[Nelka]

No offense, but here I am about to go against academia here. These people are entrenched. If I say that they are wrong in their Catholic teachings because some people on an Internet forum told me they are wrong, it will not be pretty. If I went and said, “look here, paragraph XXX in the CCC says Genesis is literal,” then maybe I’d have a case.

That’s why I’m asking for help in finding references for this. It the church “teaches” it then where can we find it? Everything’s on the Internet these days, right? Just have to find it…

Alan

I may have missed something, please could you tell me exactly what you are looking for and I will attempt to locate it for you.

 

[buffalo]

Thank you. I checked around some in the CCC looking for interpretations and found an interesting nugget

It is unclear from this particular reference (CCC 115) whether both “senses” have to be present in each part of each book.

Hmmmm… … guess I’ll keep checking.

Why did you leave out the rest?

[116](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/116.htm’) The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83
[117](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/117.htm’) The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86

118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses: The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87 [119](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/119.htm’) "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgment. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88

But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.89

 

[buffalo]

No offense, but here I am about to go against academia here. These people are entrenched. If I say that they are wrong in their Catholic teachings because some people on an Internet forum told me they are wrong, it will not be pretty. If I went and said, “look here, paragraph XXX in the CCC says Genesis is literal,” then maybe I’d have a case.

That’s why I’m asking for help in finding references for this. It the church “teaches” it then where can we find it? Everything’s on the Internet these days, right? Just have to find it…

Alan

Look at the ECF’s

 

[Robbinson]

here is a track from Catholic Answers on Bible Interpretation

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101bt.asp

 

[MrsWendyW]

Here’s my opinion. Adam & Eve were created to live forever. Not until sin entered the picture did that change. I believe people lived longer then because they were created to live forever. The were genetically designed to live a looooong time. Once sin entered the picture, it started to affect our souls which in turn affected our bodies, causing them to not live as long. This would also affect marrying siblings or cousins. There would not have been the genetic defects that there are today. The world has continued to decline since. Thus the reason we do not live as long as Old Testament people. Of course now we try to play God by coming up with things to extend our life, but we will never come close to the perfection God intended when He created the first humans.

 

[grannymh]

Its part of the mosaic law (laws forbidding intermarraige), set forth in Leviticus - that was given at Mt Sinai (that’s several thousand years after Adam and Eve).

As to literal reading of the bible, some take it literally (which is certainly consistent with Catholic doctrine), some take various passages metephorically - on that re: creation of Adam, for example, the Church expressly endorses a literal interpretation or one that includes God directed evolution provided one believes that Adam was the first man with a soul created by God.

Blessings,

Biran

What is also mandated for Catholics is belief in doctrines regarding the real, two, sole parents of the human species, known as Adam and Eve.

Blessings,
granny

Basic Catholic teaching regarding Adam and Eve is found in the
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put the word paragraph and its number in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Entering topics, like Adam, is also very useful.

When you enter a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then click on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 you will see the following under the paragraph:

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